Stampeded: Texas 79, Michigan State 68
The 2009-10 Michigan State basketball team returned five perimeter players who played significant minutes in the 2008-09 season:
- An All-American candidate point guard.
- Arguably the most talented back-up point guard in the Big Ten.
- Three upperclassmen wing players who have each played in at least ten high-pressure national-profile college basketball games.
Those five players combined for 20 turnovers tonight.
Texas is a very good defensive basketball team--the best in the nation to date according to the numbers--but their only statistical weakness/nonstrength is generating turnovers on defense. Opponents had turned the ball over on a mundane 19.8% of possesions coming into this game. MSU beat that by 10 percentage points: 29.7%.
Texas does post steals with frequency (13.9%), but only 8 of MSU's 20 turnovers tonight were the result of Longhorn steals. The majority of the turnovers were simply the result of getting flustered and making bad decisions with the ball against aggressive on-the-ball defense. Rick Barnes recognized and implemented the defensive game plan that's worked against this team so far this season: force them out of their comfort zone on the perimeter. The moments when the Spartans made Texas pay for its defensive overplays to create easy baskets going toward the hoop were few and far between.
MSU shot the ball well enough (5-7 on 3-pointers in the first half) to stay even with the Longhorns for the first 30 minutes of the game. But giving the ball away on nearly 1 out of 3 possessions eventually catches up with you (and 1-8 three-point shooting in the second half didn't help).
Defensively, MSU wasn't terrible. They didn't have many major defensive breakdowns leading to layups/dunks and they blocked out very well on the defensive glass. But you also have to chalk some of Texas' struggles to (1) Dexter Pittman playing only 12 minutes due to a couple borderline foul calls against him (can't pin this loss on Ed Hightower), neutralizing Texas' main offensive rebounding force, and (2) very poor free throw shooting (8-19). MSU had no answer for Damion James (23 points on 10-18 FG shooting), and Green, Roe, and Morgan all picked up 3+ fouls trying to stop Texas from scoring around the basket.
Texas converted 25 of 41 two-point shooting attempts (61.0%)--with a number of those 2-point conversions coming off MSU turnovers--and Jordan Hamilton provided some huge 3-point baskets for the Longhorns (14 points, 4-6 from beyond the arc). At the end of 40 minutes, 79 points for Texas in 74 possessions were quite sufficient to win this game.
Player bullets (official box score is here):
- Draymond Green's assist-turnover ratio: 4-0. The rest of the team's assist-turnover ratio: 8-22. Day Day has to learn to stay in games by keeping his aggressiveness in check, though. He picked up his second foul midway through the first half on an overzealous double team. That would end up limiting him to 19 minutes in the game. Brilliant play to draw a charge on Pittman for his 4th foul.
- Kalin Lucas struggled early and struggled often: 3-11 from the field, 6 turnovers. He made some good plays late in the game, though, when he put his head down against pressure and got into the lane. Why not tell him to do that from the get-go against heavy pressure on the perimeter?
- Delvon Roe played well tonight: 8 points on 4-4 FT shooting, 6 rebounds, 2 assists. He was aggressive when he got the ball near the basket.
- Raymar Morgan was good early, but finished with only 8 points and 4 rebounds in 29 minutes. Faded after a couple back-to-back plays late in the first half that had him sitting next to Tom Izzo on the bench. First pouting session of the year; hopefully, it's not a pattern.
- Chris Allen shot the ball well (12 points on 8 FGA) but made some poor decisions with the ball (5 turnovers). Better than shooting the ball poorly and making poor decisions with the ball, I guess.
- Same deal for Korie Lucious: 10 points on 4 FGA, 4 turnovers. Spinning into double-teams does not end well.
- I give Durrell Summers credit for continuing to shoot the ball with confidence even after struggling early. Managed to cobble together 11 points on 13 FGA. Made a couple very agile plays on defense.
- Derrick Nix played confidently during his 12 minutes on the court, scoring 4 points on 2-4 shooting. It's quite possible that a couple years from now Nix will be drawing the same sort of accolades Pittman is drawing now.
