The "What's Up with the Michigan State Football Program" Open Thread

So…one legal adult didn’t say he was sorry to another legal adult and THAT’s what reflects poorly on Michigan State athletics — who is saying sorry and when and how.

A.J., cowboy. Love you to pieces, pal, but this is over and dealt with from where you stand. I don’t think there’s anyone who isn’t mortified about the whole schmear of events, but just because you’re the victim of random violence — that was successfully prosecuted, by the way — it doesn’t make you St. AJ, patron saint of public relations, martyr of keeping Michigan State in the news.

No one asked; no one cares. Victims aren’t entitled to personal apologies, AJ. And if you attend a Michigan State home game this fall and Glenn Winston breaks one off around the end for 40 yards, look around at the 75,004 apes—t fans happy to have Glenn back.

To start with, I think MSU disrespected one of its finest programs (Hockey, multiple championships, most recent in ‘07) in favor of revenue (football, Citrus Bowl Champs 2000! Yay!), pure and simple. Flip the script. What if Sturges is an up-and-comer on the football team and Winston a freshman hockey player? Winston ends Sturges season and immediately his head is called for. He’d never play another game in the green and white, not a doubt in my mind. Hockey players would again be bedeviled as jock brutes.
But, that’s not the case. What Hollis and Dantonio have effectively said is the football program is bulletproof, especially INSIDE MSU athletics. Even when a player acts like an ass and doesn’t show any remorse for his actions, he gets to come back because that’s the power of football. It’s a shame this happened. I’m not advocating for Winston to get cut, but I think the rush to reinstate was a little too drastic. Let him practice but not play for a season, show he can take a punishment handed down from the school (I might be old-fashioned, but I view his punishment from the county as a separate matter) and then maybe rejoin the team. Not apologizing is a joke. I’d like him in a suit and tie and out in front of the microphones, or at least to chat with A.J. at Munn and offer his sincere remorse for stealing a season from a fellow Spartan.

He has served time in jail for a double misdemeanor. Note that he’s not a felon. If he had been convicted of a felony, he’d be off the team per MSU’s AD rules. Sturges’s complaints that the policy is not clear is incorrect, as it’s clearly being followed.

Winston also missed 5 games last season in addition to some other coach directed punishments.

And on top of that we do not know what further punishments GW may face. He’s been reinstated which means he can practice, but afaik, he has not been cleared to play in any games. If you think that GW deserves to play at some point for MSU then it makes more sense for him to be practicing with the team and under the thumb of Mark Dantonio and the AD. If you think he should be gone for good, then you have reason to be upset at this point.

It’s too soon to judge imo. I think Winston should be allowed back on at least at some point. I don’t know enough at this time about the situation or Dantonio’s decision to say it was right or wrong.

What actually happened may never be released, however, I do not like the precedent. It is tantamount to a big zit on the face of the program and may have a negative impact. The wide receiver/corner, TJ Willams, was kicked off the team a couple of years ago and the reason was never reported.

He served his debt to society, great. Does he apologize or not? If he was a guy of character, he’d want to. But he’s obviously not.

Regardless, that’s not what matters here.

I think the MSU football team — and Michigan State as a whole — should have higher standards than that. I know, it really hasn’t had any standards in recent years. I had high hopes Mark Dantonio would turn that around.

Maybe he still will. But this was not a step in that direction.

… when it’s clear that they learned from the first one. I don’t think it’s clear that Winston has.

If you know you did something wrong, you own up to the consequences. That includes apologizing to the victims, whether that exposes you to civil liability or not. (And the fact that he was convicted makes it quite likely that a civil suit would win whether an apology would be construed as an admission of guilt or not – the burden of proof in civil cases is lower than that in criminal cases.) To me, that’s a prerequisite for reinstatement in cases like this.

Just curious. Winston just got out of jail after serving roughly 180 days (or close to 6 months), when was he supposed to offer this heartfelt apology to Sturges? Prior to conviction or sentencing, I’m not sure it’s a good idea for an assailant to approach his victim. It does seem like at some point it would be appropriate to issue an apology for his actions, but we don’t know what constraints his lawyers, family and coaches have placed upon him. I’m sure he could have written a letter while in jail, but again, we don’t know what legal advice he has received.

I’m torn on this. I really believe that if he has completed his sentence he should be given a second chance, but I’ve also thought maybe the coaches could encourage him to get that chance somewhere else where he might fly a bit under the radar. That being said , he may be on a probation scheme that prohibits him from moving out of State.

It is a very difficult situation and we should be fair to all parties. An 18 year old kid who made a horrible mistake should not be condemned for life if he completes his sentence.

What’s disappointing is that this whole episode is a blow against the “family” concept I think the MSU athletic program has been building in recent years. The main synergy is obviously basketball-football (Izzo-Dantonio) but it extends to the other sports, as well (thanks in large part to Izzo’s support for the nonrevenue sports). Regardless of what you think the correct decision was/is with regards to Winston (put me in the “let ‘em spend another 12 months proving he’s a new man” camp), this is a major negative for the Spartan brand.

Beyond that, good dialogue on the topic here. Even more than usual, I’m impressed with our readers’ abilities to raise important points and debate a contentious issue civilly.