MSU-Washington Mini-Preview and Game Thread
by Con-T on Nov 24, 2010 2:21 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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PrintNo sooner had last night's disappointing loss to UConn drawn to a close than I deposited myself in the luxuriously-appointed media room at TOC Headquarters to analyze MSU's next opponent and produce this not-at-all-hastily-thrown-together preview. Go ahead and use this as the game thread as well. Although this is the Maui Invitational and not the Great Alaska Shootout, MSU faces their second team of Huskies in as many nights at 5pm EST (ESPN2 or ESPN3.com). The Washington Huskies are currently ranked 13th in the AP and 11th in the coaches poll and they return 57% of the offense from a team that made the Sweet Sixteen after winning the Pac-10 Tournament last year. (Stats courtesy of Statsheet.com.) They lost top player Quincy Pondexter to the NBA but everybody else is back and they have a solid group of freshmen, though it could have been even deeper had they not lost decommit Terrence Jones to Kentucky, the cause of some fan animosity in the last game. Prior to the Kentucky game Washington had been pounding opponents into powder with a rain of three-point shots (a scorching 45-102) to the tune of 1.31 points per possession. Even after being held in check by Kentucky in a defensive battle they sport an efficiency margin of 0.36 PPP. As has been pointed out, they like to play fast, averaging 80.5 possessions per game and even the Kentucky game was played at 75 possessions. Those kind of numbers translate to 100-something to 60-something blowouts, which is what they did in their first three games, and they come into the MSU game averaging a 97-68 victory. That's the kind of margin you wish you saw in MSU's games, not because it's fun (well, that too) but because it's historically what good teams do to inferior opponents.
Washington's defense has been pretty good too, averaging an opposition PPP of 0.85. They even held Kentucky to just under a point per trip, allowing 74 points in those 75 possessions. They've been OK on the glass, pulling down 68% of the available defensive rebounds, but some of their impressive numbers on the boards have been inflated by a crushing win over McNeese State, where they recorded a 55.6 OR% and 83.0 DR%. Opponents have an EFG% of just 42.5 and UW has been winning the turnover battle as well, with a Bo Ryan-like 14% TORate to the opposition's 25.8%.
Washington's top returning player is former Pac-10 Freshman of the Year and current Wooden watch-lister Isaiah Thomas - yep, he's another one of those speedy little guards at 5'9", 185#. He was actually the Husky most likely to shoot last year, ahead even of Pondexter, and used a healthy 26% of the available possessions. He hit 49% of his twos and was pretty good at getting to the line (47.5 FTR) but was a bit of a liability from outside, making only 32.7% of his 199 threes. This year, however, he's hit 8 of his 17 threes but is only shooting 45% overall while averaging 14 points a game. The most efficient front-court option is probably 6'9" forward Matthew Bryan-Amaning, an athletic shot-blocker who is hitting 54% of his shots (all twos) and pulling down rebounds at a pretty good rate (7.25 in 20 minutes per game). The other primary scorers are Justin Holiday, a defensive specialist who has been hitting 42% of his threes this year, and sophomore point guard Abdul Gaddy, whose shooting has improved markedly this year (56%, including 4-9 from three). Guess what? They have a 7-foot transfer player from Senegal, Aziz N’Diaye, who's a shot-blocker and rebounder with limited offensive skills. Groan. MSU will need to keep him off the glass with more success than they had against Alex Oriakhi and Mamadou Diarra. So far this year he's averaging 7.5 boards, (3.5 offensive) and 2.5 blocks in 18 minutes per game. He's hitting 39% on his free throws.
