Clank: Illinois 71, Michigan State 62
by LVS on Jan 18, 2011 11:45 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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With 8:26 remaining in the second half, Michigan State had cut Illinois' lead to only two points, and with the score at 59-57, looked poised to pull ahead and take control of the game. Instead, the Spartans failed to score at all for the next four minutes, and ultimately only scored 5 more points until the final buzzer on their way to a massively disheartening loss.
The obvious complaint is that MSU was far too happy to settle for jumpers early in the shot clock, and not assertive enough in getting the ball into the paint. It's not necessarily that simple, however, as Joe Rexrode noted in his post-mortem:
Keep in mind, though, that Illinois was sagging -- and doubling Green when he caught it in the post, which must have taken him by surprise at first. But hey, the last time Illinois saw Green here, he was carving them up around the basket. I've never seen an Illinois team play with less aggression on the perimeter, but this team has to play that way because it so lacks muscle inside. When you throw in another dismal shooting night for MSU, well...
"If you're not shooting well, it's hard to get it in there," Izzo said.
Color me somewhat skeptical about how much Illinois had to do with this, because we've seen this story over and over from MSU this season. The blueprint is obvious on how to defend MSU: limit their opportunities inside, and force them to hit jump shots. Down the stretch in this game, the Spartans simply couldn't do that. And for the same reasons, it's probably time to permanently re-adjust our expectations for this season. Unless Kalin Lucas finds his form of old, and Durrell Summers starts playing more assertively, good teams are going to force MSU to hit jump shots to win. Sadly, MSU is simply not a team blessed with many good pure jump shooters.
And yet, it's difficult to get too down on the team because, even considering the horrific second half cold spell, MSU was in the game until for 39 of the 40 minutes against a very good Illinois team, in a tough road environment. The four factors graph clearly illustrates the reasons why this was so:
MSU turned the ball over 15% of the time (which is not phenomenal, but better than we're used to), and cleaned up on the offensive boards (45% OR%). MSU also limited Illinois' second opportunities by seizing more than 70% of the defensive rebound opportunities. The Spartans parleyed those three facets into 17 more field goal attempts than Illinois had. That fact explains how MSU stayed close to a team that 1) had an eFG% more than 18 points higher than MSU's, and 2) shot 10 more free throws than MSU did.
Consequently, I think any derogatory comments about the "hustle," "desire," and "toughness" of this team are misplaced. MSU played very, very hard tonight, and lost because 1) it's becoming clear that this season, they don't have the athletes or the interior players you need for a strong interior game, and 2) the shots just weren't falling tonight. These games happen for second-tier teams, and it's probably time to realize that MSU is one of those teams this season.
Still, I think Rexrode is also dead-on here:
All that said, MSU has to try harder [to get the ball inside]. Yes, the Spartans missed a lot of good shots tonight, but when that's happening I think you have to step back, be patient, force it in there and try to get Green or Roe or Nix (who played his best game of the season, by the way) to the foul line if nothing else. Green got MSU back into the game with his driving 3-point play, and the more he does in that region, the better off this team will be.
I really wonder if this is actually going to happen at this point, however. Izzo famously called the team a "pretty boy jump shooting team" after the Syracuse game, and that bit of #realtalk hasn't seemed to have brought a substantial change in the month since. So, the frustration: get used to it.
Player bullets after the jump.
- Kalin Lucas hit several long-ish jump shots early in the game, and looked to be on his way toward a big game. But, just like everyone else, the shots stopped falling, and while he still led the team in scoring, he did so with a relatively middling 15 point effort. He still shows flashes of brilliance (including one gorgeous drive for a layup) but clearly had difficulties when being guarded by the bigger, more physical McCamey.
- Durrell Summers did nearly all of his damage on the perimeter: he went 3-for-7 from 3, and only 1-for-5 from inside the line. The problem was that Summers did little else besides hitting a few jump shots: no assists, and more distressingly, no rebounds. KJ was hoping that Summers would contribute on the boards, and that obviously didn't materialize. Still, his jump shooting kept MSU close while Illinois was on fire in the first half, and Izzo apparently "liked his demeanor a little bit better" tonight. So there's that.
- Draymond Green had 12 points on 5-of-14 shooting. Many of his problems tonight can be attributed to the fact that, as Rexrode said, Illinois was really keying on him. Still, he had quite a bit of success when he decided to take the ball to the hole; one only wishes he did so more often. He added six rebounds and four assists before fouling out.
- Delvon Roe was fantastic on the offensive boards: he grabbed 7, and was able to get several second-chance points as a result. On defense, he had his hands full with Mike Davis but nonetheless acquitted himself reasonably well. It wasn't the lights-out performance we saw him give against Jon Leuer, but a decent night nonetheless.
