Michigan State-Purdue Highlights
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 21, 2010 8:53 AM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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Taking it in the gut. (Photo credit: MSU Football)
I don't usually know exactly what to be looking at (other than the ball) when I'm watching a football game, but I do know that, when your team only sends three guys after the punter, they're playing for the return. I was, therefore, somewhat shocked when there was no punt for Keshawn Martin to field and the crowd started going berserk. Denicos Allen didn't care so much about the set-up-the-return plan.
BTN highlights are here. No embeddable highlights this week so enjoy this instead:
"I can't plant my leg and pivot off it without excruciating pain," he said, "so I have to play with flat feet."
The man looked like he could hardly walk at times yesterday. And he had to get a painkilling shot in his left shoulder at halftime. Gutsy, gutsy performance.
Unfortunately, it's also one more reason to be worried about next week's game in Happy Valley (which has somehow been scheduled opposite the Michigan-Ohio State game; BOOOOOO!!!). It'll be very interesting to see where the line opens. Sagarin says MSU by 3 (based on the PREDICTOR ratings); I could easily see it swing to a 3-point edge for PSU.
The Rose Bowl looks like a long shot, but it's not every year MSU plays for a share of a Big Ten title. Go Green.
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Punt Block
Rittenberg is making a big deal about the punt block essentially saving MSU’s season and he extrapolates from that a general statement about MSU owing its success to special teams this year. Special teams have been crucial this year but I’m not really buying it, in either case. As far as the punt block goes, yes it was a big play but at that point the momentum was all in MSU’s favor and after a defensive stand Purdue was about to give the ball back on a punt from their own 13. The block made the winning touchdown a whole lot easier, but it also enabled Purdue to get the ball back with 4:24 and a chance to win it themselves. An actual game-deciding play came shortly thereafter when Greg Jones exploded into Henry causing him to throw the disastrous interception to Norman that sealed it.
I think the turning point
was when Purdue realized that they were terrible, and MSU finally realized this as well. Honestly, even though we are winning games, it sure feels like we are “backing in” to a new years day bowl game this year. We sure can’t come out with the level of intensity and focus that we did yesterday and expect to beat Penn St. The lack of focus and execution, especially by leaders of this team like Cousins is going to bit us sooner rather than later, as it already did against Iowa.
Also, I’m not a fan of Cousins “gosh, I’m really hurting here!” postgame comments. If you want to attribute making terrible passes and throwing off your back foot constantly (which bit us again yesterday) to injury, then let someone else play.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Nov 21, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Come on
Do you really think the team comes back in the second half with Maxwell at QB?
And it sure sounds like Cousins has been playing through injuries for a few weeks without complaining.
He was clearly playing hurt yesterday. Of course the media is going to ask him about it. How do you want to respond?
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 21, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Ridiculous
To me, this is just such a uneducated thing to say. I don’t normally like to tear apart people’s opinions but this comment is incredibly not smart. You think Cousins struggles with a lack of focus? Really? You are calling him out for saying his ankle and shoulder are really banged up? Really?
Are you forgetting that this team is 10-1? Some times I think that people are just trying to find something to complain about when they should just really enjoy a historic season that MSU hasn’t had in a long time. Would you believed me if I had told you before the season started that they were going to be 10-1 at this point? No, but you would have taken it in an instant. Well, the fact of the matter is that Kirk Cousins has played an unbelievably huge role in that. His numbers are good. But besides that, he is a winner. And sure he throws off his back foot every once in a while. But while you are busy complaining about that, why don’t you go look at his numbers in the second half of games this year. They are staggering.
So yes, he has some issues. But if you are complaining about Cousins’ performance yesterday, you do not know a whole lot about football.
by tubbabubba22 on Nov 21, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
An 'In Praise of Kirk Cousins' post
may be due. I’m not saying there aren’t flaws in his game, but the young man has been simply excellent in a number of crucial situations for this team. I still think that luck plays a disproportionate role in college football and that this team could easily be 8-3 right now, but it’s also true that KC (and others) have put the team in a position to benefit from some good fortune. That is no small matter.