With just one game remaining in the nonconference slate, it sure feels like the results to date have been about as disappointing as could have plausibly been anticipated for a team ranked #2 in the nation in the preseason polls. Losses in all three non-home games against quality opponents. A home win against a fourth quality opponent that was just barely procured after a horrid first-half performance. Three offensive turnover percentages above 25% in those four games. (And Florida lost to another unranked opponent tonight, so that's looking less and less like a "quality loss.")
I don't have any great solutions (and if a know-it-all blogger doesn't have any solutions, who does?), but until the turnover issues are resolved the ceiling on this team's performance is pretty low. A #4 seed in the NCAA Tournament seems like the best-case scearnio at this point. And, even then, a loss to the first team with enough talent to play aggressive defense against us for 40 minutes would be a pretty likely outcome (ala the blowout loss to Memphis in 2008).
After one more nonconference gimme, there are 18 Big Ten games on the schedule during which to get it figured out.
Up Next: A long holiday-weekend layoff to mull this one over. UT-Arlington visits the Breslin Center at 7:00 next Wednesday (BTN).
P.S. Tom Izzo doing what a good coach does, talking his team up when they're down:
"It was a good game," Izzo said. "The place was great. I love playing here. Rick’s a good friend and I think he’s got a Final Four-type team. There’s more encouraging (than discouraging) coming out of Michigan State coming out of this game."
I, for one, am having a hard time finding the encouraging side of things right now.
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25 comments
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Comments
Izzo
First off, as a Texas fan, great game. I was lucky enough to attend and although it was sloppy with all the turnovers, the game was exciting and the atmosphere was great. The atmosphere is more a credit to you than us. Our fans only show up for the other team, so to have a packed house on a Tuesday is a great compliment to you and your program. Also, as a high school coach, I LOVE Izzo. I think he’s a fantastic coach and as soon as our schedule came out I circled MSU while everyone was talking about KU, UNC, UConn, etc. simply because I love to watch you guys play.
To me I was more impressed with us winning this game that the UNC game simply because MSU always does a great job of not letting teams run and not letting teams control the boards and that was true tonight. I don’t follow the Spartans nearly as close as you, but I wouldn’t worry. It seems to me that every year Izzo loads up the non-conference schedule, MSU suffers a few set-back and people write them off. Then about half-way through Big 10 play they turn it on and become the “team no one wants to play” come tourney time. I’m not sure how well this team fits that pattern, but I do know that I wouldn’t want to face Sparty come March, but if we do hopefully it will be in Indy.
Again, good game. Good luck the rest of the season.
'Til Gabriel blows his horn...
by mattyj on Dec 22, 2009 11:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Arrgh
The thing I love most about college basketball is the defensive intensity. The thing I hate most about college basketball is the defensive intensity. Texas exploited a well-known tendency that I have complained about on several occasions, including last year’s game at Purdue, also officiated by Hightower. A team, especially a home team, that ratchets up the defensive intensity to a point where they are in a state of constant fouling is going to reap dividends. Texas “turned up” the defensive intensity with an unstinting ball pressure that involved constant body contact, chest bumping, shoving, reach-ins and moving blocks. Every possession, all possession. I don’t fault them for it, because it will never be punished. To properly officiate a game like this the refs would have to be willing to blow the whistle many times in succession on a single possession in front of a vocal home crowd. I’ve never seen it happen and it didn’t happen tonight. The onus is on the coaches to expect this and have a plan for it. If the officials are going to let 6’6" Gary Johnson enshroud and consume 5’11" Korie Lucious then you shouldn’t have him bringing the ball up – multiple times.
