Are we elite yet?

Sure, they’re not UNC, but no one outside of UNC is. But can anyone honestly name 10 programs over the past decade+ that are better than MSU has been? Making it to the Final 4 at least once every 4 years, that isn’t elite?

But then I think about it a little more, and realize that writers are paid to write, and so sometimes they just have to make up BS stories to collect their $$. Really, what jobs out there in college basketball would be considered anything more than a lateral move for Izzo, meanwhile he’d be leaving behind his fanatical fan base, and just exposing himself to an added layer of scrutiny. Maybe Kentucky is looked at as “better” than MSU, but by how much? To me that would be like leaving my pretty much guaranteed job of $100k / year in a community that I’ve practically grown up in, and established myself in, to go take a $105k / year job at a place that doesn’t yet trust me, definitely not obsessed with me, and where any slight hiccup could cause me to be lose my job. (My $ analogy doesn’t work quite as well as I’d like, but I was basically trying to make one job “better” but not by a whole lot)

I missed something here. When I think of elite programs, MSU is the third or fourth name that pops into my head behind UNC, Duke, maybe Kansas. I know title game blowouts like the back of my hand these days, so take my advice and remember this: you lost in the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. What’s more, you got there by legit means. I’ve never been under any illusion that MSU is not one of the top 5 programs in the country and in everyone’s mindset. That UNC team was simply a buzzsaw that got unbelievably hot at the right time.

The numbers back it up. Moreover, any college basketball fan should appreciate the larger picture. This is not simply a fluky championship run- this is sustained consistency within the regular season and NCAA tourney. Over the span of a decade. With distinctly different personnel. Against quality opposition.

So, as Michigan State fans, we should recognize the accomplishments and enjoy the moment- but know that Izzo isn’t done yet.

We’re clearly elite in terms of recent results. (Recent meaning the Izzo era.)

Two things that I think we’re arguably lacking:

1) Ravenous, insane fan base. I think the typical MSU fan still understands we’re not going to make the Final Four every year. That’s probably a good thing. (For an example of how a passionate fanbase can work against you, see “Kentucky, University of.”) The bad thing is it may reduce financial resources somewhat.

2) National recruiting panache. We’re not regularly in the running for top national recruits like a UNC or Kansas is. But it’s hard for me to say how much of that is a lack of “eliteness” and how much is just a function of Izzo’s choice to focus on Midwest guys who are unlikely to go pro after a year or two of college.

I think if the question is “How do we rank in terms of the ability to compete for national titles over the next 5-10 years?” then you have to say we’re certainly in the top ten programs in the nation—maybe top five. Which I’d say is elite.

I know there’s some disagreement on this point, but I think the fact that we hadn’t won our conference in many seasons was a major impediment to our being considered at the very top level of college basketball. To some degree, the emergence of Illinois as a major national power for a few years in the middle of the decade is a valid explanation, but there were some truly inexcusable and inexplicable losses to Wisconsin thrown in there. However, breaking that streak in a truly emphatic way — winning the conference by 4 games, in a year in which we produced seven NCAA teams and an NIT champion — should put that argument to rest, at least for a while.

My initial reaction to these sorts of debates is, who cares? I think nearly all MSU fans are quite comfortable with the success we’ve had, and I don’t think need that sentiment validated by some recognition as an “elite” team. I’m slowly coming around to the idea that perception is truly reality, however — and if we’re able to pick off a high-end recruit or two because we’re recognized as one of the very best, so much the better.

Anyway, I think this debate reflects far more on the self-consciousness of MSU fans than anything else. I’m pretty certain that if you travel around Blogfrica, there’s not much debating the point, and Izzo is enormously respected. The only thing holding us back at this point is that it doesn’t say “Kansas,” “Kentucky,” “North Carolina,” or any of the like on the front of our jersey. That kind of blue-blood credibility takes much longer than 15 years to develop.

Had we beaten UNC, we would have had easy claim to best program of the decade. With the loss, we’re second, possibly third based on your opinions on Florida’s two titles. I’d put us ahead of the Gators because they’ve been a feast or famine type program.

If the question is elite status over the last decade, there’s no dispute that you guys are among the most accomplished programs. UConn, UNC, and Florida have multiple championships in that time, but none of those programs has been as steady as MSU, and no other program has been to the Final Four as many times. Anyone who doesn’t consider MSU one of the top 5 programs of the current era just isn’t paying attention.