If Cousins makes strides over the spring and summer, we could be cheering for a brilliant, Heisman-caliber quarterback next season.
At the risk of annoying tubbabubba
Cousins has been terrific in the second half this year, but he has frequently made a royal mess of things in the first half. All those gutsy second half throws, could have unnecessary in several games if he shows up for 60 minutes instead of just 30. His first half pick six this week was pretty indefensible.
I’m not putting down 10-1 and I’m well aware that Cousins has played a huge role in making that happen. I just wish we could see some improvement on things that he has struggled with since last year. A truly elite QB goes into the offseason (or bye week) and tries to fix that. Cousins, to this point, hasn’t.
Wow, man. Just wow.
That was a sports radio special kind of comment, I’m sorry to say.
Try this...
Go up to Brett Favre and tell him “you are making terrible passes and throwing off your back foot constantly because of your injuries. Let someone else play.”
I would rather.......
I would rather back into a 10-1 record than run face first into a 6-5 record. Period.
by GreenGiant77 on Nov 21, 2010 10:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
All of you seem to be missing the point of Ackbar's comment
He is upset at the performance of the team and Cousins this week, as we all are. Cousins was a major factor in a 9-1 team falling into a huge hole against a subpar team. Yes he came back and delivered the victory, as he has done several times this year, but he continues to make the same mistakes that put us in that hole. And Ackbar, and myself feel that is a dangerous habit, and a potentially costly one.
Lets say Dell drops that 2 point conversion, or Foreman doesn’t recover that fumble in the endzone and MSU blows a potential Rose Bowl season to an inferior opponent largely behind a horrendous first half from our star QB. You are all singing a much different tune then I promise you.
10-1 is great and better than I ever expected. Based on my experience, the fact is they don’t come around all that often, so to blow it would enormously frustrating. It is not that I am undervaluing 10-1, its that I value it so highly, I hate seeing dream seasons almost thrown away on teams like Northwestern and Purdue.
As for his injury, I don’t have a problem with his post-game comments, and in the end we did win so its all moot I guess. There is just a very disturbing pattern that is developing throughout his career now, and if anyone thinks MSU can win at PSU or against a quality bowl opponent with the Cousins that showed up today, injury or not, then I want some of what they are smoking.
But still
He completed 75% of his passes and had 4 total tds.
by tubbabubba22 on Nov 22, 2010 12:26 AM CST up reply actions
I thought they gave the rushing TD to Foreman
But thats besides the point. Yes he put up great numbers in the second half in the clutch against a very mediocre defense. Fact is, there should have been nothing clutch about his performance in this game at all. If we perform even remotely up to ability, then this game is never in doubt. His first half performance was bad, and that has happened frequently this year. If it happens against a big time opponent, there is a solid chance we don’t recover (see Iowa game). And, even if it doesn’t, this game could have gone either way down to the last 2 minutes. If MSU had dug themselves just too deep a hole, or our ridiculous karma had run out, and we blew a potential rose bowl trip on a decimated Purdue squad, everyone would be blaming Cousins first half as the reason. All I’m saying is, he deserves some criticism.
But MSU is 10-1.
Honestly, how much more costly could it get?
Lose to PSU? Without at least one major upset, MSU’s Cap One bound anyway, whether 11-1 or 10-2.
Lose in the Cap One? Will that cost us some draft picks next Spring?
I mean really. Can’t you guys enjoy a tremendously exciting comeback win without reading too much into it?
You act like a bad performance by Cousins in the last two games will have previous wins recategorized as “almost-losses” and MSU’s Final Adjusted Record being 8-5.
You are entitled to be unhappy with poor performances that result in “almost-losses”. I prefer to look at it like “this team finds ways to win games it would have lost in the past”.
Call me a slappy if you want, but I think 10-1 supports my position.