Various irritations resulting from this game: the assertion that they beat us “at our own game” or the general idea that we tried to slow the game down to contain them. What a load of crap. Going into this game Texas averaged 76 possessions per game and MSU 71. This was a 74 possession game. Any slowdown in this game was due to Texas trying to protect or increase their lead. Texas was a train wreck (8-19) from the free throw line and their numbers going in suggested as much. We didn’t match their defensive intensity to take advantage of this. State lost this game because of turnovers and rebounds, which is especially galling since we have two supposedly adept point guards and they are not taller than us, especially with Pittman only playing 12 (!) minutes.
3 losses, 3 very winnable games. Needless to say, I’d like to get these guys in the tournament.
by Con-T on Dec 22, 2009 11:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
agree
The ball hawking defense, with constant hand checking and tough physical pressure is exactly the kind of defense that kills MSU, year after year; you’re right, it’s always in away games. I wonder about this — what should MSU’s reaction be in these games. Bilas kept saying the offensive player needs to lean into the defender to draw the foul, and it’s true that Lucas/lucious seemed strangely passive and almost intimidated. We keep hearing that Lucas has gotten stronger, but he did not play like it last night. But I wonder if MSU’s unwillingness to retaliate and play the same kind of defense does not then shape how the game is called. In other words, if you play that kind of defense as the away team from the outset, then the refs start to call the hand checks, and then to balance out these calls, they call them on the home team as well.
The other thing I can’t figure out is why the team seemed so unprepared for this Texas strategy. I really worry about away games in the Big ten, notably at Purdue.
by Anderlecht on Dec 23, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pump the brakes.
If you’re saying we’re a 4, that means there are at least 12 teams better than us. Not the case.
We’ve lost two true road games to teams with decided advantages they that utilized against us. The only alarming loss to me was to Florida. Neutral court, I would bet we get either UNC or Texas.
This is a team that’s going through a bit of adversity right now. That’s fine. But there aren’t 12 teams better than MSU in America.
by rook34 on Dec 22, 2009 11:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
But on a neutral court
isn’t the Gonzaga game a loss?
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Dec 23, 2009 7:17 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The turnovers are really irksome
Last year, I said if they continued past the Walton era, I would chalk it up to Izzo’s offensive system. Walton had many great attributes but his turnover rate was sub-par for a point guard. The TO issues have now been a constant problem through multiple player groups, and have to be considered a function of the coaching or offensive system.
The other explanation is that Lucas, Lucious, Summers, Allen, etc. were highly regarded recruits that happened to be prone to turning the ball over. I can only surmise that our guards dribble into, instead of away from, overplays is because that is where the play that has been called demands that they go, and they are going to try to go there damn the consequences or hedging by the defense. It’s the same thing with passes that go where the player should be but isn’t, or despite where the defender happens to be – they make the pass even if a defender is overplaying the passing lanes.
Against a defense like this Lucas should have a field day driving to the hoop and either laying it in, finding a cutting post player for an easy shot, or kicking it out to an open player on the wing. Instead, we seem to hover out on the perimeter passing it from one wing to the other against this type of pressure, which is a recipe for disaster. We need to start attacking the heart of the defense when they overplay, but we seem to lack either the confidence or game plan to do so. Yes, Texas was bumping us on the perimeter and it wasn’t being called, but that happens a lot and we need to find a way to deal with and exploit it rather than wish the refs would call a tight game on the perimeter.
It’s frustrating because when this offense is clicking it is a thing of beauty. We just seem to go into spells once or twice a game where nothing goes right, we can’t hang onto the ball, and the other team opens up a lead with turnovers for easy points. I have to surmise that giving up easy transition points is one of the reasons our defensive efficiency is not quite up to par this year, and that is a function of turning the ball over out on the perimeter. James was a beast tonight, but we could have overcome his production if we had limited the turnovers.