- Keith Appling continues to earn a bigger role on the team. He clearly struggled with his shot tonight -- 3 points on 1-for-5 shooting -- but, to my eye, at least, made several excellent hustle plays, and again played very strong defense. So many of Illinois' jump shots were strongly contested but went in anyway -- and Appling seemed to be defending many of those. There's only so much you can do against a team shooting the lights out like that. He also didn't turn the ball over at all.
- It was a game best forgotten for Korie Lucious. 1-for-5 from 3, 0-for-3 from 2. One of those misses was a wide, wide, wide open 3 near the end which could have put MSU back in the game -- and the shot wasn't even close. As commenter IsItMarchYet said, Lucious is now 11-42 from the field (26%) and 6-24 (25%) from 3 in Big Ten play. But I can't help but think that he'll probably do something brilliant soon. As KJ has written, Lucious defies analysis. At least he didn't turn the ball over.
- Derrick Nix continues to improve on the offensive end; he was the most assertive of the low post players. While he continues to play out-of-control on occasion (1 offensive foul that I can remember, and there might have been a second), given the state of the offense, Izzo probably doesn't want to discourage aggression on the offensive end. In total, he had 6 points and grabbed 6 boards in only 11 minutes of play and, like clockwork, shot 50% from the line. If he continues to play like this his minutes will continue to increase.
- Adreian Payne played 10 fairly anonymous minutes, scoring 2 points and grabbing 4 boards. I remember very little about anything else he did, honestly.
- Mike Kebler, Austin Thornton, and Garrick Sherman all played sparingly.
Up next: Saturday at Purdue. Hooray!
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I found this loss
Much more palatable than the previous ones for 2 reasons:
1) I wasn’t expecting a win.
2) I got home late and had to go out again, so I only saw about 10 minutes of the 1st half.
I dvr’d the game just in case, but I don’t think I’ll watch……
More rebounding would have led to a higher shooting percentage.
Even though we outrebounded them, this team needs to dominate rebounding to win.
Nix had six rebounds in eleven minutes and shot 2-3. Granted, he had three personals, but I would have given him another eight minutes.
If Summers isn’t going to score, the least he can do is crash the boards.
Why don’t we throw the ball down low anymore?
I don’t care if we have great guards. Throw the ball down low and draw the fouls and keep foul shooting at 75% at least.
Settling for jumpers
While most of the time I agree that we need to establish more scoring near the basket. Last night was different. Illinois took away easy looks down low. I was surprised at how many they actually made inside the arc. The difference between those two teams is simple: Illinois made plenty of contested threes and MSU couldn’t make wide open threes. When we have four guards (and Draymond) who have the ability to knock down a three on a consistent basis, those shots must fall. A good mix of inside-outside needs to be established.
Team recent comparisions
I’ve heard a lot of discussion about whether this team is most like 2005-2006: super talented but ultimately unable to find chemistry. A team that was supposed to contend for a national championship but went .500 in the Big Ten and lost in the first round.
Or is it 2004-2005/2009-2010? A team that struggled with adversity during the season to make an unexpected big run come tournament time when everything clicked?
However, maybe this is actually best compared to 2007-2008. Perhaps what we have is a talented, solid team good enough to compete with most teams on any given night but not good enough to beat the best teams. That sort of season and conclusion is what I’m beginning to prepare myself for. And, really, considering we’ve hit two straight final fours, a season like that once in a while is acceptable and to be expected.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
by intrpdtrvlr on Jan 19, 2011 8:57 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I hate Ed Hightower
In no way am I implying that the refereeing was biased or cost us the game or whatever. Win or lose, I am just so mindblown and angry when I finish watching a game he refs. That is my takeaway from this game. Ed Hightower is the worst professional adjudicator in sports.
Respect for Illinois. The flow of their offense against a very good defensive team was amazing. They hit shots, but they hit shots because they were able to find good shots. They were able to execute while playing fast and slow. They were aggressive and got to the line a lot. They are a good team, and have potential to make a real run in the tournament.
by theRPS on Jan 19, 2011 9:11 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
State of the Union
Unfortunately at this point in the season, we find ourselves breaking down each game looking for the little silver linings in the clouds. In games when we have taken the ball inside to a greater degree, we have gotten some opponents in foul trouble. I don’t see us beating good teams if we take 43% of our shots from beyond the arc, as we did last night.
We have played from behind far too much and for far too extended minutes and the climb back in games has been exhausting. Last night we had a real positive start which fell apart when we had the wholesale substitution which left us with few scoring options (Lucious and Summers) and porous defense (Payne, Thornton, Sherman, Summers, Lucious). Illinois took advantage and the game began to swing.
It is going to become more difficult to be successful from beyond the arc if that is our predominant focus. Opponents will extend the defense with no threat on the interior. If that is our style, there are going to be quite a few aftermisery threads.
