New Offers and New Targets - Basketball Recruiting Round-Up 8/4
by intrpdtrvlr on Aug 4, 2010 4:25 PM CDT
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As has been discussed extensively in the comments, the MSU basketball recruiting picture got a shake-up in the past week when it became widely reported that 2012 Lansing point guard/wing Denzel Valentine had received a scholarship offer from Tom Izzo and Michigan State. With the high number of perimeter players already committed and prospects like Branden Dawson and Gary Harris high on MSU, many believed Valentine was in the group of players who would have to wait and hope for a Spartan offer. However, an outstanding July brought lots of attention to his Lansing area standout and produced offers not only from MSU but Butler and Wisconsin as well.
On top of this surprising (and for me, positive) development, a few recruiting links have popped up and we can move our general discussion here for August. Let's look to the future...
Conflicting reports too numerous to mention surfaced that Jakarr Sampson had or had not named a top 3 of Baylor, Kansas, and St. Johns. Whether these schools lead for Sampson or not, the important point for MSU fans is that the final choice of official visits (he has five to take) and MSU's possible inclusion will reveal the presence of smoke or fire in MSU's involvement.
Gary Harris continued to play well and show why he's a consensus top 25 sort of player. According to InsideTheHall, he not only showed a complete offensive game at the End of the Season Showdown, but he proved himself to be a hardworker on the defensive end as well. Sounds like an Izzo player to me.
Branden Dawson testified to Tom Izzo's dedication by mentioning that he was in the stands for every one of his games this summer. Izzo has said that you can tell who he's recruiting by what games he attends and that nugget indicates that Dawson probably has a scholarship offer all the way into next April if he wants to wait.
We can't forget about already committed players and the Spartan family received good news when Branden Kearney was added to the roster for the USA Olympic Youth Team. He'll be representing his country and future university in Singapore starting next week.
Already noted in the comments but Brian Gregory and Dayton raided the 2011 Michigan class and picked up verbals from both Detroit Southeastern's Percy Gibson and Lansing Eastern's LaDontae Henton. Those are two guys who weren't quite up for MSU offers but are going to be major assets in the A-10. I'm particularly excited to see Henton develop into a major contributor for Dayton.
I've said a lot in the comment threads already but my thoughts on the Valentine offer go like this: First, with his family's extensive involvement with MSU and his father's playing time under Jud Heathcote, MSU has to be the prohibitive favorite to land his services. Proceeding from that assumption, a few ideas -
1. MSU has a new primary recruiting question. For me, it's not longer who is going to back up Keith Appling at PG. Between Kearney, Anderson, and Valentine, the minutes will be there to spell KA until the next true point guard arrives (2013?). For me (and others based on your comments), is how thin does MSU want to run on the post roster? Do you only take one of Matt Costello or Mike Shaw in order to keep room for both Gary Harris and Branden Dawson? If players like a beefed-up Russell Byrd and combo-forward like Kenny Kaminski can help down low, the risk is lower but an early exit by Adreian Payne or an injury could deplete the MSU frontcourt quickly under that scenario. That said, both Harris and Dawson may be too great of talents in their own rights to nitpick about roster balance.
2. I think the suggestion that Izzo "doesn't really want" Valentine or wishes he didn't have to offer him but did so to deny John Beilein at UM is pretty far-fetched. Yes, you don't want to see the best in-state players go to your rivals. Yes, aspects of UM's struggles help MSU recruiting. However, first and foremost, a player Tom Izzo offers has be able to play and play well for Michigan State. You don't attempt to fill your wing roster with Denzel Valentine when athletes like Harris and Dawson are out there unless you 100% believe that he'lll be an asset to your team on this own merits. Besides, if this line of reasoning mentioned above was accurate, MSU would be all over Javonte Hawkins too and there's not indication that's happening. Izzo offered Valentine because he's a top notch player and a legacy.
P.S Teaser - what do you think about discussing high school students' Facebook updates? I think it's kind of weird, but to each his or her own...
This is a FanPost, written by a member of the TOC community. It does not represent the official positions of The Only Colors, Inc.--largely because we have no official positions.
