Aftermisery Thread: Butler 52 - Michigan State 50. Season Over.
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:36 PM CDT
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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PrintYour Spartans bow out to Butler 52-50, in one of the most frustrating basketball games I've ever seen. MSU played phenomenal defense down the stretch, but was ultimately done in by a failure to make shots--both from the field, and from the line.
We'll have more time later to reflect on this great season. For now, this hurts too much. Drown your sorrows here.
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MSU earned that L...
disappointing… MSU probably had the best opportunity Izzo is going to get in the rest of his carreer for another championship.
Best until next year, you mean.
We ought to be significantly better losing only Morgan, getting Lucas back and Roe hopefully healthy.
Lets be realistic...
getting to the final four takes a lot of luck – not just talent. It is very likely that Izzo never even reaches a final four again. Especially once they expand to 96 teams it’s going to be a crap-shoot. Izzo likely will never have a chance quite like this again (with no elite type teams standing in his way from start til finish).
No?
We are extremely spoiled as MSU fans. Think about how many teams/programs don’t make it to final fours… or have gone really long times without making it (Kentucky now going on 12 years for instance). Final Fours just don’t happen every year… MSU could very well have a much better team next year and not come close to the final four.
How many of those programs have Izzo?
Sure, it could be his last trip there. But would you seriously bet against him at this point?
No.
Why is it relevant that we’re spoiled? Tom Izzo is one of the best coaches ever. Of course he’s going to do things other teams simply cannot.
Very likely? Not at all likely. I’d put the over/under on Tom Izzo’s return trips to the Final Four for the rest of his career at 3.5. To say with a degree of certainly that he’ll never get there again is silly.
Izzo himself shares my viewpoint...
He is pissed because he knows he very may well never get an opportunity like this again.
How much of the anger is aimed at the refs?
Not listening to the press conference, watching the second game. But I would figure it hurts much more to lose a game where you could have done better AND you got royally hosed by the refs than just to lose one where you could have done better. The latter, eh, stuff happens. It’s unfortunate, but we were somewhat lucky to get as far as we did. But when the other team plays poorly, you don’t take advantage, and every call goes against you, you’re pissed at the refs and you know you could have won anyway, which makes it doubly irritating – everything had to go wrong for you to lose, and it did.
"Very" is probably an overstatement
But, yes, you never know what chance might be your last. Next year’s team could very well be Izzo’s most talented. Only means they have a chance, nothing more. Could just as easily be Kentucky, Kansas, or Syracuse next year.
I hope you're joking.
That’s about the most off-base comment I’ve seen on this blog. Are you a fortune teller? Have you returned from the future in a DeLorean?
That’s laughable.
I don't think it was a ridiculous thing to say.
I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the competition we’d have to face, and not about the quality of this team. We’ll have better teams than this one, but we may never see such a winnable bracket again.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
Disagree.
Making “probably” statements about future events that you have little information on is overly speculative, and designed to just be overly negative and make people who are already upset moreso.
I realize that this is a blog, not a court of law, but that remark seemed ridiculous to me.
"Making "probably" statements about future events that you have little information on is overly speculative"
This is the internet! That’s what we do!
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
I know, hence my last sentence.
Just didn’t find the comment the least bit constructive.
Boy, do I hope the Devils give those guys the beating of a lifetime. Beat ’em by 40 in their own city with the entire country rooting for them.
Congrats
I want to congratulate you on a great season. As a Texas fan I was at the game when we beat y’all and I remember everyone thinking Sparty was overrated, but tried to tell everyone I wouldn’t want to play them in March. Again, Izzo proves that he is the best coach in the country. Congratulations on a great season. I love watching Michigan State play and will always root for y’all.
Good luck next year.
'Til Gabriel blows his horn...
I was at that one too
Funny thing is, I left that game thinking Texas would be in Indy and hoping we would join them. Didn’t quite turn out that way.
Just have to congratulate MSU
My favorite Big Ten team other than Purdue. You guys did a hell of a job in this tournament
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Thanks.
The battles between our teams next year are going to be epic.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure I'm bummed, but we overachieved
Let’s hold our heads up high and be proud of our team.
Too many injuries
A lot of mistakes, but in the end we couldn’t compensate for not having Morgan too. Still a great season and anyone who is disappointed is crazy.
Estatic at how the season turned out...
disappointed how this game went. You shouldn’t lose to a team that doesn’t make a field goal in 12 minutes.
It kills me
that we held Butler on such a remarkable FG drought and they get one(!), one(!!!!) late that’s just enough to win it.
On a second chance.
If we get that defensive board, this game might have ended differently.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
That play is brutal. That, and Day Day getting clotheslined on a no-call, will be the plays that stay with me all Spring.
But we missed Free Throws
and we’ve been doing it all year. It was bound to come back and bite us.
The worst two free throw shooting games were this game and the Minnesota game.
Not coincidentally, lost both in very close games. Of course, I wouldn’t have minded if we had more chances from the line tonight . . .
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Izzo may be Mr. March..
But he is 3-6 in April
by Chris in Kzoo on Apr 3, 2010 7:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
A rather unfair metric.
But I’d venture that of the 6, this loss was the most agonzing.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I will never forgive the refs
for letting Green get speared/clotheslined without getting a foul called.
That hit would have been on a Strong Safety’s highlight reel
"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
More violent hit
That or MSU’s hit on Sandeman?
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Was the hit Ware got flagged for vs Iowa right
Prolly the Ware hit he had like 5-6 steps before he made contact. Butler guy only got to take 3 or 4
"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
That was a brutal no-call
You guys got hosed. Looking forward to some good Purdue MSU games next year.
Ever Grateful. Ever True.
by PurdueMatt on Apr 3, 2010 9:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That call was absolutely ridiculous.