Ken Pomeroy is projecting a 78-77 Washington victory in a 76-possession game. This is likely to be a nerve-wracking game for MSU fans (haven't they all been so far?), as Washington will likely try to push the pace, play aggressive defense and force the Spartan guards into fast-break-producing turnovers. State will need to reproduce the perimeter defense they showed against UConn, as opposed to the version from the three previous games, to avoid suffering the aerial bombardment from beyond the arc that the Huskies dropped on Virginia. But Thomas is a dynamic player and he's a danger to slash inside if the defense is spread too wide to take away the deep shot. The Spartans might also be well advised to slow it down a bit and try to take it inside themselves, as last year Washington was one of the most foul-happy teams in Division I, giving their opponents a robust 45 free-throws per 100 field goal attempts, highest in the Pac 10 and one of the highest in the country. That number has even risen to 53 so far this year. With the likely pace of the game, the desire to conserve Kalin Lucas and the need for players who can attack the rim and make foul shots, this strikes me as a game where Keith Appling could make valuable contributions. In any event, they will also need to make some defensive adjustments to minimize the impact of N'Diaye, who looks like the type of player who has given them problems to this point. Here's hoping they close this Hawaiian holiday on a high note before returning to the comforts of home.
Go Green!
BTW, KJ's preview, appealing in it's brevity, can be found here.
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Lucious
According to Izzo, Korie Lucious has an ankle injury and is a gametime decision.
Just lovely. This is a game we really need him for: up-tempo opponent, Lucas probably can’t go 30+ for a third straight day.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 24, 2010 3:39 PM CST reply actions
My thoughts
on the upcoming game, and season can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sFej5pnVXI
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Nov 24, 2010 3:42 PM CST reply actions
Good for them
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 24, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Not a whole lot of hustle
shots are falling though. Nothing to egregious since I started watching
Payne just looks confused
should have exploded to the hoop there
Payne getting beat to everything
Loose balls, rebounds, position… ugly. Some better team defense today though.
I think they are playing harder
And with more passion and desire than they have over thepast few games. It feels like they have something to prove.
Big props for MSU's fans that are there
Actually making noise and not just being stuffed shirt types
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
forced a rushed shot
a few minutes ago with a speeded up shot clock count. Pretty funny.
very sloppy
Just flashed a stat that said 9 turnovers so far. On pace for 35 ish.
11 now
This has the classic signs of another November loss. Poor offense, turnovers and the opponent is making highly contested shots.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
not that highly contested
last few trips have been pretty open
I'm exhausted
This team has exhausted me in the first full week of the season. I cannot believe they are playing so soft. Maybe a significant drop in the polls will wake them up. Somehting has to, right?
I used to be angry at Paul Davis because he never posted up
Fact is, we never post anyone up. Every once in a while we give Green a go and that is it. Let’s isolate for Payne. See some of that talent at work.
MSU is a double digit loss team
that won’t be going anywhere in the tournament unless they get Payne and Appling playing at a high level. Too many limited players on the floor.
everyone is playing bad.
They should probably look themselves in the mirror. It looks bad, pathetic and all the other adjectives that can be used now. They can’t rebound, can’t shoot free throws, no dribble penetration, Turnovers…can’t start..we need to leave Maui right now.
13 Turnovers
In one half. This has been going on for a few years now.
It’s hard for me to believe they ever do anything to address this in practice.
Can this game be forfeited.
We need a miracle..Lucas is no where to be found.
Have they practiced yet?
This might be the worst 2 1/2 game stretch I’ve seen in the past 10 years. They look like they just started playing together. Yuck.
Coming from a UW fan
I think there is a bit of overreaction here. After halftime I am sure you guys will regroup and make a game of this. MSU has too much talent to lose like this.
overreaction
we’ve seen nothing these three days to hint that they’re just going to “regroup” with a 15 minute peptalk. Sure, they’ll win a boat load of games this year, but one year I’d like us to be competitive right from the start of the season.
No
there won’t be a boatload of wins this year.
this team stinks
no leadership and guards are struggling.
Can we change the ACC/Big ten challenge and play Virginia??
Bad combination of Duke and Dick Vitale and a masacre looming ahead on Dec1
This is beginning to take on the hues of a lost season.
All the injuries, Allen’s dismissal, This is just a disaster.
the ref on the sideline is screwing us.
can someone take a swipe at him.
Everyone take a deep breath
Long game, long season.
by TMadison25 on Nov 24, 2010 5:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I guess the only good thing...
this is all coming to the fore right now. Maybe some of it can be fixed.
