Postgame Thread: MSU 10, Ohio State 7
by SpartanDan on Oct 1, 2011 11:46 PM CDT
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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PrintThe Buckeye OL certainly couldn't touch our front seven.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a defense. Even with the caveat that Ohio State's quarterback situation could not really be any worse, that was an impressive performance. In fact, in the time it took you to read these first three sentences we recorded yet another sack.
I never thought winning at the Horseshoe would not be a no-brainer Dance of Joy-worthy result, but this is clearly not your father's (or slightly older sibling's) Ohio State team. Even bringing back the Tat 4 (minus Pryor) may not help them that much, unless one of them can switch to QB out of nowhere.
The good:
- The defense as a whole. 178 yards allowed, 62 of them on the last desperation drive when there wasn't realistically enough clock to score twice? That kind of performance would be good against a cupcake. Against a Big Ten opponent that isn't Minnesota, it's completely absurd.
- The defensive front 7 in particular. Nine sacks on the day, officially (Chris Norman and Denicos Allen with two each), and that may even be undercounted (as there was another Miller run-for-loss which he fumbled but recovered). Counting sacks as pass plays, Ohio State got 99 yards on 30 rush attempts (a good defensive performance by college standards) and 79 yards on 33 pass attempts (which is insanely good). Those numbers might be even worse if not for multiple holding and false start penalties on the offensive line caused by either the DL completely beating them or being so quick that the OL couldn't help but react too early.
- Darqueze Dennard's monster interception after the only coverage breakdown of the first 59 minutes.
- B.J. Cunningham. Stop me if you've heard this one before: 9 catches, 154 yards, and the early TD. Yes, that's more receiving yards than the entire Ohio State offense even before adjusting for sacks.
- The offensive line: Only 85 rush yards from the backs on 27 carries (which isn't great but against a good Ohio State defense, it's not atrocious either), but zero sacks allowed and Cousins had plenty of time to throw.
- Dan Conroy: Can't blame him for the miss (a 51-yard kick into the wind), and he nailed a 50-yarder (with the wind) in the fourth to finally give us a two-score lead.
- Mike Sadler: Dropped half of his punts inside the 20 with a reasonable average (40.8) and mostly kept them from being returnable (only one of the six was returned, for a net average of 38.3).
The mixed (I didn't see anyone whose day qualified as truly bad):
- Kirk Cousins's numbers look reasonable enough on the day (20/32, 250 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, and these are dragged down slightly by a couple of drops on very catchable passes), but a lot of the incompletions were overthrows of open receivers, and both interceptions were horrible decisions trying to force the ball into coverage. He seems to be locking in on his primary target too much, to the point where one quick out got jumped and could easily have been a pick-six. Some of the overthrows may be related to the field conditions (windy weather with just enough rain earlier to get the field wet and make holding the ball tricky), but this is starting to become too much of a trend.
Let's keep this in perspective: there are a lot of teams that would love to have a QB whose bad days look like this. But compared to what he's capable of, this was not a particularly good day for Cousins. - Keshawn Martin displayed his shiftiness on offense (five catches, mostly on quick outs and WR screens, for 45 yards), but his fumbling problem was also on display (luckily, fumbled out of bounds) and he was still holding the ball somewhat loosely on punt returns even after the fumble.
- Johnny Adams: Dumb, dumb personal foul that turned 2nd and 25 for Ohio State into a first down again, but made a fair number of plays otherwise (including a sack).
1-0 in the Big Ten, two weeks to get ready for the Michigan game. Sound off here.
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In a perfect world, Cousins plays better and we win by 2 touchdowns. As is, I'll settle for this picture though
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
by Seer on Oct 2, 2011 12:31 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
One of the best sacks I've ever seen!
If Bauserman dodges him, then Allen looks stupid laying on the ground. But he didn’t!
I still can’t believe he did that. Has anyone ever seen someone do that?
All the sacks are the only thing that made this game fun to watch. (Well, that and beating OSU in the Shoe of course).
Well...