As I've said several times, I'm VERY happy with 10-1
And Cousins deserves a significant portion of the credit for making that happen. However, thanks to Cousins’ poor play early in games this year, you could pick 3-4 plays and this team could have 3-4 more losses, all to inferior teams. As we saw with Iowa last year, winning like this does not usually last. It relies heavily on luck. I’d like to see our team play to its ability level, which is hasn’t done for 60 minutes since the Michigan game, and Cousins is a huge part of that.
I mean really. Can’t you guys enjoy a tremendously exciting comeback win without reading too much into it?
Isn’t that kind of the point of this blog? Excessively reading into all things Spartan sports related? The team has been underperforming. Yes they continue to win, but I don’t understand why all of you are so quick to dismiss it.
You answer your own question
“…they continue to win”.
Win big. Win quick. Win early. Win late. Win a close one. Win ugly. Win in an epic comeback.
Just win.
One other point on luck
Some would say “good teams make their own luck”. That said, can you give examples of the “luck” they have relied on to win?
Typically, we consider turnovers as “random”, and a positive turnover margin as “luck”. MSU is +3 TO margin against FBS teams through 11 games. That’s not winning by luck.
MSU has made some daring calls that were successful. That’s not luck. That’s successful risk-reward decisionmaking.
The only other thing I can think of as luck is the blocked punt against Purdue, but as another commentor said, MSU had made the offensive adjustments to allow Cousins to be more effective (also expressed as “momentum had shifted”). If the punt had not been blocked, MSU was probably going to get the ball with a short field and was likely to score the TD to win. The blocked punt and wounded-Cousins scramble just added style points.
I guess my point is, some commentors are being nattering nabobs and pre-emptively looking for excuses to cushion the blow when MSU finally does lose, so they can say “see, I told you so, they always do that”. That’s SOS fan behavior. I had hoped that 10-1, with wins in every imaginable fashion, would kill that meme dead. I guess some old habits die hard.
Finally, why are commentors disparaging Cousins’ play? If Curt Schilling can be revered as a hero and a gamer for the “bloody sock” game, why can’t Cousins be praised to the skies for his gutsy play in bringing MSU back with a 22-point 4th quarter, capped by his heroic lunge to beat Purdue on a badly sprained ankle? I know that “heart” and “grit” and “scrappiness” and “clutchness” are sportswriter cliches, but watching Cousins hobble off the field after scoring the game-winning TD, how can you not apply any of those descriptions?
Wow ok
So, how they win is totally irrelevant? I thought this was a sports board. Anyone who has watched sports of any kind knows that when you continually let subpar teams hang around, it ALWAYS comes back to bite you. Fluke plays happen in sports. Whether its a crazy batted ball, a bad call by an official, or something else entirely unforeseen, I would categorize all of those things continually not happening as luck. And we’ve actually had some happen for us. Henry’s bizarre INT comes to mind. MSU continues to allow games to reach a point where those fluke plays can influence the outcome, largely thanks to poor first half performances by Cousins. That is notable. Is that so difficult to agree with?
Yes, he has been terrific in many second halves. And as I have said MANY times, and frankly am getting tired of repeating, 10 wins is great. It is awesome. It is better than I ever expected. But if you think that 10 wins is going to keep me from pointing out a poor performance when I see one, then you must have missed the point of the weekly biggie/slappies post around here, because that is exactly what KJ, LVS, and Pete are doing.
This is indeed a sports board.
And you of course are welcome to criticize any player you like for their performance. Though I tend to be a Spartan slappy myself, I enjoy the Slappies. I do get frustrated, though probably not as bad as you do, by slow starts and bad plays by MSU (even when there’s mitigating circumstances).
What I have a problem with is statements like this:
“I just wish we could see some improvement on things that he has struggled with since last year. A truly elite QB goes into the offseason (or bye week) and tries to fix that. Cousins, to this point, hasn’t.”
He can’t plant due to his sprained ankle. He has to throw off his back foot until that ankle heals. Yet some fans want to chalk that up solely to bad mechanics and coaching failure.
Cousins knows that his mechanics are suffering, and he knows what the root of the problem is, but he needs time to heal. Unfortunately, a wounded Cousins represents MSU’s best chance to win right now. I’d take a hobbled Cousins winning MSU two close games, over a green Andrew Maxwell — who knows what happens?
