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The Big Men of the Izzo Era

 

(. . . and the bloggers who loved them.)

This fall, there will be six big men on the roster: Delvon Roe, Draymond Green, Tom Herzog, Derrick Nix, and Garrick Sherman.  Of those players, only Delvon Roe came in as a big-time, sure-fire recruit.  We have a pretty good sense that Draymond Green has the necessary goods to be a major contributor for the next three years.  But, beyond those guys, it's a crapshoot.  You have a redshirt junior who hasn't shown major strides in his development and two incoming freshmen who may or may not be ready to play significant minutes right off the bat.

So the question is (something like) "How much can we trust Tom Izzo to turn these guys into reliable playing options?" To provide some historical context in which to discuss this question, I've compiled the following handy reference guide:

Star-divide

PLAYER RSCI G Min/G Pts/G FG% 3FG% FT% Reb/G Blk/G
Paul Davis 7 33 30.8 17.5 56.6 31.6 87.0 9.1 0.9
Andre Hutson ? 32 29.9 13.8 62.2 0.0 72.5 7.6 0.5
Antonio Smith ? 29 31.2 8.5 56.4 0.0 49.6 10.6 0.2
Goran Suton -- 32 26.7 10.4 52.1 43.8 84.8 8.4 0.5
Adam Ballinger -- 27 28.3 11.2 54.5 37.3 86.4 6.8 1.0
Zach Randolph 1 33 19.8 10.8 58.7 0.0 63.5 6.7 0.7
A.J. Granger ? 39 28.8 9.5 50.0 45.0 89.3 5.3 0.5
Adam Wolfe 88 17 20.9 9.4 46.7 46.2 82.9 5.0 0.8
Aloysius Anagonye 68 35 22.6 7.4 61.8 0.0 69.1 5.3 0.6
Marquise Gray 28 35 18.7 6.8 57.8 0.0 59.0 5.5 0.6
Delvon Roe 10 38 17.9 5.6 56.6 0.0 45.5 5.2 0.8
Erazem Lorbek -- 35 15.7 6.4 53.4 46.2 64.9 3.3 0.6
Dujuan Wiley -- 30 16.2 6.3 62.4 0.0 72.3 3.4 1.7
Matt Trannon 52 22 22.2 4.6 55.1 0.0 59.1 4.3 0.5
Drew Naymick 51 33 21.2 4.3 65.0 0.0 77.4 4.1 1.7
Draymond Green 95 37 11.4 3.3 55.6 0.0 61.5 3.3 0.2
Jason Andreas -- 30 14.1 2.8 55.1 0.0 90.0 2.3 0.2
Idong Ibok -- 34 10.3 2.0 67.6 0.0 51.5 2.3 1.0
Delco Rowley -- 30 7.6 1.0 54.5 0.0 58.3 1.1 0.1
Ken Miller -- 13 2.6 0.7 42.9 0.0 50.0 0.8 0.0
Tom Herzog 47 16 2.0 0.6 60.0 0.0 57.1 0.7 0.3

Bulleted technical notes:

  • Table includes every scholarship big man to become a Spartan during the Tom Izzo era--plus Matt Trannon.
  • Statistics are decidedly non-tempo-free.  Because they were easy to pull that way.  And they capture the amount of gross productivity a player contributed.
  • RSCI stands for Recruiting Services Consensus Index.  It's basically the average recruiting ranking for a player when he graduated from high school.  Data are not available for classes before 1998 (hence the question marks).
  • The stat line for each player is the player's peak season in terms of scoring/rebounding.  Generally, that's a player's final season with the team.  Exceptions: Smith (sophomore year; before better scoring options arrived), Ballinger (junior; slumped as senior), Gray (sophomore), Ibok (sophomore).
  • The following players left the program before their eligibility expired: Randolph (NBA), Wolfe (injuries), Lorbek (Europe), Trannon (NFL combine), Rowley (injuries), Miller (injuries).
  • The three active players going into next season are in italics; their stats are for this past season.
  • Players are sorted based on the fairly arbitrary statistical indicator of (Pts/G + Reb/G).  Again, the idea is to look at the degree to which a player was a contributor in terms of playing time and overall productivity.