I wouldn’t blame Allen for looking stupid if that did happen. To me, it looked like he was going up to block a throw. Bauserman looked like he was about ready to throw until he realized it would’ve went right into Allen’s chest. He pulled it back, and Allen, as a second effort, grabbed his legs and didn’t let him go.
Yawn
I see it on the PS3 all the time!
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
by intrpdtrvlr on Oct 2, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ram Vela.
In Navy’s first win over Notre Dame in recent memory.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
could someone..
please photoshop in a jet pack or maybe a cape for Denicos?
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Oct 2, 2011 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Lot of good things out there
-Cunningham was a monster. That was a Ringer-esque performance.
-Bell was solid. He’s clearly our best back.
-The o-line, much better. Not a great running day but no sacks allowed-can’t complain about that.
-Dennard’s interception was an NFL play.
-So was that sack by Worthy.
-Gholston looked like a first rounder.
-The LBs looked like vampires out there.
-Sadler’s play in the 1st qtr was huge. Special teams overall looked pretty good.
If that defense shows up in two weeks we will probably embarrass michigan. I say probably because the offense is shaky. Cousins gets some slack from me because he won 11 games last year. But he has not looked good this year and its week 5. A senior, 3 year starting qb can’t be doing that. We should be able to run the ball better against michigan, but against wisconsin we will need a very good game from Cousins.
Cousins
I can’t help but feel he is holding us back from competing for another B1G championship. Yes, I know he helped us get to the last one, but outside of Wisconsin last year, Cousins has not looked good vs. a solid defense (i.e. Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama – though not many could’ve looked good vs. Bama).
Nice win at the horseshoe
Overall, defense played great. Mr. C played another Sunday game. Should have been a comfortable win and instead a nailbiter. Why a full blitz with 40 seconds left?. Cousins had a bad game – Sims and Cunningham passes were awful.
Less sold on the O-line
Seemed to me the passing plays were designed to buy Cousins time by moving him around. That prevented sacks, but it also put Cousins in position to be leveled a number of times after he released the ball.
Don’t get me wrong, that’s the only option the coaches have, but I think it’s going to catch up to us as the season goes along, both in terms of injury risk for Cousins and potentially affecting his decision making (not sure that was the case on the bad throws yesterday, though).
I’m starting to feel like this season could end up being a pretty big lost opportunity. Defense looks as balanced, aggressive, and smart as it has in a long time, and all the starts are aligned in terms of offensive skill players. My kingdom for two health offensive tackles . . .
Anyway, great win. Got the job done in an extremely hostile environment.
by KJ@theonlycolors on Oct 2, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions
Pocket awareness
I think KC showed some pretty good pocket awareness, especially in the second half when he moved around in the pocket to buy his receivers some time (the overthrow to Caper when LC was wide open for a TD comes first to mind). So I was really pleased to see that, which is something I don’t think we’ve seen from KC in the past.
Good point
That may have been a bigger factor than the playcalling in terms of Cousins getting hit after the throw.
Of course, that also speaks to the fact that, while Cousins made a few very dumb throws in this game, he’s also the main reason (along with Cunningham) they got on the scoreboard at all.
by KJ@theonlycolors on Oct 2, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
End of game
I agree with MSU1978, why were we bringing full pressure late?
When they caught that TD with 10 seconds to go, I nearly freaked – in my mind’s eye, I was already seeing an onsides recovery, then another fluke TD to win the game.
The D was gigantic, but our offense has got to get more points. OSU punted to us 10 times, plus we had a pick, and started the second half with the ball. So not counting the final kneeldown, we had 12 possessions, and got 10 points from them. We had at least 6 possessions when we got to OSU’s side of the field but came away with no points. That cannot continues, neither against the Denard show, nor against a real team like Wisc.
I’m super pumped about this win, but at the same time, there seems to be a lot of work left to do, and wayyyyy too many points were left on the table yesterday.
Everyone hates the prevent
except when it isn’t used.
by TheCrestedHelm on Oct 3, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The prevent is used in a lot of situations where it shouldn't be.