As it is, I am not looking forward to the Purdue games. If things do not improve, with their defense, they will eat us alive. There were some positives in last night’s game – we scored efficiently in the first half and played pretty good defense when they weren’t running down the court for another turnover-induced break. Nix looked comfortable out there against Pittman. We did not look like the preseason #2 though, and it is our perimeter players that let us down tonight. Given the talent and experience we have out there, that should be a strength, not a weakness.
by TheCrestedHelm on Dec 23, 2009 7:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
We should never have been ranked 2
We are not the second best team in the country. We ost two starters, one of them all league. Izzo said as much.
by rook34 on Dec 23, 2009 7:31 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I guess so
But who should have been ranked ahead of us? Texas, for example, is in basically the same boat as us—lost 2 starters, but returned 7 of top 9 players by minutes played. Only difference would be the quality of their incoming freshmen.
We were pretty clearly a top 5 team on paper going into the season. We are pretty clearly not a top 5 team right now.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Dec 23, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have ranked...
KU, Purdue, and Kentucky ahead of us, Kentucky on their sheer talent.
I agree, I would have put us top 5. Problem is, that label sticks without anyone having seen so much as a practice.
by rook34 on Dec 23, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Three or four seed seems about right
What is disappointing to me is that this is a relatively veteran team—by today’s college standards—many of whom have played together for a few years now, and made it through the gauntlet of the tourney last year. This is not to downplay the leadership and contributions of Suton and Walton (and Walton did to Abrams last year what their guards did to Lucas last night), but I would expect more composure on the road. As Crested mentions, I worry about the Purdue games, as they have been the most fundamentally sound defensive team I’ve seen this year: they can both pressure the ball and play smart team defense.
But the play of our frontline was a positive development: while Raymar disappeared a bit after his behind-the-back-debacle, I thought Nix and Roe seemed as confident and offensively minded as I have seen them against a quality opponent, and I thought we did a good job keeping a great offensive rebounding team off the glass (esp. considering what they did to UNC). We didn’t seem overwhelmed down low. And while I wouldn’t want him to fall in love with the idea, it was great to see Green hit a three and take open jumpers. If the bigs keep developing and gaining confidence, I like our chances a lot more.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Dec 23, 2009 8:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lucious at the point
Don’t get me wrong, I like what he brings in all other aspects of the game … but he simply cannot run the point against an aggressive man D. The “back out to midcourt, oops he stole the ball” sequence happens entirely too often, along with the passes to no one (miscommunication, not sure whether it’s on him or not but it sure seems to happen more often when he’s got the ball).
The bigs took a step forward tonight, but we’ve got to get the turnover issues under control if we’re going to do any damage in March.
That said, that is one hell of a Texas team, and I fully expect to see them playing in April. I only hope we can join them.
by SpartanDan on Dec 23, 2009 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What I couldn't believe
was how MSU fans invaded Texas like that. I could hear a pretty good Go Green! Go White! chant during every Texas free-throw and it was pretty loud when they had the ball on offense as well.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
by Seer on Dec 23, 2009 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
4 seed very much a realistic possiblity but
definitely not “best-case scenario”. 1 seed is still out there for us. Granted, it would take a very impressive big ten championship and maybe the tourney as well. There are a lot of high quality opponents in the big ten that will equate to impressive wins (if we win). Although a lot of the media seems to hate on our conference with regularity, that is not always the case with the selection committee. That said, I could see us dropping to 5-6 range if we can’t figure some things out.
Here’s my “whats with all these mathmatics I want to talk about feelings!” take on our loses: it’s unfortunate we did not get an impressive road win in the non-conference, but I’m not all that worried about it. I have a completely different outlook on Izzo’s coaching style and season long strategy after last year. Basically it is blind faith. Whatever he does results in suprising success at the end of the year and I have a feeling that it may also result in ugly play at the begining of the year. And I have no idea why or anyway to back that up. All said, in college basketball, the end of the year is all that matters, and Izzo knows that better than most, and so do we.
luttez pour les seuls couleurs, vert et blanc
by vert_et_blanc on Dec 23, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The thing that is most frustrating
is that we start three juniors and a senior that have gotten significant playing time over the course of their careers in the backcourt, pluse one sophmore who has played meaningful minutes. Texas has Balby, a junior, one sophomore, and three freshmen playing meaningfull minutes in their backcourt. We had more experience on the court by far but looked like the inexperienced backcourt.