Not only did they not call a foul, they gave Butler the ball, when it was painfully obvious that the Butler player knocked it out of bounds. If this was South American soccer, those refs would’ve been hit with a rain of urine bags and beer bottles, and they would’ve deserved it.
This is healing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B69umIClRqs
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
1st appearance since the BTT loss to Minnesota.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm still waiting for a good quality video of the "What's up Clown" song
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Rant dos
I’ve mentioned this before: I have tons of friends who graduated from Butler. I have to attend a Butler-heavy wedding in June. I spent many weekends on their campus. Rooted for Big Joel and the boys. Blah blah. Short of an MSU victory, I wanted to be able to say “Butler is a helluva team. They were better than us and deserve to play for the national championship.”
I can’t say that sincerely. I seriously can’t rally behind them after watching that game. At least with Duke, I get some t-shirts. Go Blue Devils. And my god have mercy on my soul.
Go Duke.
Easy decision for me at this point. Putting aside blind anti-Duke bias, there’s not much to dislike about that team.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Pete mentioned who wins the gift certificate if Butler is champs.
Also, I always thought Duke was an underrated team, even though called a one seed “underrated” sounds a bit outrageous. If I wasn’t lazy, I’d be curious to see what percentage of brackets picked them as champs. I know I’m in a significant minority. I’m in pools of dozens where I’m the only one.
Not watching either game
Problem more solved
"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
The 2nd game is probably just going to be background noise for me.
Too bummed out right now.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Tempting
In my MSU days, floor Halo parties would have started at the final horn because we all needed to vent our frustration by blowing stuff up, and we preferred the version of blowing stuff up that didn’t involve riot gear and tear gas.
I really wish Butler had truly earned this
The worst possible development for MSU was the game being called really tight. It was not only called tight but badly. And even getting 6 more FTA they still only won by the virtue of two non-calls. I don’t want to hear any more from the Mid-majority about MSU getting blessed by the officiating in this tourney. Butler played great defense, but they have the officials to thank for even being in this game.
They played their game.
It’s not like they had nothing to do with this.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
He did.
But I’d feel like a hypocrite complaning about that call after I defended the no-call at the end of the Michigan game.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
It's about 30th on the list of complaints.
The rules on a foul don’t change in the final seconds, but even competent refs seem to let more go then. Honestly, I wouldn’t complain about that one at all if not for the insane stuff they called earlier.
Press conference
Sounds like Izzo is trying to take his shots subtly (or not so) while being gracious.
“I’m a little bit ticked off.”
I really wish he'd let it go.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, he is really be plain about it
“Don’t take it as whining. You asked me a question and I gave you a man’s answer.”
Next Year
Luca healthy. Big Time recruits Payne, Byrd, Appling coming in. Nix with a college basketball body. The best coach in the country. We’ll be fine, and I’m a glass always half empty guy.
Izzo should be pissed off. It’s sad when a National Semifinal is decided on foul differential.
If the fouls are legitimate, there's nothing sad about it
Sometimes one team does legitimately foul a lot more than the other. But I get your point.
Look forward....
1. Roe has surgery and is all Big10
2. Lucious got a great taste and has all summer (unlike last year) to prepare
3. Green is our undisputed Leader and Lucas can quit trying to be someone he isn’t
4. Nix continues to lose weight
5. Look at our incoming Freshmen, best ever for MSU?
6. The light is on for Summers (hope it stays so)
7. Allen is our new best defender & Kebler gives depth
8. Sherman has the Soph. jump
9. Izzo won’t be going anywhere
10. The hunger is going to be there
Rant tres (I can go all night, right? This is what the thread is for?)
I ended the first half firmly believing that MSU was the better team. Still feel the same way and we lost. That is infuriating as well.
Juxtapose last year's NT game
No Spartan in his or her right mind watched the game and walked away with any impression besides “North Carolina is the best team in college basketball and deserves to win it all.” I miss that feeling now. I feel like we fell victim to a very unevenly officiated game. Sure, we shot ourselves in the foot with FTs, no doubt, but Butler needed those calls to win the game. They don’t get them, they don’t beat MSU most nights.
Again, Draymond, tackle, no call!
Co-sign
Getting thoroughly outplayed by a better team hurts, but in the end you just tip your cap and congratulate them. Playing badly, watching the other team play worse, and losing anyway because the refs couldn’t be consistent on both ends … that hurts a lot more.
That's a good way to put it. I've been searching for those words
Because MSU sure did do a lot to lose the game but that’s not satisfying in this one.
Playing badly, watching the other team play worse, and losing anyway because the refs couldn’t be consistent on both ends
I don't know if I've ever heard Izzo like this
He’s talking about whether it’d be worth 10-grand to say some things.
I 100% understand why Izzo took the route he did in the PC
but I’d love to hear his unvarnished, off-the-record opinion. It’d be priceless.
Izzo probably never felt...
he had the type of opportunity that was in front of him and lost it with such assistance from refs before.. he’s no dummy – he knows how rare this type of opportunity is..
Izzo Press Conference
When he’s that angry about officiating (which he rarely does) there HAS to be something to it.
I can only remember him openly questioning the officiating about twice before this
Ann Arbor ‘06, and I’m pretty sure there was another but can’t remember when.
Wisconsin 2005
The biggest robbery in Big 10 play ever. He was so despondent afterward, I thought he might just take another job to get away from Ed Hightower.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
All I remember about that one
is bricking the front end three times in a row in the final two minutes. Then blowing stuff up (X-box style) for about eight hours straight to work off my frustration.
And by Green.
Starting the half 0-4 was a killer.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Green's potential 3 point play late
That one too. He usually makes those.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
right from the start we were missing shots
that we usually make.