That was one case it should have been used. The only danger, however minimal it may be, is a TD on that play. Giving up 20 yards at a time (which the prevent allows) matters not at all.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
i am one of those who was very critical about Kirk's performance.
Kirk is an exemplary football player but his decisions on the field were bad. as a senior he should know not make passes in triple coverage and it is ok to take field goals and put points on the board.His performance has to improve as we enter a very crucial stretch and we will win games, if Kirk eliminates bad plays at a crucial time. Momentum shifts can come back and bite us on the road at Iowa, at Nebraska, home against Wisconsin, Michigan and at NW.
having said that he is the 2nd best QB in the league after Wilson and I would not trade him for anyone.
Is he really an "exemplary football player"?
I’m not going to argue with you about him being a good QB, but I think this is a bit of a stretch. At this point, we need a QB who can play mistake free football on most days, and he has shown over his career that he is not that guy. One play he will look great, one play he air mails it off his back foot, one play he throws a rookie level mistake INT. Something can be said for the play calling (running a fade to our giant, non leaping TE anyone?) but for every one of those there are poorly thrown passes, or much worse for a senior leader, a boneheaded decision. Think that lengthy out pattern to KM that should have been a pick-6, or one of the several forced throws into double or even triple coverage; he should be avoiding these easy mistakes by now. And its not like we are trying to force things in there because we are down, we could have pretty much taken a knee 3 times and punted with the way OSUs offense was playing.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Oct 2, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Please give me an example of a MSU QB that has ever lived up to this standard of “mistake-free football”.
You choose to criticize the plays that Cousins doesn’t make while ignoring the perfectly thrown drops by WRs and regressed OL.
You say that the first championship QB in MSU’s last 20 years is “not that guy”? You ignore the comebacks that he has led over several years of being a cornerstone of this program?
To each their own, but I think that this type of negative, reactionary commentary on a great Spartan (especially after a huge road win) just shows a lack of perspective.
I would have rather had Brian Hoyer or Jeff Smoker or Dan Enos at QB yesterday, does that answer your question?
Look, Cousins is a great guy, a great ambassador for the team and by all accounts a great leader. But in football skills he has regressed from where he was last year. He played a poor game yesterday.
We throw out these words like “great” and “exemplary” when talking about him, and I just don’t understand why. I don’t think MSU has a better QB on roster right now or anything, I’m just saying we can stop with the lovefest anytime
"It's a trap!"
I suppose it does.
I’m not a Hoyer-hater by any means, but seriously? You’d take a QB with lower accuracy and (at best) equally questionable decision making?
Yes, Cousins wasn’t at his best yesterday. We can stop with the hatefest, especially after he got yet another W, in Columbus no less.
Wins are a team stat
Please don’t make the mistake that college football announcers do by thinking otherwise. Measuring a QB by wins and losses is fairly futile. Anyone who watched that game could see that the only offensive player deserving of praise was BJ. Cousins does not deserve a “win” whatever that might entail. He had a very poor game. And by the way, the offensive line excuse was perfectly valid until this game. They actually pass protected quite well and gave Cousins lots of time in the pocket.
That being said, lets stay grounded here. We did win the game and Hoyer was a far more inconsistent QB than Captain Kirk is and had games that were far more cringe-inducing (Boston College anybody?). KC is a good QB who had a really bad off night and is having a less then stellar year considering the very high expectations. My money is on him turning it around.
I'd rather have
a great defense and a mediocre offense than the other way around. The less points we give up, the less the offense has to do.
Obviously I’d prefer if the offense played up to its capabilities, but this is acceptable
We will see what the future holds
I am not yet sold on OSUs offense being very good
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Oct 2, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
it's not good
but we’ve shown that regardless of the opposition, we’ve defended pretty well. Just look at the yardage/point numbers in our opponents’ other games compared to their games against us.
Did anyone see Romo today?
That’s a poor QB performance that cost a team a football game.
http://pittsfieldindex.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pittsfield-Ratings-Index/142673082487903
Was at a bar here In Chicago today to watch Lions game, and there were a bunch of OSU fans there. And guess what they kept saying? “Enjoy the W Sparty, Dantonio is 100% going to be coach at tOSU next season.”