“Ackbar, and myself feel that is a dangerous habit, and a potentially costly one.”
Iowa excepting, it hasn’t been costly. MSU has won every game but one.
“Lets say Dell drops that 2 point conversion, or Foreman doesn’t recover that fumble in the endzone and MSU blows a potential Rose Bowl season to an inferior opponent largely behind a horrendous first half from our star QB. "
Let’s say the defense doesn’t give up an 80 yard touchdown run, or the defense makes another stop and only gives up 17 points to the Purdue offense, or Cousins doesn’t throw an admittedly terrible Pick Six, and MSU wins by 18.
“I hate seeing dream seasons almost thrown away on teams like Northwestern and Purdue”
Almost thrown away?
“you could pick 3-4 plays and this team could have 3-4 more losses, all to inferior teams”
But they don’t have 3-4 more losses. They won those games.
“Anyone who has watched sports of any kind knows that when you continually let subpar teams hang around, it ALWAYS comes back to bite you.”
So far it hasn’t come back to bite them. They’ve won all the games but one.
Here’s what it comes down to: Yes, you keep saying you love being 10-1. But then at every turn you try to convince us that it’s a tainted 10-1 because it coulda been 7-4 or 6-5.
You do realize there are two games left to this season right?
And that Cousins is coming back for another year. Plus, as far as I can tell he’d like to continue playing in the NFL. Sports has a way of evening out, and only showing up for 30 minutes in a 60 minute game is a dangerous way to play football.
I’m not suggesting 10-1 is tainted. I’m suggesting that we almost lost a couple of games to inferior teams. That has implications for future games.
The injury point is fair, and I probably haven’t given him enough credit for that. But the fact is, unless he has been battling those injuries all season, even at the beginning of the year he continued to make ill-advised throws off his back foot that put us in bad situations.
I do realize that.
And I think we are talking past each other, honestly. I am saying that MSU is 10-1 and nothing is going to change that.
“And that Cousins is coming back for another year….”
Personally, I am very excited about one more year of Cousins. I recently looked at the scholarship chart; the young talent ready to move up next year is (on paper) even better than the talent this year. MSU has a brutal schedule next year but all signs point to continued success.
“Plus, as far as I can tell he’d like to continue playing in the NFL. Sports has a way of evening out, and only showing up for 30 minutes in a 60 minute game is a dangerous way to play football.”
That’s true. I’ve suspected all season long, though, that it’s as much part of Treadwell’s game plan to use all 60 minutes of the game; the first half to set up tendencies; then when the opponent adjusts, the second half is to break those tendencies.
MSU did pay for the disastrous start against Iowa. But now that Cousins has admitted that the injuries are causing his mechanical problems, it’s easier to understand how Tyler Sash jumped that route: Cousins hasn’t been able to put as much zip on the ball. Try throwing a ball (any kind of ball) flat-footed and you’ll see what I mean.
“I’m not suggesting 10-1 is tainted. I’m suggesting that we almost lost a couple of games to inferior teams. That has implications for future games.”
I agree that MSU came close to losing a couple of games to inferior teams. But they didn’t.
And I disagree that it has implications for future games. Each game is a collection of groupings of independent tests. What happened on a given play in the WMU or FAU or ND game is completely independent of what happens in the PSU game. The only event in the past that has implications for future games is the injury to Cousins’ ankle.
I don’t mean to come across as hostile to you; maybe I’m a bit too defensive of MSU. I’m just tired of years of not being able to enjoy Spartan success because there’s always some way to downplay it; to make it less worthwhile or tainted somehow. To borrow a phrase, I’m “all in for MSU” this year, and I’m sure enjoying the ride.