Missed chances ....
missed 3 bunnies and 6 FT’s in the second half, lose by 2. The team will be better next year and I’ll bet Izzo never has only 2 true point guards on the team again
From Kyle Whelliston (The Mid-Majority)
It’s for Temple 2008, taken out by a big 1st half run. It’s for Robert Morris 2009, which tried so hard but didn’t have enough. I was there.
It’s for NMSU 2010, which beat MSU by the rules but not in the eyes of the refs. Each call that went against Sparty tonight was payback.
It’s for Northern Iowa, up by seven at halftime and down by seven at the end. Every mid-major dream crushed by Michigan State is avenged.
About all I have to say is that, particularly in the case of New Mexico State, a small athletic department budget does not necessarily a virtuous program make.
I usually love TMM, but Kyle has been losing his mind during this tournament.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Kyle W
This guy is a journalist? Hold powerful programs who do things the right way responsible for mid-majors not getting it done? If you don’t want to play the big boys, then go back to DII.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
What the hell is Kyle smoking?
1) The lane violation was entirely legitimate, and might have been the difference between us getting the rebound or not.
2) That means NMSU is shooting for the win instead of the tie at the end. They still missed.
GMU never happened for him did it
Come on man.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I have been blocked by @midmajority on Twitter
Apparently for the following reply to one of the above tweets:
Congrats to Butler and all, but let’s not get consumed in ugly ressentiment over this.
It seems you have to drink the Kool-Aid if you want to participate in this discussion. Kind of ironic, really. I expected better of him.
The reffing in that game was downright weird
At times they seemed to be calling the game so very tight, but then they would let the cross-body block on Green go. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Butler fans were pissed off halfway through the game as well, as Howard picked up a number of phantom fouls too. I think we all would have preferred a free-flowing, if rugged game. Then, when we finally began to pound the ball inside—which I wish we had done more of, especially with Howard out—we either didn’t get the call, or missed a bunny.
Butler’s defense was impressive, especially their defensive rebounding (I think we only got about six offensive rebounds for the game). And Heywood is really good, both offensively and defensively. A tough one to swallow.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Apr 3, 2010 8:32 PM CDT reply actions
Agree
There were weird calls each way…. Silly reffing all around
No consistency to the calls
As soon as we started going inside, they stopped blowing the whistle on both ends.
Yes wbrianr
We need to Spartan fans to stop being so spoiled- Do we really want to drive Izzo away with our being petulant fans? Would anyone one of you give any of this back for a program that cheats (Memphis, Kentucky, Ohio State) or a program that has a 0% graduation rate with kids that clearly are not student athletes (Syracuse, West Virginia, Memphis)?
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I don't think anyone's pissed off at Izzo or the team
You tell me at the beginning of the season that we’re raising two banners but not bringing home the crystal basketball, I’m going to call that a good year.
We’re annoyed at how it ended, but no one is saying things need to get better.
I don't think it's petulance
I’m totally cognizant of how amazing this run has been, just bummed about how it ended. Nobody’s taking the FF appearances for granted.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
See comment below
Not trying to blame The Only Colors- you guys are great. Just speaking of the overall fan base. This has been a very constructive forum. It’s the only way I’m getting through this. I Have been tempted to light my couch on fore and throw it through my front window, though… :-)
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
We're good
I’ll take a Final Four any year with “good” talent as opposed to a Championship every 5 years with “great” talent. Izzo is great. State finished great this year. Losing is always disappointing, but we finished the season in the final 4 and that equals a great season. Plus, everyone but Raymar is back next year and we have a couple good looking recruits. I wouldn’t trade Izzo for anyone or any number of titles.
Hate to ask the question
But is anyone in EL? Nothing’s burning on Cedar Street, right?
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
they might all be gone
my cousin (who’s a student) actually went to a play tonight
Not according to this site
https://www.msu.edu/~creswel1/riotstatus/
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I'm exhausted. Nerve wracked etc.
Stone cold sober and going to go pass out.
It was ours for the taking and we just couldn’t get it done.
That being said the Green tackle was ridiculous.
In scores of other games,
Scheyer’s on fire (ha! rhyme!) for Duke. Thus, spawning the best tweet I’ve seen today:
RT @wesrucker Butler and Duke would be a title game only Adolph Rupp could love.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
Butler
Yeah, Butler’s student body didn’t seem too… diverse.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Herzog
LVS, any chance we could get Macallum or Zeigler if Herzog decides not to come back? Sorry, I know it’s off topic.
Herzog can come back
We don’t need anyone else and so what if Herzog hasn’t lived up to expectations?
Not a parting shot
Herzog’s been great in practice, and yes, we don’t need anyone, but as this tournament proved, depth is always nice. Herzog’s graduating in May, I’m not pushing him out the door.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Herzog can come back
That’s been made clear. Even mentioned it today in the LSJ. Whether he will chose to based on his preferences for a graduate path is undecided.
McCallum is almost zero, I’d think. MSU have never been a major player for him and it’s looking more and more like he’s headed to Detroit to play for his dad.
Zeigler is still a possibility. I wouldn’t believe anything you read. We’ll all find out in a couple weeks.
Intrpdtrvlr's the basketball recruiting guru around here,
so he’d know better than me. But my impression is that we’re still very much in the mix for Zeigler. I don’t think we’ve really been recruiting McCallum, but I suppose if Izzo has an extra scholarship he could make a late pitch to him.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, LVS
Speaking of, there’s enough guys on the radar to make a 2012 hotlist but I keep telling myself it’s too early even if in the contemporary world of recruiting, it’s really not.
Wait until the summer, I guess.
OK intrpdtrvlr
Make us feel good about next year (not that we don’t already)
What’s the skinny on Byrd, Appling and Payne?
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha, alright
Appling is considered one of the finest scorers in his class and is an aggressive two-guard being groomed for point duty. He’s a winner who possesses great confidence. In the McD’s all-star game he led his squad in shot attempts. That should tell you something. He should step in and contribute right away.