And Allen’s defense. He had the size and speed to keep up with guards and was very solid last year on D.
by SpartanBoiler on Nov 24, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't all Nix's fault
Time for everyone, including the coach, to figure out how to fix this. Significant underachievement aso far this season.
TO's
Summers, Roe, Sherman, Thornton…..8 pts, 7 TO’s.
criminal is on TV.....Doug Gottlieb..
genuine MSU hater..
He must be the happiest man in America.
Truly has a hatred for Izzo and Michigan State. Takes absolute joy when we have problems. Not sure what that’s about.
Disagree
He’s speaking the truth. This is a final four team returning most of their roster playing like a bunch of cream puffs. What’s he supposed to do, pat them on the back?
True
But he ALWAYS hates on MSU and MSU typically proves him wrong. Not this time. Maybe he’s a Wisconsin fan (He’s from Milwaukee).
Way around the bend saying we had no business in the Final Four.
Not sure how a team with that many injuries can be considered fortunate, outside of the KU loss.
Bad Team
7th place in the Big 10, an 11 seed.
No Heart, No guts.
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:05 PM CST reply actions
Similarities
Sometimes teams don’t live up to expectations. Can they get it together? Absolutely. But, right now, this is a 7th place Big 10 team at best.
That’s where we are at right now. Certainly it could change. Then again, it may not.
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
Talking about actual on court stuff...
not mystical psychological stuff. None of us know these guys.
OK
Hustle- How is it that we can get beat to so many loose balls?
Rebounding- We usually have the best rebounding team of any team in the country. That seems to be lacking. It’s a surprise how many time we do have good position and just get beat to the ball.
Turnovers- Where does this carelessness come from. I know it’s always been a problem, even on some of the Final Four team, but with this one, it’s an epidemic.
Post Players- Sherman has the one move. Roe (except against South Carolina) doesn’t seem to be able to contribute much. Payne will be good, but clearly lost a lot by being injured this summer.
Defense- just not the usual Spartan intensity. I have to believe that Izzo can bring this out of the guys, but I haven’t seen it yet.
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Again… Looooonnngggg season. We looked horrid against Maryland last year, UNC in past years. Let’s all just relax a bit. Sheesh.
yeah
I have a tenency to overreact, but that half was tough to watch.
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Doug Gottlieb..seriously says this team is the reason that Izzo was planning to leave.
Are retarded allowed to be on TV…ask ESPN…
He basically said
that it was a fluke that MSU got to the Final 4 and that we are seriously flawed.
Bite me Gottlieb
He has some good points, but he was borderline unprofessional there.
There’s clearly a personal bias.
if you actually say "I am not a hater"
methinks he doth protest too much
He's got a point
How can a final four team play so uninspired three straight games allowing other teams to push them around. I’d imagine Izzo is the most baffled of anyone as where these kids’ pride is right now.
He also said that they probably will get it together.
He's a mean spirited, arrogant ass
Who is destined to remain at the kids’ table for his whole career.
I am going in a scientist mode and cloning 5 Draymond Green's.
or put some super glue in everyone’s hands.
Does Summers know that he is not in IM West.
Sherm
I’m willing to cut Sherm some slack. Nix isn’t there, Roe isn’t playing well, Payne is so timid he’s not even seeing the floor. But yeah, Green and Lucas are trying.
mess
So we can’t rebound, we can’t play D, we can’t set up our offense, we can’t post up, we don’t get lose balls…
…but we can hit jumpers….sometimes.
not the MSU I know, other than the November choking.
I wish Travis Walton was in Maui, he’d have killed someone by now.
Whatever Gottlieb thinks doesn't matter
This team has to do its talking on the court. If they play like they are capable of playing, they’ll shut him up.
Only 5 guys have even attempted a shot
While 8 have turned it over at least once.
This is a team with zero confidence at the moment.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 24, 2010 5:19 PM CST reply actions
I don't think Durrell Summers likes basketball.
How you can put up this level of garbage game after game is beyond me. Play like you WANT to be out there, for cryin’ out loud.