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Basketball Recruiting Round-Up
I think these are great points, and I agree MSU needs to gear more attention towards big men. The late 90s and 2000 team had several big men that could provide low post scoring. Since then Izzo has struggled to find impact big men to add to his roster. Zack Randolph was great, but he left early, and Paul Davis took four years to finally develop. Other than those two players its hard to speak of quality big men that Izzo has had. Roe(slow progression due to injury), Green(more likely to be on perimeter and run offense through him), Nix and Payne have the potential to finally provide solid low post scoring, but the horizon looks slim. While I think guards rule basketball and a center is becoming an extinct position, it still seems odd Izzo hasn’t been able to target and successfully find better big men. http://puremichigansports.com
Davis was effective
his sophmore year and was a BEAST in his junior year in the tournament. I still love thinking about him shutting down Sheldon Williams.
Ooonst ooonst muthafucka!
Dawson
Rumors flying that he’s committed to Michigan State. That would be huge. I’m trying to dig up the most reputable link I can.
I received info about the Facebook update right as I was finishing
Hence, the ending. Funny, can’t a guy finish a recruiting post at 5:40, go to work for five hours at 6, and not have the entire recruiting picture explode in his absence? Hahaha.
I wonder how much the Thrice offer had to do with pushing Dawson over the edge. That’s some coincidental timing.
Eeiigghhhehh
Thats the sound I make when I think about Valentine. I just dont see the appeal of him. If he says yes then I hope he does fantastic, but at this point in time with only 2 scholarships available… Id prefer getting Harris and then a big (i.e. Hare or Costello)
Ooonst ooonst muthafucka!
Think about a team dynamic, too
You can only have so many hyper-athletic, attacking wings. Someone has to get them the ball, make passes, organize breaks, etc. Valentine is that sort of guy.
Kearney
Dont u think Kearney can handle the creation aspect though? His strength seems to be passing and defense. His shot is streaky and hes not as explosive around the rim as Dawson or Anderson. I think he could fill the Valentine role fine.
And if Dawson is as good as advertised I could see him leaving early after his sophmore year perhaps. And if we had Gary Harris come in as a redshirt freshman that next year, he is immediately replaced. I think getting Harris will be a hard sell with Dawson in the mix, but Id still prefer him.
Honestly I wouldnt mind Valentine just because I cant really think of a better option aside from saving the scholarship and using it in 2013.
Heres an idea thatll never happen: Costello AND Hare signing. Thatd be awesome lol. Redshirt Costello so he can get stronger, let Hare back up Payne and BOOM elite frontcourt.
Ooonst ooonst muthafucka!
Lots of ins and out
The idea of taking two more big men in the 2011/2012 was never outrageous, Looney, so you’re on the right track even if it isn’t going to happen now. Two things – one, you lose Nix and Sherman so why not replace them with guys at least a year in? Second, tons of 2013 perimeter talent and limited scholarships. Having to take a big in that class might really limit Izzo’s options. Think thing’s are competitive for spots now? 2013 might make this look like nothing.
I hear you about Kearney/Valentine but at the some time you could say that about Anderson/Harris. They’re guys who do relatively similar things for you. Doesn’t necessarily hurt to have both. I think Kearney needs to add bulk more than Valentine and isn’t the passer DV is. Most scouts would probably tell you Valentine is the better player right now.
Also, Looney, potential/upside aside, I don’t have any reason to believe Hare is more game ready than Costello. If anything, Hare is the one who needs to add bulk to his impressive frame.
Truth
but if you are going to double up on similar players wouldnt your best option be taking the best available talent, which is probably Harris? I could see Kearney developing into a tall Chris Hill, in that hell develop his passing skills and become very effective at the distribution aspect.
I think both need bulk but Hares length would just make him a better fit as a freshman. Once again the odds of that are slim, but the more I think about it the more I prefer the two bigs option. Were stacked at the wing, and at best I see K2 as an AJ Granger type with some effectiveness in the post but that not being his strong suit, and Izzos center developing track record is fairly shakey (for every Hutson, Davis and Suton you have a Gray, Herzog or Anagonye who was just a bust used for extra fouls) so why not split the bet?
