Should the Big Ten expand? What does it all mean?
The Big Ten announced this week that it will explore adding a twelfth institution. Some thoughts . . .
Does it seem a little off-key that Joe Paterno is leading the charge for Big Ten expansion, so that the conference can have a championship game? If it weren’t for Penn State, there would still be ten teams, and re-aligning into divisions to set up a championship would be simple. I know times—and the competitive landscape—have changed, but I’m just saying.
I’ve also heard that, as a secondary motivation, Penn State wants an eastern rival located closer to State College, PA—thus the talk of Pitt and, to a lesser extent, Cincinnati and Syracuse. (And, really, this would have to be Pitt or Cincy because, let’s face it, Syracuse would be more of a punching bag than a football rival for Penn State. And yes, I also know that George Perles dreamed that Michigan State would become Penn State’s signature rivalry, and I’m also aware of the final scores in the MSU-PSU games over the last couple of years.) This one is harder to buy. It’s not like Penn State didn’t know the lay of the land when it signed on with the Big Ten 20 years ago—this includes Paterno, who has been coaching in Happy Valley since MSU was the Big Ten’s premier program in the ‘60s.
But the first point has merit—the Big Ten does disappear for several weeks during the climax of college football season, as all the other conferences have their championship games. Clearly there would be advantages to expansion for the Big Ten.
Two questions about potential expansion:
And 2) Who joins? The criteria for expansion seem (according to media speculation, which is all we have to go on) to be geography; access to media markets; and schools who match the Big Ten’s profile historically, academically and athletically.
Once you’ve filtered the search that way, it seems like the popular strategy for identifying candidates is to look at a map and pick out good programs either within or near the current Big Ten footprint. Looking west, you get Mizzou and ISU. (I like Mizzou much better than Iowa State as a potential addition. The main point I’ve seen in the Cyclones’ favor is that ISU is a land-grant university like Michigan State and Penn State. Is this really a driving consideration?)
It’s interesting to hear that Big 12 schools like Mizzou and Iowa State are candidates, at least according to the media, not to mention the Big East schools—Syracuse, Cincinnati, Pitt, et al. Is the Big Ten that much of a step up? It would surprise me, for instance, to hear that a mid-level Big 12 football or basketball coach would jump from one of those jobs to a mid-level Big Ten job.
So is the Big Ten greater than the sum of its parts? Maybe, and if so the key might be the conference’s dominance in key media markets—Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc. The Big 12’s only equivalent population centers are in Texas—not counting St. Louis and Kansas City. The fact that Mizzou’s addition would bring the latter two markets into Big Ten country (Columbia is halfway between St. Louis and KC) is a serious point in the Tigers’ favor as a Big Ten candidate.
(Also, a side note . . . Ok, so we’re potentially going to take Mizzou away from the Big 12, leaving that conference with eleven teams while we move to a dozen? But we’ll still be the Big Ten? Clearly the smart thing would be to trade conference names and logos as part of this process. I’m willing to add Shon Morris from the BTN if that sweetens the deal. And maybe we can get the Diamondbacks to throw in a prospect or two.)
Looking east you have the Big East teams. Syracuse is a long way away and not close enough to New York City to lay much claim on that market. Pitt and Cincinnati are closer but uninspiring. It’s no wonder this conversation often stalemates with Notre Dame, which is perfectly located in the heart of Big Ten country and has the perfect profile—academics, athletics, tradition, endowment, everything you could ask for in a Big Ten addition. And the Irish already fill out a large portion of their football schedule with Big Ten rivalries.
So who do you add? I say you beg ND—as utterly distasteful as that would be—followed by Missouri, followed by Pittsburgh. Followed by Baker College of Owosso.
One other point: This push to expand seems to be driven completely by football. And it seems to me that one of the Big Ten’s strengths is its balance between football and basketball. The SEC may be the country’s best football conference, but offers only Kentucky (and sometimes Florida) as major hoops powers. The ACC is usually the best basketball league, but since the decline of Florida State it hasn’t been dominant in football (with apologies to some good Va. Tech teams). The Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 10 seem to be more balanced. So why aren’t we hearing from more basketball types as part of the expansion debate? (Some have weighed in.) Would an extra team help or hurt in hoops?
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Taking the speculative energy up another level
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Dec 17, 2009 10:59 AM CST reply actions
Alternate Divisions
"here"http://www.rivalryesq.com/2009/12/15/1201552/big-ten-expansion-the-chadnudj-plan
MSU in a division with Michigan, Wiscy, Iowa, Minnesota and NU. Mizzou joins the rest in the other division. Everyone gets a protected rivalry in the other division.
I like Mizzou more than any other candidate.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Protected Rivalry
that is the key to making the divisions work. No matter how you divide them up, it won’t be perfect. That’s where the protected rivalry comes into play.
My initial objection
to this is that you’d go two years without playing one team in the other division.
But I guess we do that right now with two teams.
So maybe that works.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Dec 17, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Divisional Alignment
Why do they have to be done by geography? Why not have something like the ACC, have a Great Lakes Division, and a Midwest Division. Split the teams up evenly, scUM and OSU in the same division, and PSU and MSU in the same division. Why not?