Now to more substantive analysis, also in bullet point form:

  • Paul Davis is your outlier: The five-star recruit who stayed for four years and produced big numbers over his entire career.
  • After that you get to the Tom Izzo big man sweet spot, guys who didn't come in as big-time recruits but developed into championship-level starters: Hutson, Smith, Suton, Ballinger, Granger.
  • Randolph obviously would have climbed toward the top of the list had he stayed more than one year.  Same thing, to a lesser degree, for Lorbek.
  • Guys who didn't put up huge numbers, but had fairly satisfactory conclusions to their careers: Anagonye, Wiley, Trannon, Naymick.
  • Wolfe's numbers indicate he could have been a very good Spartan had a multitude of injury issues not interfered.
  • Gray's peak numbers look pretty decent, but hide the fact he regressed as a junior and senior.
  • Guys who just never developed into significant contributors: Andreas, Ibok, Rowley.
  • Guy who left the team due to injuries but probably wouldn't have become a major contributor anyway: Miller.

So, of the 18 players on the list whose careers are complete, I'd say only 5 players can be judged as failures in terms of never developing into a reliable part of the playing rotation or, in Gray's case, not coming close to meeting his enormous potential.

It's hard for me to judge a success rate (or at least "nonfailure rate) of 72.2% against other top college basketball programs, but it seems like a reasonable number.

Looking at the five scholarship big men that will be on the roster this fall:

  • Roe and Green are almost certain to move up the list above as they continue to develop and, in Roe's case, get 100% healthy.
  • Herzog could conceivably become a contributor, but it's hard to find a good match on the list above.  Maybe Naymick.  After three years in the program without making any discernible impact, the odds would seem to tilt toward him joining the list of players who didn't become reliable contributors.
  • Nix and Sherman will, we hope, end up in the Hutson/Smith/Suton/Ballinger/Granger group or, at worst, get to the Anagonye level.  Neither seems to fit the profile of the players at the bottom of the list--generally taller, less skilled players who never filled out.

The Spartan stars of the Izzo era have generally been guards and small forwards (continuing a trend from the Heathcote era): Cleaves, Peterson, Bell, Richardson, Taylor, Hill, Torbert, Anderson, Ager, Brown, Neitzel, Morgan, Lucas.  Izzo tends to recruit less-heralded big men, but his system is reliant on developing those players so they can do the things that allow the perimeter players to shine: rebound, set picks, make passes, hit jumpers, etc.

Next year's roster will be weighted toward the perimeter in terms of experience, with Lucas, Summers, Allen, Lucious, and Morgan all returning as key contributors.  Tom Izzo will have his work cut out for him in terms of making sure the big men can keep up.  If he can continue his historical rate of success--perhaps on a somewhat accelerated schedule--the team should be in good shape.

1 recs  |  Comment 12 comments |

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Good Article KJ, but...

You said six big men, but only mention five. I think you left out Raymar, and I think he’d count as a big if you count Green.

by Pete Rossman on May 11, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think your being a tad to hard on Herzog. He was always gonna need a year or two to get a big ten body. Then in year three he has 3 Sr big men and a 5 star frosh to deal with. I think you will see him getting 10-15 min and making a Naymick like impact.

"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans

by msufan23 on May 11, 2009 6:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

G0EL, I don’t think Raymar fits as a big man in terms of player development/skillset. Green may be shorter, but is more of in-the-paint player than Morgan is. Morgan certainly has the ability to play the 4, though, and may actually play there more than at the 3 next year, reducing the need for Herzog/Sherman/Nix to play lot of minutes.

msufan23, I hope you’re right. Hard to see what kind of role he plays on offense, though. Naymick learned to make good decisions with the ball and hit the open 15-footer.

Cheer for The Only Colors: Green and White!

by KJ@theonlycolors on May 11, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree that Raymar's a tweener

He’s not really a 3 or a 4, he fits between the two categories.

The reason I think he might be worth a mention though is that in the coming season, he’ll probably be asked to play at the 4 more with the lack of an established post.

by Pete Rossman on May 11, 2009 9:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post, a couple thoughts from an outsider

Over 70% seems like a ridiculously high “hit rate” per say for big men. The common saying is that big men are a crap shoot and that’s mostly because so many of them never really turn out. I think Izzo does a great job developing big men because of his emphasis on rebounding and defense. He doesn’t typically ask too much of them but asks the right things.