Payne is, like all big men, a project but think of him as a baby KG. He’s a consensus top 25 player. Excellent shotblocker with a developing offensive game that includes decent range. It’s safe to say that MSU hasn’t had anyone truly like him in some time. He brings something different than Sherman, Nix, or Roe. Again, will almost certainly compete for some minutes early.
Byrd is a tall (6’6" or 6’7") marksman whose size and shooting ability should make him very effective eventually. One of the best distance shooters in the 2010 class. He’s also put a lot of work into getting physically stronger. I don’t know. He may be all bench or he might be able to fight for some spot duty. I doubt he redshirts.
Don’t forget or underestimate Alex Gauna. Izzo holds him in high regard and calls him a “banger.” He’s got a lot of tools. He can ballhandle a little, hit threes, post-up etc. In terms of career arc, he may be the next Suton. Physically more ready to go already than G was. Still, a redshirt is a possibility.
Worth noting too that MSU is perusing some serious 2011 talent including nationally regarded players like Muncie’s Jeremiah Davis (PG/combo) and Branden Dawson of Gary, IN (wing).
I'm fine either way
but I think the following guys will be looking for time next year:
Lucas
Allen
Roe
Luscious
Green
Summers
Nix
Sherman
Appling
Payne
That’s 10 already and I didn’t mention Thornton, Kebler, Gauna, and Byrd. I think Gauna and Byrd might have to redshirt.
Don't forget Ianni
Transfer from GVSU is eligible to play next year. Haven’t seen him play, but he’s physically built better than Sherman or Herzog (both really bony guys) so I think he should be able to get in and bang around.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I can't imagine that
He’s a big body but we’re already talking about room being tight for Gauna. I would think Gauna will see game action before Ianni will.
Argh pet peeve
Clark Kellogg just called someone a “tough hombre”, except he pronounced it “hambre”. Which means “hunger”.
Dear SpartanDan
Thanks for reminding me why I’m not watching this game.
Duke. Huggy Bear. Clark Kellog. It’s the perfect storm!
Unproductive since August 21st, 2008.
by ReadingRambler on Apr 3, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
The Big Ten is going to be great next year.
I’m pumped.
Unproductive since August 21st, 2008.
by ReadingRambler on Apr 3, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Clark Kellogg
He must have Butler in his pool. He is the worst. Sorry but Morgan just like mid season Mr. invisable.
Every time I get frustrated with Kellogg,
I think, “we could still have Billy Packer.”
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Kellogg
Kellogg is so bad I’m only going to eat Post cereal, He could not even beat the President.
agree
But that’s a pretty low standard! They seemed absolutely gushy about Butler. And Kellogg was pretty short on any kind of analysis. one or two cliches repeated ad nauseum. He never mentioned that MSU was in constant foul trouble, but mentioned that Mack was out about fifteen times in the second half.
Yeah.
I hope we get Bilas eventually.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
"Kentucky is so long!"
Unproductive since August 21st, 2008.
by ReadingRambler on Apr 3, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
But probably not on the big stage— he’s still mainly an ESPN employee, and CBS and ESPN don’t seem too friendly. I’m surprised they let him work the tournament at all.
Completely unrelated, I’m going to miss Steve Lavin. They’d better find someone good to offset Brent Musberger.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but if the tournament expands to 96, everything will probably be on ESPN.
I said the same thing about Lavin a couple days ago. I’m bummed that he’ll be gone.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
LVS, I'm sorry
But I think I’d take Billy Packer. Kellogg is almost unbearable.
Unproductive since August 21st, 2008.
by ReadingRambler on Apr 3, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll take Kellogg's shallowness
over Packer’s haughtiness, stupidity, and casual racism.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I always had the ability to tune out Packer. Kellogg grates at me like no other commentator except Pam Ward. I can’t really explain it. Maybe it’s his voice.
Unproductive since August 21st, 2008.
by ReadingRambler on Apr 3, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you on this, LVS...
Packer was becoming an embarrassment, capable of sucking the very life out of the game at times. Once upon a time I actually liked Kellogg, but he has become hard to take (especially as he ascended). I don’t begrudge the Butler love though: it is a great story and I think I would be captivated by it were it not our team at the other end of things.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Apr 3, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
People expected WAY too much from Morgan
His reputation started as being a star on a team that featured Isiah Dalman and Maurice Joseph as significant contributors.
Morgan- Story of his career
I still think back to the 31 point game against Minnesota his sophomore year….
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
other comments
1. MSU did not seem that sharp; Butler seemed the hungrier team, on loose balls, and rebounds. I think the team got a little complacent;
2. Execution was very mediocre. Passing into the post was slow and lackadaisical, leading to about half a dozen turnovers. I’m surprised Izzo did not have them more ready to take advantage of the size advantage.
3. Allen had a lousy game. was the injury bothering him more than he let on? He really did not offer much, and had three turnovers in limited play.
4. The refs sucked. It’s not just that they were wildly inconsistent, but the fact is they called a kind of game that negated MSU’s size advantage. all of the MSU big men were in foul trouble through out. Classic bad reffing, where they had some make up calls in the second to even out the fouls; plus they never called the 5th foul on Morgan allowing him all the ticky tacky contact in the second half they had called him for in the first.
5. what a bitter sweet feeling. They should have won this game, and at the same time, they had no business having made it that far in the tourney.
Allen's been slow
since he got hurt. I don’t think he’s been much help.
Could've used the threes
I don’t think Allen attempted a shot either of the last two games. I expected to see a couple of three point set shots- boy, we could’ve used that.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he's pretty seriously hurt.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No doubt about that
Would have liked to see him on Haywood tonight if he was healthy. I know he would have given up four inches, but it might have spared Morgan and Green some fouls. Then again, with that officiating….