Pitt
would be my vote. I would love to have Cincy join but they have terrible training facilites that would put them a big disadvantage. Pitt would be a nice rival for Penn St.. b/c right now it seems the only real rival they have is playin MSU last game of the season. Pitt would give Penn St a nice in state rival. I think competitve wise that Pitt makes the most sense other than Cincy. Pitt and Cincy both have solid football and basketball programs.
by LionsPistonsFan on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 PM CST reply actions
I don't really like it from a Bball perspective
I’d be OK with adding an additional team, but as far as basketball goes I’m firmly for the home-and-away round robin PAC 10 model for picking the league champion. Presumably adding an additional team would put us one step farther away from that ideal. However, since we currently don’t have that ideal (the ship has sailed) I don’t object strenously to adding one more team.
I don’t see why Mizzou would leave the Big 12, unless they don’t have a natural rival in that conference and would rather make the Illinois game mean something. Pitt makes more sense as the Big 10, at least in football, is a step up revenue and profile wise from the Big East. Cincy does not have nearly the facilities or academics to be a member.
Mizzou
Their only major rival in the Big XII is Kansas. They’re unhappy with how Texas-centric the conference is and that there is uneven revenue sharing. They also want more rigid bowl selection order, having been jumped a couple times in the last few years.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I don't think Mizzou leaves the big 12
if anything they only leverage an ‘interest’ in leaving to try to get a better revenue sharing deal and bowl selection.
In football, they are actually disadvantaged by moving to the big 10. It’s a lot easier to win the big 12 north and advance to the big 12 championship than it would be to compete year in year out in a division including, most likely – Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Northwestern.
in basketball, Mike Anderson would be thorougly opposed to switching leagues. He recruits the south and likes to sell the games against Kansas and Texas every year. Playing slow down, grind it out defensive minded teams like Wisconsin and Purdue would be the worst case scenario for his ‘40 minutes of hell’ offense.
let’s face it, Mizzou’s biggest rival is in the big 12. The Border War is the biggest rivalry in the big 12 outside of the Red River shootout. The Mizzou fan base would be extremely agitated by this.
Waiting for April.
i honestly think it's Notre Dame or a Big East team, or no one.
the big east is a bloated league in basketball.
Also, if the focus of thsi chatter is on football than you actually have some teams in that league that would benefit from leaving one of the weakest and most disorganized football power conferences (read, Pitt, West Virginia, Cincinnati).
Waiting for April.
2 states needed to keep the conference name and lose the number
The Big Ten schools are located in 8 states. So you only need to find 2 AAU members plus one other AAU member like Pitt for an even 14 if you’re looking east.
New York—Syracuse University
New Jersey—Rutgers, the State University
Maryland—University of Maryland, College Park
Virginia—University of Virginia
I can't see any possible way UVA joins the Big Ten.
They don’t need the Big Ten’s money, they certainly don’t need the academic cachet, they’re manic about their Southern heritage, and they’re an original ACC member. To me, UVA joining up would be about 99999999x more shocking than Notre Dame, and just as unlikely as, say, Texas.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
penn state
whats up with the penn st comments, conferences need to have 12 teams to have a title game, read up a bit before posting something
The interesting name...
…to me that’s been mentioned a few places is Nebraska. They’re (the theory goes) unhappy with the Big-12, because they used to be the big wheel in Big-8 and they aren’t anymore. Plus the Big 12 has degraded their biggest rivalry game in football, with Oklahoma, and the revenue sharing is a compliant. They could try to revive the Oklahoma rivalry in non-conference.
They’d help as a TV market for BTN more than Pitt, but less than Mizzou, would be my guess. The name still has cachet, even though it’s been a while in reality.
They’d balance the natural divisions some:
Flat lands division:
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Illinois
Northwestern
Lakes division:
MSU
Indiana
Purdue
OSU
Our friends from Ann Arbor
PSU
I don’t see the problem with playing in a division with M, PSU and OSU. We already play two of those every year and what’s a Big 10 title you didn’t beat OSU for?
As far as the precise divisions, I don’t really care that much. Divide them up by whether you play euchre. Just don’t be the Big 12 and mess up anyone’s rivalry. I think OSU and Michigan need to be in the same division. They’ve got their tradition of the big, end of the year game and it would seem lame to me if they’re both good and might play to end the season and then the next week in the Big Tenwelve title game presented by Ro-Tel. Each school could get one protected rivalry in the other division.
One thing I wish they’d do is play nine conference games under the two-division setup. It would keep us at only missing two Big 10 teams and avoid the need to buy one non-conference opponent. Scheduling for football would be seem easier with an even number of teams.
As for basketball, Nebraska hasn’t often been good.
That's the first I've heard Nebraska mentioned
You make a solid argument. The divisions look OK from a football perspective, but the flatlands division is a little weak in basketball. Wisconsin and Illinois are the only programs that have a track record of being perennially good. Northwestern and Nebraska look to be doormats every year, and there’s a strong possibility that one or both of Iowa and Minnesota won’t be all that good either. In the lakes division PSU is the only potential perennial doormat and you can count on Indiana, MSU, Purdue and OSU being good to exceptional on a regular basis.
by TheCrestedHelm on Dec 18, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
BBall Conference
You don’t have to have the same divisions for BBall.
The Big East has 8 football teams but a billion basketball teams including Notre Dame.
Does the ACC have basketball divisions? I thought they did but everywhere lists them as only having one division while dividing up conferences that do have divisions, MAC.
Per Spartandan in the other thread
Looking at the three conferences with divisions in football, they all handle it differently:
* SEC: Same division structure.
* Big XII: Single division, but scheduling is based on the football divisions (home-and-home against your division, only one against the other).
* ACC: Appears to be mostly random, aside from UNC-Duke (and likely some other protected rivalries).
by witless chum on Dec 18, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions

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