Is there any chance at the two bigs? I doubt that both Costello and Hare would want to play together, but idk who the pair would be.
Ooonst ooonst muthafucka!
Like your own thoughts imply
I bet you’re far more likely to see a Valentine/Harris finish than a Hare/Costello one. I just don’t see that as probable at all. Sidenote: Hare’s overall recruitment has been quieeettt. The last solid info I heard on his recruitment was that he announced an early top 3 of Kentucky, MSU, and Louisville without (as far as I can tell) an MSU offer. Not a lot of movement since then.
You can make a compelling case for Harris over Valentine, no doubt. I’m in a wait-and-see mode. There’s no bad outcome at this point. It’s a little “can’t miss” for MSU.
Ray Lee picking up some offers
http://www.bankhoops.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=66&func=view&catid=4&id=3002
With the addition of Travis Trice, I think whatever chances there were of Ray Lee becoming an MSU target are about over.
Latest from Sam Hosey
http://lifeinlansing.com/hoseys-blog/1404-the-week-that-was-in-michigan-state-basketball
Sam “Da Chairman” Hosey has enough good connections to know what’s up.
Recruiting highlights:
OSU and Notre Dame are now offering Matt Costello (respect!)
Denzel Valentine is down to MSU, UM, and Oakland (where his brother plays). As everyone suspects, Sam says the decision should come soon.
I rec'd this post
To help it serve as the latest “forum” for recruiting stuff. It’s hard to know where to post stuff anymore with all the chaos of this week.
I posted (somewhere) that with the addition of Dawson (and after doing a little reading) I’m starting to come around on Valentine. I think the gist of what I said was that we can probably use a Valentine-type with the current make-up of the team, as he brings a high IQ and good handle to the table, which we’re going to need with all this firepower.
Yeah, as the waves settle
I figured we’d try to keep this as the “general discussion” thread so I keep adding the links. We’ll see how that works out. Thanks for the rec, Con.
Like you, I’ve lost track of where I’ve said what but I think I told someone else that it’s great to have lots of athletic attacking wings but someone needs to organize the break and make smart passes. Not to mention create things when you’re in halfcourt sets. I think Valentine can be one of those guys. None of us are 100% sold but if you’re looking for a rationale why Valentine may be just as a good a fit (if not player) as Harris at this stage, that’s an explanation.
Last 2 spots for 2012?
First of all I am so happy that MSU got Branden Dawson. From all the videos and everyone’s feedback, the kid seems like he’s going to be a monster for the green and white. Now with only 2 spots left for 2012 and Valentine, Harris and Costello. I heard interviews with all three players from Hondo and they all seem like great kids and any of them would be great spartans. It might be just me but I think we need take Costello for sure to keep the balance in classes and then it comes down to Valentine or Harris. I know Valentines dad went to MSU but Garry Harris looks like that special player that is too good to pass up. Josh what were your thoughts as far as this goes? I know MSU can’t take everybody but I just don’t want to miss out on Gary, I think he’s the next Ager but even better. Once again what a great week for MSU.
I think the one no-brainer is Costello
You have to make sure you’ve got enough big bodies and people have been talking about Costello as a major recruit since last year and the hype has continued. He could be really, really good.
I’m not sure what DV and Harris have been told behind the scenes. It may not be as simple as “first come, first serve” for that scholarship or it may be. And who knows, maybe Izzo would take both and bypass Costello if they want to commit first. It’s really up in the air but I’d put my money on a Valentine/Costello conclusion to the class. Harris will be great but MSU will be fine, too.
Nice thing, we should know soon. I don’t envision most of these being long processes. The vibe seems to be that Valentine could commit any day now and Costello may not be far behind.
Jakarr Sampson down to six (including MSU)
http://georgiatech.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1110494
Tennessee, St. John’s, Louisville, Baylor, Kansas and Michigan State.
It’s not clear how there’s any room left for a 2011 player at MSU. However, if one thing recruiting has taught us recently is that you can’t assume you have perfect information. Surprises (and big ones) can happen. Scratch your head for now and if Sampson schedules an official visit prepare the mind to boggle.
Mike Shaw
I saw a video where Shaw mentioned MSU as a team really going hard after him. So Amir Williams, Shaw and Sampson (one of the three) could still be taken?