Hustle was only an issue when
Korie seemed to have a breakaway score after a turnover and was blocked. In the TV replay, it seemed as though he looked back and even saw the defender over his right shoulder but slowed down and barely lifted off the ground to try an easy lay-up.
My instant reaction, not only in this particular case but whenever these lay-ups are easily blocked on transition drives, is why the offensive player never switches hands or directions to attempt a lay-up on the other side of the basket.
Other than this instance, I can proudly they the team gave its all until the final buzzer while still being disappointed with the loss.
by G&W - The Only Way on Jan 19, 2011 10:01 AM CST reply actions
Overall, really good effort
I was pleased with the way we played for the most part. After getting within two in the second half and the shots stopped falling, however, it’s like no one knew what to do. The offense just seemed to stop trying to find ways to score. Illinois wasn’t playing that great either at that point, which is what made it all the more frustrating. The opportunity was there if we’d just do something, ANYTHING, and we didn’t.
Roe’s a beast and I love his hustle. Lucas looked more focused and intent through much of the first half, but sort of disappeared down the stretch. I understand shooting through a slump, but man, Lucious needs to stop forcing shots that just aren’t there, especially given his height. I agree that the one wide-open miss was painful, but much more often than that it seemed like he was forcing the issue. And while Summers had a quiet 13 tonight, it just seemed like he was checked out. I was surprised at some of Izzo’s comments regarding Durrell, in that he liked his effort this time out. He just looks like he’s half asleep.
Kudos to the Illini though, they looked great and McCamey is a stud. They did their best to remove Green from the game and force us to do what we suck at – make shots.
Hightower is teh suck.
And I hate Mike Davis’ pouty/sneery facial expressions and attitude.
Tonight's going to be a good night.
The shots just wouldn't go in
I disagree that we don’t have any good shooters. Lucas, Green, Summers, and Appling are all shooting better than 40% on 3 pointers this year. That’s four guys you don’t mind taking threes when they are available.
In this game we controlled the turnovers and dominated on the boards – that would have gotten us the win if we had played better D and hit our shots at an average rate. Last night the D let us down a bit. Yes, Illinois made some tough shots, but anytime a team shoots as well as they did you’re not playing that well on defense.
I thought we did a good job on Tisdale, Richardson and McCamey but we let Paul and Richmond get free too often. I guess if you have to pick your poison you let the lesser lights try to beat you. Unfortunately they were up to the challenge last night.
Overall, we played OK on offense, although we played better at the start of the game than at the end. We started out going inside out, and were having some success feeding the post and getting some shots around the rim.
The proof is in the play by play, we were 6 of 10 in the first 5 minutes and attempted 7 two point attempts and 2 3 point attempts, both of which we missed. Maybe Illinois adjusted defensively, but after that point we started hoisting it up from 3 point land much more often and our offense stagnated. And it wasn’t just Green in those first 5 minutes – Roe and Nix also had FGs that came from the offense rather than offensive rebounds/tip ins. After the first 5 minutes, Payne had a 2 pointer off the offense, and Green had a couple of more attempts. That’s it – Roe, Nix, and Payne attempted zero points that were not putbacks off offensive rebounds. Maybe part of that is on them not being assertive, but I think part of it is that we stopped going to them.
My impression is that we started the game running our stuff and it was working, but at some point we got away from running our plays to completion and started jacking up jump shots. That’s OK if they are falling, but they weren’t last night and we needed to go back in to Roe, Green and Nix. It was the reverse of the Wisconsin game where we started out jacking stuff up and then settled down and ran our offense, which worked.
I’m not that disappointed with the loss – Illinois is good and Assembly Hall is a hard place to win. We controlled the turnovers, limited the damage from their most potent offensive threats, and rebounded very well. The effort was there. I just think this team needs to settle down and run the offense. Maybe we don’t have the strongest front-court offensively, but we absolutely need to use what we have more. When we do, things go well. When we don’t, we’re a POT, with all that entails. Some nights we’ll live by the 3. Last night we died by it.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 19, 2011 11:02 AM CST reply actions
Stopped running stuff...
It looked like they stopped running it when the mass substitution took place at the first commercial time-out. Up until then it was a hell of a game and last night’s starters looked a whole lot better than Illinois’ starters. But, the second five came in and the offense stopped and never got going again, even when the varsity came back in. The Lucas-Appling-Green-Roe-Payne line-up could be a keeper with, potentially a change to Nix from Payne. If the story is that Green can’t guard a 3, not many of them are going to stop him in the post. Shit, that’s what they said about Adrian Dantley, that he couldn’t guard a 3, but he lasted 15 years in the league averaging about 20 a game because no 3 could stop him in the post. (I once watched a Pistons-Bulls game during which Jackson decided to put Jordan on AD. Jordan fouled out in four minutes. AD took him to the post, jumped-sort of- into his chest, made the shot and the one six times down the court.)