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."
Quote by Tom Izzo says it all.
I cant remember the last time Ive been this angry after the outcome of a game. If ever there were a team to help Izzo get title 2 next years team will be it. That team will have all the talent, Exp, and Pissed offness they nee to win a title.
I can picture Draymond doing pullups in jail with " F*** Refs" tattooed on his knuckles
"There are no next times when you're competing for big things." - Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
I wonder if this rhetoric is part of the problem, actually
MSU is “tough and physical” and runs the war drill. Butler plays “tight defense”. And—mirabile dictu!—officials call the game they think they see. One in which MSU is tough and physical and Butler plays tight defense. Good officials would recognize that “tough and physical” is basically synonymous with “tight defense” of course. But there aren’t a whole lot of good officials out there.
Mind you, I’m not criticizing Izzo’s practices. Only wondering if they should be combined with a rhetorical campaign that highlights aspects of MSU basketball other than toughness.
by njd on Apr 3, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Izzo would agree
In the press conference, there was a sense that he felt he’d been beaten at this own game.
agree
I never understand why Izzo brags so much about the war drill.
I don't remember him bragging
for a long time. I think every national media person has that as a go-to type question for him.
The third time was the charm in 2000
We missed too many free throws, however, the Green blocking “foul” was probably the worst call of the night. Fouls had to be 2 to 1. Reloaded, this team has all the motivation it needs for 2011.
21 to 17
I thought the same thing until I checked the box score.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
It's only fair to mention that
we actually got the benefit of a few questionable calls near the end of the game.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
make up calls
But the early fouls on Morgan set the tone. classic bad reffing.
Much like the lone late Butler FG,
I hate that! It’s true. It’s like it had to happen at the very end just to inhibit MSU fans’ right to complain.
we shot 55%
from the free throw line. 70% (which is still crappy) wins the game.
70% actually beats national average, believe it or not
We shoot better, we win. The refs call an even game, and we don’t need to shoot better to win. That’s what’s so frustrating – the way Butler was playing, everything had to go wrong for us to lose. And it did.
Just about always happens in poorly reffed games
Try to even it up late, when the game is almost-but-not-quite out of reach, to make it look less egregious.
2000 was the second of three
And I’d put the no-call on the clothesline when attempting to feed Green in the post as the worst call of the night by a wide, wide margin.
This team screams 1999 going into 2000 to me
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
Except that we were losing two key pieces
… both of whom were underrated nationally, thus leading to higher expectations.
Naw I think the 2009 team going into 2010 was diff in a couple of key ways
We switched to new leaders, We were happy to make 09 and didnt go out on an angry note at all. We also were not adding a J-Rich type impact to help make up for any thing we lost
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
It's not going to be easy, though.
A lot will depend on whether Summers comes back, and how well Lucas recovers from his injury. But the conference is going to be really, really tough next year. Purdue returns close to everyone, OSU will be really tough with most of their guys back plus Sullinger, and Minnesota will probably be quite good too.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Summers would be crazy
to leave….. like several other former Spartans…..
Why would Summers be crazy to leave?
His vaule is sky high, He was still our best spartan tonight with 14 points/10reb. He also really needs the money for his fam from what Ive read/know about it. He has a lot of potential.
Id be willing to bet he puts his name out there to see what feedback he gets
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
maybe 2nd round draft pick
doubtful that he’d end up with a guaranteed contract, but one more year and he’s probably a 1st rounder….. dunno. just don’t think he’s that good yet…..
Summers
I thought he’d have one foot in the NBA after the early games in this tournament, but he still is inconsistent and has trouble getting his own shot sometimes.
Can’t blame him if he’s going to be top 20 though.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I bet he checks it out.
He could break through next season, but he’s been so inconsistent. His stock may never be higher than it is now.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno
I’ve been hearing a lot about people trying to make the jump this year because they’re worried about a lockout in 2011-12. If that’s the case, he might be much better off waiting if it turns out that there isn’t a lockout – less crowded draft class.
Could be
That’s why I doubt he signs with an agent immediately. But if I was advising him, I’d say to at least take a look . . .
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
no problem checking it out
but he’ll be best served coming back next year. Lucas is still the most NBA ready player on the team and no ones talking about him leaving now….
Don't be sure
I don’t follow the NBA draft closely, but what little I have heard has been mid-second round. That means no guaranteed contract. If he gets assurances from someone that they will pick him in the first round, I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes, but it’s unusual for a guy to jump early if he’s going in the second.
will the team mature?
I’d love to believe that the team will come back hungrier next year, but I could just as well imagine Summers and/or Allen going awol again for long stretches, or “chemistry issues” to emerge. and the team still has to find a guy to play the 5. Don’t kid yourself, a lot has to go right to get to the final four, let alone to win it.
Allen going awol?
He was consistently getting better this year till he got hurt.
Both Sherman and Nix improved as the year went on. Giive both a summer to learn to play D better and to add/lose weight depending on the player and I think they will be fine. We also add a 5 star center that is a rare talent find the likes of which we have never had at MSU.
If Roe can get healthy you will be amazed at what he can do. If you saw him in high school you would be blowen away by some of his film.
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
Nix & Sherman
Nix has some skill, and with a full college training program in the off season, I could see him making some huge strides. I like Sherman too, and he’ll improve his physicality hopefully.
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's my rant.
We lost by two points.
We’re missing our starting PG.
We lost by two points.
Our starting SG is playing on a torn ligament in his foot.
We lost by two points.
One of our forwards is playing on a torn meniscus.
We lost by two points.
We lost by two f’n points.
Butler is going to be portrayed as some sort of giant killers, but we lost this game by two f’n points. That’s what burns so bad. When you hold a team without a field goal for 10+ minutes, how do you lose?