They're all 2011 graduates
and since that class is full, MSU can’t take any of those players unless someone leaves.
Word that Matt Costello is on campus today (8/11)
I heard abou this yesterday but I’ve been waiting for something I can link though:
Steve Bell has mentioned it on his Bank Hoops forum and it’s on tRCMB.
Lots of smoke about a possible commit. We should know if we have fire soon.
Costello
That’s What I read too.
Izzo Plans on wrapping up the class today.
I can’t seriously see a way Costello turns it down. He could easily fight for playing time(with no one of his same position directly a year before him) and he would have a terrific supporting cast at all the other positions.
A few other commits
Sorry if these are on the site elsewhere but MSU filling up has coincided with a few targets committing elsewhere. Coincidence?
UoM
Weren’t Valentine, Costello, Reynolds, and McCune all UoM targets? They did get Carlton Brundidge for 2011, but I think they still have a few scholarships open. Is there a problem over there, or do you think it’s still early days yet?
I don't think they offered McCune or Reynolds.
I’m sure on Reynolds and I think that was a mistake for Beilein. McCune clearly wanted an MSU offer from that article and didn’t see UM as a desired option. I got the impression there was never much of a relationship there with UM.
Valentine and Costello received UM offers before MSU offered. Pretty frustrating week for their fanbase. The “Costello to MSU” post on UMHoops has 70+ comments.
by intrpdtrvlr on Aug 13, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Garry Harris
Josh,
I was reading an article on rivals and Brian Snow had an interview with Garry Harris Sr and it looks like MSU is still recruiting him hard and it seems to me that we are the favorites. I really think Izzo still wants him badly and is going to get him. Now onto 2013 and 2014. I saw something on a Illinois message board and Tommy Hamilton Jr has been on MSU’s campus. What a great time for MSU.
Boards are buzzing with this debate
And one of the good points I’ve heard made by many is that the real question is not whether MSU will continue to recruit him. Sure, you recruit him in case a spot opens up. Doesn’t make sense to cut ties at this point.
However, the real question is whether they would take a verbal from him without it being clear where that spot is coming from. I think that’d be a real PR problem for the program if it means a currently committed player decommits. Maybe Izzo has something in the works – if he can pull Harris off with zero negative repercussions, I’ll be very impressed.
No doubt that Izzo is already recruiting 2013 and 2014 players but I wouldn’t expect major movement on that front for quite some time.
Harris
Izzo wanted to do something like this before with Ziegler, I am pretty sure he knew that 100% Herzog was leaving and 50% sure Allen was leaving.
So he continued to recruit Ziegler, But with Harris it has to be pretty hard to recruit him, it’s 2 years from now.
He can’t expect to know if Appling, Payne, or Dawson will go pro early. And the only other players that would leave would be nix/sherman, and I see it hard for him to want to replace one of them with a SG.
I just don’t see it happening. I guess 2 years from now might be different, but I wonder if Harris will be willing to wait that long.
Yep, and
TZ had a clear timetable, April 2010, when everyone was quite sure that the scholarship situation would be resolved already at MSU. It’s not like he was an open recruit who could commit at any time.
by intrpdtrvlr on Aug 13, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Former MSU targets to prep schools
Jeremiah Davis is headed to a West Virginia prep school.
Rumors that Jakarr Sampson might do the same and actually reclassify as a 2012 recruit.
Grade issues could explain why MSU didn’t get as involved with some of these players, particularly Davis.
Sampson?
That makes no sense. The guy is a well sought after recruit, more so than Sampson. If I were him Id have signed with Kansas, Tennesee or Louisville by now
Ooonst ooonst muthafucka!
LaQuinton Ross (2011)
A 6’7" wing, 4-star on Scourt, gave OSU a surprise verbal yesterday. Story is here.
Pretty tempting when you can envision yourself as the next Evan Turner.
by intrpdtrvlr on Aug 17, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Maxpreps
Has him at #7 in their new top 100 of the 2011 class, ahead of James McAdoo, Marquis Teague (and Branden Dawson) among others. That Thad Matta can go get them.
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