Thanks
Thank you for raising these points. I agree with almost every thing you said. I just don’t like it when people say “we easily could have lost 3-4 games this year.” The fact of the matter is WE DIDN’T. Last year it could have been said that we could have won 3-4 more games, but we didn’t. That point just doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense. Every player makes mistakes. No player is flawless. Peyton Manning, perhaps the best QB in the NFL just threw a pic to lose a game when he could have just kneeled and taken a field goal to tie. The point is, even though Kirk makes mistakes, he is finding ways to come back and win games. Why can’t we just celebrate that instead of pointing out only the things that have gone wrong or were close to going wrong?
by tubbabubba22 on Nov 22, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
to be sure hostility was not intended
I think the crux of our differences comes down to this.
And I disagree that it has implications for future games. Each game is a collection of groupings of independent tests. What happened on a given play in the WMU or FAU or ND game is completely independent of what happens in the PSU game.
I think you can most certainly find patterns from one game to the next, and one can use those patterns to make predictions about future outcomes. Ask the 2009-’10 Iowa team if the tendency to fall behind due to poor early play is something that has future implications.
Patterns and independent tests are two different things.
A football play is like a hand of poker. You know what you have. There’s an expected value of the hand you start with. However, it never plays out the same way every time: it depends on what the other guy has, position, chip stack size, pot size, and how the cards play out.
A poker player may have patterns: they may always play certain hands certain ways: always raising big with AA through AKs, always flat-calling in position with any other pocket pairs or suited connectors, always folding everything else. But the way AA plays out on any given hand is unrelated to those patterns.
A football drive is like a blind level or orbit: a grouping of independent tests (hands). Overall success of the grouping depends on the results of each independent test. Patterns may emerge, such as a player may always fold under the gun through the hijack, open-raise on the cutoff, open-raise or re-raise on the button, fold the small blind, flat-call in the big blind. But the way AA plays out on any given hand is unrelated to those patterns.
A football game is like a poker tournament: a collection of groupings of independent tests.
Those patterns may or may not indicate flawed strategy. It also may indicate normal variance, such as getting heads-up with AA early in a game, then seeing your (~80% favorite to win heads-up) aces get cracked by an inferior hand like 88 when the donk spikes a set on the flop and the turn and the river bring you no help.
not much of a poker player myself
But regardless, I think I get your point. I think your analogy has some holes and I’m not convinced. I believe we’ve reached an impasse, so I’ll just say agree to disagree. One thing we can both agree on, is that a superior effort against PSU is desirable. So go green!
You don't get full credit for digging out of a hole you created in the first place.
And while it’s not fair to blame all of it on Cousins, some of it (hello back-foot pick-six) certainly is.
Bradley-Terry ratings for college football and basketball
Because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Well, in that case...
Which is worse: Digging a hole, then coming back and winning by 4; or running out to a big lead and then “letting” the other team score but still winning by 4?
Does one gives you more credit than the other? The end result is the same: a four-point victory.
Crowd sounded good
Once the team started to come to life.
Was that “Go Green, Go White” chant loud enough for those who’ve been constantly complaining about our crowds this year?
it was pretty loud.
i was more disappointed by the copious booing. who boos their team because they kneel on the ball with one second left in the half? i was embarrassed by the crowd for that, not the volume of “we just won the game!” cheering.
Pretty sure we blocked a FG against Purdue last year
Did we also have a punt block last year too? Either way, I’m sure Boilermaker fans are ready to fire their special teams coach a week ago.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I have to point out....
I have to point out that if it wasn’t for me, MSU would have lost . I put on the "rally cap " mere moments before CLR’s pick to swing the momentum. I also persuaded one other person to do the same in section 16 row 5, thus saving the game and the season….You’re welcome
by GreenGiant77 on Nov 21, 2010 10:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I switched T-shirts shortly before that as well
Had gone with the Alamo Bowl T-shirt that saw us through the first 8 games. It didn’t work so well for Iowa, though (maybe I should have switched back after our game, after all, Iowa played brilliantly when I wore it three weeks ago), and I wore a sweatshirt at the Minnesota game. That wasn’t really an option down here in Texas (it’s still about 40 degrees too warm for that), so I went back to the old stand-by. Bad idea. Switched to the Champs Sports Bowl T-shirt, and voila.
Bradley-Terry ratings for college football and basketball
Because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
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