Anyway. Thankful for this year. Looking forward to next year. This team finally got it at the end. Here’s hoping they keep it together next year.
The sad thing
I that Duke is going to win another Championship.
typical Huggins team
great athletes, lots of hustle, no fundamentals.
A worse champion
Seriously, can anyone remember a worse (talent-wise) champion than what we are going to get this year?
by eriksmithdotcom on Apr 3, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly
I think Duke is really under-regarded for some reason. They’re a talented team with a good inside/outside game.
Think it's the recent chokes in the tourney.
That and being in a down ACC (relatively speaking, still a solid conference but they didn’t have another juggernaut to match up with), getting pantsed by Georgetown, etc.
They don’t feel like they should be a championship team.
They've been #1 in the KenPom rankings all season long.
I think at this point people see in Duke what they want to see in Duke. But truthfully, they rebound like fiends, and are incredibly efficient on offense. This is a good basketball team.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
sad
I don’t see how Butler could play with Duke…
Well, Nolan Smith looks like he might be hurt?
That’d got a long way for Butler. Then again, if Butler doesn’t have Mack, they’ll have problems of their own.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
If they play like tonight, they will lose by 50
They’ll never get the call on those out-of-control drives against Duke.
Another play I hated
The foul on Sherman when Heyward was bouncing out of control into the lane looking to bump into someone for a foul. It was incredibly early in the second half and I felt it really set the tone. As soon as it happened I said “uh-oh.”
Yup
That’s #2 on my list (behind the clothesline).
Doesn’t help that refs naturally assume if the defensive guy doesn’t fall down, it’s a block – and our bigs are way too tough to fall down unless they get absolutely bulldozed.
Also, this is a ridiculous technical.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Not especially
He was hanging on the rim for about three seconds with no one under him. I’m not a huge fan of the rule, but it’s there.
Emerging from the depression
A tough loss to swallow, but much of it was our own doing. You can’t miss four free throws and two layups in a row in a tight game. I was also surprised by some of the decision making on a few trips down iin the second half. For a seasoned team that is well coached, there was some poor execution. We should be gearing up for one more game, but the run was sweet and hopefully all the pieces will be in place for next year.
Also,
We missed Lucas so, so, so much in the 2nd half, and even because of the turnovers. How many times were we just desperate for a guy who could create his own shot? Summers was the closest thing we had, and he’s no Kalin in that department.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
Isn't it rough, LVS
You think you’re done and spent for the night and suddenly another thing pops up in your mind. Perhaps its a new thing or something you’ve already gritted your teeth over five times. But it won’t stop.
Yep. Keeps on happening.
At some point tomorrow, I’ll compile them into a recap, and that will be brutal.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
absolutely
anyone who believes a healthy MSU team would not have beaten Butler comfortably has not been paying attention. in the second half noone was willing to take an outside shot except for Summers and Green, and Green probably was well outside of his range.
Pace of game
The other thing Lucas would have provided are his one man fast breaks. I’m really struck by Duke basically almost never walking up the ball, and jsut putting this pressure on WVU. In comparison, Lucious basically always walks it up.
And when he doesn't, he often throws it away or dribbles off his foot or something equally bad.
Not as often as he did last year, or even earlier this year, but too often to be a solid PG.
yeah
I was rather upset that we played at Butler’s pace rather than trying to push things.
Agreed
My only frustration with our game plan tonight was that we didn’t push the pace more. Butler did a great job of shadowing Summers everywhere in the half court; really jammed up our high-low sets by quickly getting backside help (sometimes the kind that clotheslines the low man); and their guards were great at stripping the ball when we were lured into the middle (or picking off somewhat lazy dump downs). I wish we could have sped the game up, either by offering more pressure—as we did at the end—and pushing the ball up and getting into our offense early. We often got our best shots early in the shot clock.
I thought Lucious played really well, actually. Yes, he’s not Lucas, but then again, few are. Actually, I wanted him to shoot more tonight, once I saw that their pressure wasn’t really on-the-ball, but more about not letting Summers go off.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Apr 3, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
From ESPN. Oh, just as I remember it.
Here’s a moment we can nash our teeth about that was actually the product of Butler making an offensive play. I know those are hard to come by:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/9954/instant-analysis-butler-52-msu-50
TURNING POINT: Butler looked shaky. The Bulldogs couldn’t get anything to fall. Hayward had cooled off. And star guard Shelvin Mack was suffering from cramps in his hamstrings that kept him on the sideline throughout. It was 48-46, and the Spartans were coming; at this point, all that momentum, all that grind-it-out brilliance, looked ready to evaporate with a few unfortunate possessions.
And then Shawn Vanzant made a play. He drove baseline, found Gordon Hayward open on the corner baseline — just the shot the Bulldogs needed — and hit him. But Hayward’s shot missed, causing a scrum under the hoop. Vanzant not only rebounded the ball, he managed to whip a perfect little pass to Hayward — who had the presence of mind to leave his spot in the corner and cut furiously to the hoop — which Hayward finished despite contact from MSU’s Draymond Green. The basket gave Butler a four-point lead with 1:36 lead, a deficit Michigan State would never fully close again, eventually losing 52-50.
He's right, we were surging, I thought we had it.
and we almost did. Again, aaaarrgghhh!!!
Another quote from that article:
30.6 — Butler’s field goal percentage, a testament to how this team wins. It’s like they don’t need to score. Whoa, man. Whoa.
In there somewhere is our brightside
In the last game of MSU’s 2009-2010 season, no one got called for a foul in the midst of a blowout while being run over and receiving a foot injury that would cost him his entire summer.
RT @GaryParrishCBS Huggs to Higgins: “They don’t foul, right John? They don’t foul. All-American laying here and they don’t foul.”