by TheCrestedHelm on Dec 23, 2009 1:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
half full/ half empty
This team is not a top ten team; I thought the rankings early on were a bit excessive, but I thought they deserved to be in the top ten, say. Now I’m not so sure. This team is just not playing well right now. Perhaps it is true that once again Izzo will get them to peak later in the season, and one knows from experience that Izzo teams start slowly. At the same time, a team with so many upperclassmen should not fall apart like this, with repeated mental lapses and indecision. I found Morgan perhaps the most disappointing, but Lucas a close second. When does Morgan show all the experience he has accumulated over the years and play like a senior?
The comments in the press from Lucas about too many players arguing with Izzo in the huddle suggested some dissension, which left me wondering about team chemistry issues.
The start of the big ten season is cause for worry. The first game at Northwestern worries me in particular.
by Anderlecht on Dec 23, 2009 3:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lucas's comments a knock on Green?
He’s the main guy you see talking back to Izzo.
Of course, he’s the only guy who didn’t turn it over last night, too.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Dec 23, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Green
True, but Green did not have a great game, and several of his fouls were not smart.
by Anderlecht on Dec 23, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not worried about the comments. This stuff happens all the time. Guys engaged in what’s going on is a good thing, even if they are wrong. It is when people stop giving a damn that you have a problem. Lucas had come off the court after he played poorly and had a mike shoved in his face. I doubt this is dissension. The team is going through the usual storming/norming phase.
by rook34 on Dec 23, 2009 9:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Leadership?
So much of this is probably invisible to fans but I’d be curious to hear Izzo’s unvarnished opinions of Lucas and Morgan’s captainship this year. I don’t think of Raymar as the rock solid “get your team through difficult moments” type and I don’t see Lucas being incredibly communicative on the court. Is he great with the ball in pressure situations? Sure. A vocal leader and floor general to get you to that situation? I’m not as sold. But again, this could be a perception issue.
Bottom line, as I said below, I’m not sold this team has the leadership and chemistry to consistently beat the best squads in the country.
by intrpdtrvlr on Dec 24, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been internet-less for a week so I'm late
Does this sound familiar? Talented, highly ranked, deep (but not too deep) MSU team loses some key players from the previous season and struggles due to a line-up hole, suspect chemistry, and leadership problems. I’m having 2005-2006 heeby-jeebies after the Texas game.
I hope I’m wrong and the ship turns around quickly during the Big Ten season.
But am I convinced that this year’s squad isn’t headed for the middle of the pack in a competitive conference and 5 seed? No.
by intrpdtrvlr on Dec 24, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is not 2006
That team had a center. Totally different makeups and situation.
by rook34 on Dec 24, 2009 2:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well, sure
But did it have a power forward? Trannon was serviceable for sure but it’s not like he locked down the position.
The problem was at a different position but, besides that, I think many of the parallels fit. As my list addresses it’s not night and day. Some of the specific roster spots may be different but I think some of the issues and dynamics are very similar. If nothing else “totally different make-ups and situation” is an overstatement.
by intrpdtrvlr on Dec 25, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reflection
Been away from the internet with family obligations, but had a couple of late thoughts. A big difference to me was the contrast between James and Morgan. Over four years, James has developed into a force, at times an unstoppable force. The same can’t be said for Morgan, and we need that type of player, particularly with the inexperience at center.
We need much more leadership from the guard position, particularly Lucas, to be a Final Four caliber team. A weakness has been that he doesn’t get his teammates involved enough in the flow of the game. Instead, he has a tendency to try to take over. If he is hot, it works out well. If he is not, the team suffers.
I commented recently about what I perceived to be a surprising lack of cohesiveness and consistencey at this point in the season. On a veteran team, I expected more, even with the loss of key players and injuries. Roe and Green have been our most consistent players. The rest will need to find a consistent positive presence for us to be successful in the Big Ten campaign.
by donaldo on Dec 25, 2009 10:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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