Come on. Don’t throw players under the bus like that.
by SpartanBoiler on Nov 24, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Roe??
Anyone else tired of waiting for Delvon Roe to show up?
Roe
apparently izzo is as he didn’t start the second half.
He’s undersized at the 4 and w/o a strong five he can get exposed, especially on D.
damn crap refs...
msu does that and it’s a foul.. washington does it and it’s a tie-up.
i know the old white hair ref...is a jerk
by spartynation on Nov 24, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
refs
Jim Burr, Ed Hightower, and Ted Valentine have been bringing down the big ten for longer than most of us have been alive.
Like that backcut offense
Especially with a gifted passer like Green
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:27 PM CST reply actions
This game may go a long way in determining the momentum of this season
Do we fight back or unravel. I vote for fighting back.
Nice response so far.
Wonder if Gottlieb’s comments were piped in.
Joking. Let’s see if we can keep the momentum.
Man..
Start to get some momentum.. then come down and don’t even get a shot off. just like UConn game. go from good run to not so great at all.
We had too much momentum..
wiped out that 10 point deficit.. time to dig another hole.
Those guys can't play the whole game
Unfortunately, they’re the only two players with any confidence right now.
Can’t win a basketball game with two players, regardless of how good they are.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 24, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
Is the ESPN update that far behind?
I’m seeing UW 52, MSU 51. What game is everyone else watching? It sounds like we should be down 20.
Hey! I'm tryin' to eat lunch here!
We won that 4 minute segment
Now let’s win the under 12 to the under 8 segment.
What the hell is this lineup..
we have one semi-scorer in lucious.. that’s it.
The Trap is really effective against us.
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 5:46 PM CST reply actions
Sure would be nice..
if kalin hits then. then msu actually gets a STOP and has a chance to BUILD a lead…. seems every time they tie it up they break down something fierce on the other end.
I have that as his first one...
amazing how he seems (needs) to be involved in everything.
by spartanbballfan on Nov 24, 2010 5:54 PM CST up reply actions
The Pac-10
Is pretty bad. Arizona is the only real competition UW will face this year. The other teams will be steamrolled.
MSU deserves to lose..
common… 3 MSU players w/ the ball directly next ot them and they give up a 3
but not smart
I could go out there and fight hard.
Oh boy....
Man, if Lucas can’t go the rest of this game, I would feel really bad about this if UW pulls it out. Tough break :(
Love they called a foul on Lucas there too
god bless these refs
So.. lucas out..
game winner by Lucious? yes please?
Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber...
You go and do something like that….. and completely redeem yourself!
stops
now would be a good time for the first big D stop of the season
my poor heart
… NEED A BASKET!
then i’ll feel ok :-)
Durrell
Nice to see you. I hope this spurs his confidence
by eriksmithdotcom on Nov 24, 2010 6:13 PM CST reply actions
sweet merciful crap...
can’t catch a break.
Need to stop a 3 at all cost here.
Time to
get a stop, get the rebound and hit FTs. Like a Spartan Team
goddamn bullshit...
sorry for language — that was a damn jump ball
I hate when an official nowhere near a play
Basically overrules the guy on top of it who called nothing
thank goodness
i take back all my hating Lucious.
2-1
played like garbage and got 2 W’s. Not bad. Now it’s time to practice, practice, practice….
OOOMMMMMGGGG THE SKY IS FALLINGNGNGNG1!!!!!11!!!!
Or it’s college basketball. Have faith in Izzo and the team.
I just YESSSSSSed on a quiet plane. Embarassing.
In other news, free internet on Delta flights from now until January…
Awesome in that it drew attention from the guy in the OSU sweatshirt down the row from me...
so I could politely ask if his team could lose on Saturday.
Get your asses back to the mainland immediately.
Well done, gentlemen. That win will look very good in March. No one will care what it looked like.
Nice job of pulling it together in the 2nd half...
and overcoming all the bad mistakes throughout the second half to hand on for a W. Ugly — but a W is a W.
Afterglow thread is up
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Nov 24, 2010 6:27 PM CST reply actions
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