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 3, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
It also totally sucked the life out of this game.
This is going to be a slooooow end to the game.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
I think
Steve Correll (from the Office) should play Coach K in a basketball comedy.
Also, to get Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison about things
Look at the trajectory of the ball. It flies to Draymond Green’s left front, same direction in which the Butler player is traveling. In all likelihood this is the result of one of two things – 1. The Butler player making contact with the ball and imparting force to knock in that direction or 2. The Butler player making contact with Draymond Green so that he knocks the ball in that direction.
It should either be a Butler foul or possession MSU. C’mon, man. Even Clark “Good Call” Kellogg repeats that there was a “lot of contact.” What does that tell you?
Silver Lining
I don’t think there is a player that was on that court tonight that won’t come back next year improved. I’m sure the that while the run was sweet, the taste is bitter right now. Each
Spartan knows what he needs to do to improve, and I expect each will be motivated to do so.
Downside...
Having all the talent in the world returning doesn’t necessarily mean much:
See: Kansas/Kentucky…
Getting to a final four isn’t just about talent — as Izzo has said a lot of times — there is a great deal of luck involved.
Exactly
That’s why I’m not reserving my ticket to Houston just yet. Final Fours aren’t decided on paper.
Yup...
Why Izzo was soooooooooooo pissed off during the press conference. He knows how much the refs screwed him over and how he may never be back where he was today and have an opportunity like this … One bad game next year and things could be over.. then they lose kalin/allen/summers…. and who knows how the teams do in the future from then on… may never make it back.
You seem unreasonably pessimistic.
It’s hard staying at the top, true. But would you really bet against Izzo?
Izzo's fault...
bringing up Jud and talking about the screw-job MSU had in the sweet sixteen and that was the last time he’d make it that far put things in perspective… Makes me very upset with those ridiculous refs… Izzo deserves better.
sure, there are tons of variables involved in getting to a final four
but the known quantities on this team – Izzo, the talent, etc. – lead one to believe that State’s chances to get back are better than most other teams
There's no guarantee
But this will be a better team next year, and to me, that’s important. I look forward to seeing a team that plays with heart and knows how to deliver the knockout punch.
We get it
Your Schick about killing any buzz going into next year is getting old.
The fact is If you cant see this team will have as much talent, Exp, and pissed offness as any team in the nation then your blind. This loss will sting much longer and hurt much more then lossing to UNC.
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
yea
sorry just getting a little angry dwelling. I fully understand that it wont be easy to get back to a FF.
Thus the reason “There are no next times when your competing for big things” was in my sig
"You think our war drill is something now. Next year is going to be fist fighting."- Tom Izzo
Go Spartans
So it's agreed then?
That this game shall forever be remembered for Draymond Green getting clotheslined and the result being OOB to Butler?
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
If you buy that uneven officiating was one of the principle reason's for MSU's struggles
then I believe that play is paradigmatic of the absurdity. Compare that no-call to the post foul on Allen or Heyward flinging himself into Sherman.
Pretty much
All three sides (us, them, refs) performed pretty poorly all night long, and that was the worst instance of the bunch.
Actual Good News
Our baseball team is currently beating Iowa 16-2 with two innings left. The game was delayed due to this afternoon’s rain. It’s going to be completed at about noon tomorrow before the next scheduled game between MSU and Iowa.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Okay, this is it and I'm going to bed
I just want to reiterate for everyone that Butler won this game despite only putting the ball in the hoop by means other than a free throw ONCE in the final 12:18. That is incredible.
And you can read “incredible” however you want.
G’night.
I can go all morning, too, right?
Seriously, I’ll move on with my life eventually.
However, I wanted to mention one positive next year: I don’t think there’s anyone poised to make as big and necessary step up as Korie Lucious. First, you have to believe he exceeded most people’s expectations during this tournament run. Yes, TOs were still a problem but the wheels didn’t fall off as many thought. Far from it. This tournament has been great experience for him.
Offseason should allow his improvement in every aspect of his game – passing, ballhandling, shooting, leadership, halfcourt sets, etc. Teams are going to see Lucas come out of the game and have a dynamite back-up PG thrown right at them.
I have to believe MSU is one of the most talented, deepest, experienced teams next year. That doesn’t assure you anything but it does put them in a great position to compete. We may not be 2009 UNC good next year but we have an opportunity to be close.
the Five
I agree that Lucious will improve; I worry that Lucas will not be the same player, as I hear that it is tough to come back from that injury with the same quickness.
Green will also improve his range, and hopefully he can lose 15 pounds to improve his hops.
Allen could have a monster 4th year, finally melding both offense and defense.
But you know what? the biggest issue for another final four run will be the emergence of a true center, or at least another big man. Izzo did a masterful job of covering up this weakness all year, but the team’s struggles against big teams, and its inability to dominate underneath against short teams such as Butler was pretty revealing. for that reason, the biggest issue for the team will be how much Nix and Sherman improve. For Nix, I think the biggest issue will be whether he can lose another 30 pounds. I assume his shooting range will improve (say from the current 3 feet by 3 feet each year he is in the program), but without losing weight, I just don’t think he can ever be really effective at this level, given his skill level and height.
I'm not too worried about the C
Sherman has showed great flashes. His moves to the basket when set up well are beautiful. I think he could have actually helped us with some more minutes in the Butler game (I said this before the game and was won over on his smooth look from Green) but who I am to second guess Izzo? Nix is never going to be a midrange jumpshooter but he can work on his game and give us that immovable object down low. I don’t think he loses much weight as much as he improves his conditioning and physique. In other years (2005) these guys both would have redshirted. Payne, with his athleticism, length, and defense, is going to offer something totally different than what we had this year. He’ll be a game-changer in moments.