Yes, that's pretty much when it stopped
right around the 5 minute mark when we did those mass substitutions. I think Lucas and Green being in foul trouble for parts of both halves really hurt us as they are the two guys who are most effective at running our offense. Having them both out of the game for longer than normal stretches was problematic for scoring.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 19, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty Simple
This isn’t rocket science. Show me all the stats you want but a loss is a loss. If MSU doesnt establish some toughness down low we will keep piling up the losses and kiss any kind of run in March good-bye. I love MSU but I just sit and watch in amazment how many 3’s we throw up and Izzo continues to allow it to happen? In the 4th qtr last night we made a little run and cut the lead down because we actually DID go down in the paint and what did we do once we had the momentum…we start pumping up 3’s? Even the annoucers are saying it because its so obvious? Yet we continue to throw the ball around up front and when the clock runs down we are firing up fade a way 3’s falling out of bounds with someone on us rather than slamming it down low and taking the fouls. How about Green staying down low and forget that high post crap? All he is doing is tossing 3’s and taking himself out of rebounding position and has anyone looked at his assist to turnover ratio? Come’on it way too obvious for Izzo not to do something about it? Seriously.
This has been my take all year
It often happens that fans “see the obvious” during the regular season with things like mystery substitutions, weird game plans and erratic play. It just feels…. different… somehow this year. Its almost like we aren’t making the mystery substitutions to prepare people, we are just doing them for no apparent reason. The lack of urgency in attacking the basket has gone well beyond frustrating at this point; its frustrating to watch them go from being successful with attacking to being totally passive and jacking threes in the same game. Throwing up threes when you are not “on” is fighting a losing battle, and our “pass around the perimeter” offense ignores rebounding for the most part.
As one poster said, it feels like I’m watching Michigan basketball at times, where maybe if we shoot 50% from behind the arc we can beat anyone!
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Jan 19, 2011 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
I know Coach Izzo hates criticism
So I’ll just write some questions:
Was Green not POTW last week playing the 4?
Did the team not win 2 in a row?[they can’t seem to win more than 2 straight]
So why was the lineup changed yet again?
I get the punishment angle for #15 but why punish the team by playing Green where I thought it was determined he couldn’t and shouldn’t play?
Was he not Barkley-esque according to Bruce Weber in the game last year?
What’s with the constant flip-flopping with Green anyway? First he starts then he’s not going to start the rest of the season then he’s starting again at the 4 now back to 3. That has to drive him crazy.
Lastly, at least #15 admitted he wasn’t playing well and sat out crunchtime in the NW game. When will someone let Korie know he’s not playing well and should maybe shoot less or play less?
Maybe use Appling to initiate the offense more instead of shooting all 3’s. The team has enough 3pt chuckers. Someone needs to attack the defense. Appling was pretty good at that in HS and he’s a good FT shooter if he draws fouls… Just sayin
Good Luck at PU!
Everybody Loves Draymond
Green at the 3
By my calculations, Green only played 5 of his 33 minutes at the 3 spot. Roe/Payne/Nix/Sherman played a combined 52 minutes. Remaining 28 minutes for the two “Big” spots had to go to Green. And Illinois started a very big lineup, too, with basically 3 Bigs on the floor: Tisdale/Davis/Cole.
I’m not a fan of Green at the 3 either, but I don’t think that was a significant problem last night.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Jan 19, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
Plus
with Summers not starting, who else do we have to play there? Lucious, Appling, and Lucas are all too short, we need Roe down low on defense, and Thornton is overmatched against a team like Illinois. That leaves Nix and Sherman, but they’d be lost out there. If Summers isn’t starting Green has to spend some time at the 3. We have no other viable options against Big Ten level competition.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 20, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
But that’s not the point.
The starting unit was changed and I don’t think that should be happening when you’ve used one unit so far through the B10 games and established a rhythm.
I can understand if the unit hadn’t been successful but I don’t think the opponent should dictate who starts. To me that’s a sign of weakness.
Sure, they have a big lineup but mismatches go both ways.
Tough matchups? PPTPW right?
Everybody Loves Draymond
Well, the offense was most efficient
when that lineup was on the floor to start the game, no?
I’m not saying the lineup change was good or bad—starting lineup decisions are generally overrated—but, again, I don’t see that this was the problem last night.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Jan 19, 2011 10:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It was
But that was short lived.
Obviously who played where didn’t matter because nobody could make a shot, but if you have to go down go down doing things the way that won 4 out of 5.
Why try something new in a tough road game?
Everybody Loves Draymond
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