In terms of Herzog, Nix, Sherman… I think it’ll be interesting. I think Sherman will be by far the best of the group, probably a Suton type. I’m just not enamored with Herzog or Nix. I think Nix is probably closer to the Gray/Ibok group. Herzog has always needed to add weight, but at this point is he ever going to?

I’ve always loved Day-Day’s game and I’ll be rooting for that kid when I can.

My first post over here at the new spot… Keep up the good work. Kind of a pain that you have to register to comment though.

by umhoops on May 11, 2009 9:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Dylan

The good news is that, once you’re registered, you can join any SBN blog with one click.

Cheer for The Only Colors: Green and White!

by KJ@theonlycolors on May 12, 2009 7:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Herzog

Good post. great names from the past, like Wiley, the best Juco MSU has ever had! I’d forgotten how much of a contributor he had been. And Wolfe, who would have been a great player for MSU, without the horrible injury. Perhaps the best pure shooter Izzo ever had.

I too am skpetical of Herzog. He seems skilled and smart in basketball terms, but his body has changed so little in three years, it is hard to believe that he will ever be a Big Ten player. Wish the kid well, though.

Morgan can play the 4 — but if he is playing a lot of 4 this year, I think the team will be in trouble, or at least will not live up to its current ranking. They will just no be big enough. For a top ten type of team to emerge, either Nix or Sherman needs to progress the way Green did this year, or Herzog needs to prove people like me wrong.

by Anderlecht on May 12, 2009 8:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Morgan at the four

I agree we don’t necessarily want him playing the 4 the majority of the time this year. He’s not that undersized, but it would leave us slightly undersized at center, where presumably Roe would be our guy. A front line of Roe and Morgan is just not big enough. With Green in there with the other two our rebounding should be OK – it will be on D where the lack of height will take its toll.

Ideally Herzog, whether he fills out or not, can provide a fair number of minutes, or one of the big frosh can contribute immediately. I’m not sure Herzog needs to be super-bulky. We’ve got plenty of rebounding prowess with Roe, Morgan, and Green and plenty of scoring can come from those players plus Lucas, Allen, Summers, Lucious, etc. All we need from him is the occassional 10 footer, some ball handling, and for him to bother shots in the lane. I think he can do all three without filling out too much more. It would be nice if he turned into Shaq this summer but that probably won’t happen.

by TheCrestedHelm on May 12, 2009 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Morgan & Roe

Would that really be so bad to have Morgan at the four and Roe at the five?

I think you’ve got to get your best five on the floor and this lineup would probably let you do it. College basketball is becoming more and more of a guards game and the power forward is becoming smaller and smaller.

There are teams in the Big Ten that can go “big” like MSU, OSU, Illinois, and Minnesota but there are also plenty of Robbie Hummel types playing the power forward in college hoops.

As a Michigan fan this year it became clear that teams struggle with whether to go big or to “match up” and go small. I go with the opinion that it’s always better to go big when you can after watching Michigan this year. The Illinois series stands out in this regard.

But still, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ray at the four if it’s the most talented five.

http://www.umhoops.com

by umhoops on May 12, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

depth issues

I agree that Izzo went small very successfully at times this last year, and I agree that few college teams have legitimate bigs. However. the real problem is one of depth. Imagine either foul trouble in an individual game or any kind of injury — to Morgan or Roe. You’re pretty quickly asking 6"5 Green to play the five for quality minutes, unless one of the freshman or Herzog can step in credibly. And Roe and Morgan won’t be leading the fast break if you are asking them to log in 35 minutes every game.

by Anderlecht on May 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Worrying about Raymar at the 4 is silly he plays better at the 4 then the 3. He has never had a great 3 point shot, and he is at his best when inside. Lets also remeber that he was are 2nd leading reb before he got hurt and that was when we were big.

"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans

by msufan23 on May 12, 2009 4:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so worried with Morgan at the 4

I’m more worried about Roe at the 5. I realize that gets our best 5 on the floor but I would worry about playing a team like Purdue with a legitimate skilled center with no one bigger than Roe to check him. I know a lot of teams play a smaller lineup out of necessity, and if no one steps up this year we may have to, and we may be successful in a lot of games with a smaller lineup. I think it is important, though, to realize that teams usually go small out of necessity – not by choice – and I would prefer to have the option of going big.

by TheCrestedHelm on May 13, 2009 10:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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