The more interesting question is your status overall in the CBB world. There are only 14 schools with multiple championships, and only 7 schools that have won titles under more than one coach. MSU is one of them. As a fan of a school that is in the overall (but certainly not current) pantheon, I think you guys are in in both respects.

Historically, I think there are six elite programs. In order:
1. UCLA (duh)
2. UNC
3. Kentucky (below UNC only due to their multiple bouts of flagrant cheating)
4. Kansas
5. Indiana
6. Duke

We aren’t in that group. We’re in the next tier with schools like Louisville, St. John’s, Arizona, etc.

The last ten years, taken as a whole, we are clearly in the elite class. I know UConn and Florida have two national titles to our one, but we’ve been more consistent (both of those schools have missed tournaments in that span). Carolina is probably #1 over the last 10, but everyone forgets they went 8-20 in the last Doherty year. Duke, despite their recent struggles, has to be in there over the last 10 due to their long run of ACC success before Ol’Roy returned to Carolina.

We have taken over for IU as the nationally recognized leader of the Big 10 (shut up, Bucky, and make a couple more Final Fours) and are clearly an Elite program. As long as Izzo can continue to get good enough players to work for his system, we should stay there.

The big test will be when he leaves, and whether or not Gregory/Boylen/Wojick whoever else can maintain the success. Tough job for anyone to take on. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen for awhile.

Someone already brought it up, but the biggest knock for me regarding this issue is that MSU is never at the top of the recruiting charts. Maybe this is a nod to the ability of Izzo teaching or just the fact that we always ends up with solid players, but rarely do you see us get a top 10 player, yet alone be in the running for a few.

Results speak differently, and that alone leads me to believe they are smong the elite. UNC, Duke, and Kansas fill out my group.

New here, great to see MSU getting a site on here. I have followed MSU’s Basketball team since 1997, and they are my favorite college basketball team in a tie with Kansas, whom I have followed since 2001. MSU is also my 2nd favorite football program, behind my Florida Gators, whom I have followed since 1992 or 1993. As you could imagine, im loving my recent college team success.

Prior to the final four (it was on the eve of playing UConn) I had a conversation with a co-worker’s boyfriend who grew up in NC and went to UNC. His impression was that we were not too far behind his beloved Tar Heels in the status department. My contention is that when a true blue UNC fan thinks you belong somewhere in their general vicinity status-wise, you have reached elite status. We don’t quite have the Indiana/UNC/Kansas/Duke/UCLA/Kentucky cachet yet, but we are close. All we lack is the history, which can only be rectified by time. I’d call us an Arizona – elite level perfomance under one coach (Lute) but still waiting to see if the name on the jersey guarantees that the talent will keep coming under someone else. The transition from the Izzo to post-Izzo era is what will define us as either a newer KU or a program with a single golden era.

I have to believe that the reason we don’t pull in more top recruits from outside the midwest is that Izzo just doesn’t go after them as a general rule. I think he likes to take good kids that he can rely on to comport themselves well, and it’s easier to get a valid impression of a kid’s personality if he’s nearby and you can interact with him on a more regular basis. I’m not sure he trusts what he’s getting baggage- and commitment-wise from a blue chipper from halfway across the country who he hasn’t had that much of a chance to meet with and see play as often.

Historically, close but no cigar – probably the top team of the second tier. While we’ve certainly outperformed Duke (in March, at least), Kentucky, and Indiana recently, we don’t have the same kind of storied history they do.

Recently? Anyone who doesn’t think this is an elite program at the moment is either ignorant or deliberately writing to stir up controversy. While we have had a couple of down years in the streak (five years as a 6 seed or lower in a six-year span from 2002-2007), we have the fourth-longest streak of consecutive tournament appearances, and we have more Final Four appearances than anyone in the past 11 years. The teams that can match us for consecutive tournament appearances haven’t done as well in the tournament (both Duke and Kansas have a title and a second-place finish but only one other Final Four to our three since 1999, and Kentucky hasn’t been there at all), and the ones who can match our tournament success (UNC, UConn, Florida) have all had some horrible years as well in which they missed the tournament.