In short, between these three guys (and a healthy Roe), MSU should be just fine down low next season and beyond. With some good Fr to So leaps, it might even be a strength.
I would actually say that the wing is the biggest source of question marks. Will Durrell continue to play at the best of his ability? Same for Allen – can he be that consistent defender and 3pt shooter he was at mid-season? Can Thornton be an every game contributor? How ready to play are Appling and Byrd? How badly will MSU miss Raymar’s versatility?
Still, if it even goes reasonably according to our hopes, this MSU squad should be a beast on paper. Chemistry and leadership needs to make sure that beast manifests itself on the court.
Next Year
If everyone comes back—and I think there is a decent chance Summers very seriously considers the jump after this tournament run—and the freshman are anywhere near ready for primetime, we will be freakishly deep next year: makes me wonder whether Izzo wouldn’t go to a much more uptempo, even harassing full court game plan, to exploit the athleticism, depth and offensive skills of this crew. If your Captain and arguably best player (Green), can come off the bench all season long, perhaps we can use this attitude to instill an “all-in” team approach. I feel like we’re always able to run our halfcourt sets with Izzo, but with Lucas, Lucious and Appling we have a chance to come at teams in waves. We often are told that “THIS year” we will really push the tempo, but often in the end we are not able to because of concerns about depth and the style of play in the Big Ten. But next year could be special in that regard.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Apr 4, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
The Hayward "Block"
The jpeg is too grainy to post. Check out the Free Press “Tough loss”. Hayward got all wrist.
Yeah, but that doesn't get called in the final 10 seconds of a game
There were bad calls and bad no-calls in this game. But Draymond Green is not going to get that call in that situation. No one in college basketball is. If he’s closer to the basket, maybe, but only maybe.
If we make one more free throw – that’s all, just one – then this thing ends differently. That’s really what the game comes down to.
Did you watch the game against Tennessee?
Raymar got clubbed with 2 seconds left,and the foul was called. QED.
Gotta disagree. Morgan got was mobbed right by the hoop.
Raymar got hacked by two guys and didn’t get a release. Green was not nearly that close to the basket and the contact in real time was nowhere near as egregious. College refs will not call that.
Morgan got tackled by two guys
Green got hit on the arm by one. Both should have been called, but the former is impossible to overlook and the latter routinely is (at that point in the game).
Don't look at this picture. It's not grainy, it's clear.
Because I really want to agree with everyone who says “you can’t call that amount of contact in this scenario.” That’s how I felt watching the game and that’s how I felt all last night. However, when I see the photograph that’s floating around the MSU boards I almost want to change my opinion to “well, I think you have to call that regardless.”
Click at the risk of your MSU sanity:
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=C4&Dato=20100403&Kategori=SPORTS07&Lopenr=4030807&Ref=PH&Item=3&MaxW=600&MaxH=450&border=0&Quality=100
the no call...
Actually, I really was surprised that it wasn’t called (and I am not one of those who attribute the loss last night to the refs). In real time, the shot came up SO short, and it was reasonably clear even at the time that it wasn’t blocked since, as this photo shows fairly clearly, Heyward wasn’t as high as Day-Day at the apex of their jumps (with Heyward falling backwards), that the whole sequence LOOKED like a classic hit-on-the-wrist foul. As we well know, a lot of stuff gets called because it simply looks like a foul we’ve seen many times before. I’m not arguing whether it was or was not a foul—probably it was—but it certainly “appeared” to be one.
But, I agree that it would have been the ballsy call nevertheless, although considering all of the other phantom calls during the night on both sides, it was a bit surprising that they swallowed the whistle on this one.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Apr 4, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Tennessee game....
Green got called for a foul on a jumper by the Tennessee player with about 11 seconds left…..was almost a mirror image of the play in the Butler game.
When a 15 foot jumper winds up 4 feet short of the net, something got hit- either the ball or the hand. Watching the replay, it is painfully obvious it was all wrist on Green’s shot.
That's about 10th on the list of gripes with the officiating
Wouldn’t complain (much) if they hadn’t been calling such abusrdities earlier – that’s the sort of thing that regularly gets ignored in the final seconds, even though it shouldn’t. (And we were the beneficiaries of it on at least one occasion during the season.)
That said, after looking at the picture, maybe it should be higher. Still nowhere near the flying tackle in the post or Hayward playing bumper cars at the other end and getting the call every time, though.
Eh.
I think in that situation, it has to be a pretty substantial hack to be called. It was a foul, but it wasn’t a screamingly obvious one, particularly at full speed. We got the benefit of a semi-marginal call against Tennessee, but lightning didn’t strike twice. Of all the ridiculous things that happened during the game, this isn’t the one (or even one of the few) that’s keeping me up at night.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
There was nothing marginal about Morgan having two guys hack him
The first one might have gotten all ball, but the second mauled him.
Agreed, though, that this isn’t anywhere near the top of the list.
Grist for the agony mill:
RT @SethDavisHoops I asked Gordon Hayward if he fouled Draymond Green on that last play: “Dude I got his whole hand.”
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
by LVS on Apr 4, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
In other personal news,
I’m going to forgive my numerous Butler friends for not knowing how to win yet. See, you talk mad smack before the game then, once it’s over, you do your best to be gracious in victory or defeat (especially in victory {clears throat}). You do not pollute your MSU friend’s Facebook with yet more smacking talking and rub-ins. Haha.
Baby-Faced Assassins
I hereby declare Gordon Hayward the Baby-Faced Assassin. I think if the B10 needs a 12th team, Butler should be it. The mistakes that MSU made all year against other similar conference foes cropped up again, and unsurprisingly. Still, the future is bright and the past has been incredible. I look forward to 10 years from not saying 6 in 12 years but 12 in 24 years.
if basketball were king of college sports, possibly
but football is on top, so Butler wouldn’t even be considered
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