Really, Buckeye fans? They feel that bc Coach D spent 3 seasons there as an assistant, that it makes him an “Ohio man,” just disregarding the 6 seasons he spent at MSU prior to going to Colombus, not to mention the 5 seasons in E.L. as HC. Last time I checked, 11>5.
Easily the 2nd most delusional fan base in cfb.
I dunno
I think it means something that Dantonio grew up in Ohio (though, if I remember right he’s said he was something of an ND fan as a kid?) coached there at Ohio and YSU along with Ohio State, still has a lot of family and friends there. Plus, he’d get a lot of money and the pick of one of the top two or three football states as far as recruiting. There’s a lot of reasons he’d stay in East Lansing, too, including his own statements, but fidelity is easy when it isn’t really being tested.
It’s the only job I can realistically see him leaving Michigan State for, at this point. But I really doubt he wants to go work for the people who just made his pal Tressel a “tragic hero.” I’m not too worried about it, but I think there’s a chance he’d jump if they offered it to him. A small chance, but a chance.
why anyone would want to jump into that abortion of a program right now is beyond me
There was a good Dr Sat write up about how these guys were accepting improper benefits… while being on suspension for accepting improper benefits!
"It's a trap!"
I'm a little worried about our red-zone offense
Our baseline offensive output is acceptable, at least as far as total yards are concerned, though it would be nice if we could run the ball better. We just aren’t punching it in when we get into scoring position.
Cousins is making some bad decisions, but he’s making some plays too. Overall, his completion percentage looks OK so he can’t be missing that many throws. I think our lack of running game is taking its toll – he’s pressing a little because he knows that if we’re going to move the ball it has to be through the air. Also, other teams are clueing into that as well so they are probably starting to play “pass first” defense against us.
He does need to make better decisions in certain circumstances – that last pick yesterday was really bad. He should have just pulled to ball down, taken the tackle for loss (to burn time or a timeout), and let us pin them deep rather than throw that ball. Overall I’m pretty satisfied with yesterday’s win. OSU is not as good as they usually are, but they’re solid, and we beat them in their place by more than the final margin would suggest. Our defense is looking like one of the best in the nation – we’re solid everywhere on that side of the ball.
I will now return to fantasizing about the Tigers beating the Yankees tonight by a score of 11-0.
The O-Line problems are accentuated in the red zone.
You need to be able to smash ahead for yards when you get close to the goal line, as the back of the end zone limits the offense’s ability to stretch the field and the defense. If our grunts up front can’t get a consistent push, the running game becomes ineffective, which then limits the play-action possibilities as well.
Hopefully, Staten has the big boys driving blocking sleds loaded with 2 tons of rocks over the next couple weeks, so they will be ready to manhandle the Wolverines D-Line on a consistent basis. If we get any kind of run game going on UM, we win easily.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
What you say makes perfect sense
I think O line improvement holds the key to a really good, as opposed to pretty good, year. All the other pieces are there.
by TheCrestedHelm on Oct 3, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
12:00 pm kick off??
What the hell is ESPN thinking? Or for that matter Mark Hollis? He made it a point that the MSU/Michigan game wouldnt be prime time because he and Dave Brandon didnt want that… Noon game is the worst time slot for home field advantage and in general the worst time slot for a college football game.
It's Michigan
There won’t be any problems with a lack of home field advantage.
http://pittsfieldindex.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pittsfield-Ratings-Index/142673082487903
by PittsfieldIndex on Oct 3, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know JadeMonkey
I’ve heard player’s say multiple times, something along the lines of, “We don’t like waiting around all day. We like noon kicks because we come out strongest and don’t have time to think about things too much.” While this is especially relevant for night games (remember how we looked ‘off’ against YSU?), I imagine it plays into 3:30 kicks as well.
It’s MSU/UM, the crowd will be there and be nasty. If a noon kick at all increases our chances of going 4 for 4 (and I’d argue it does, slightly), I’ll forgo the extra drinking/sleep with no complaints.
Good point, I didn't really consider that
But I still worry about the students. I realize its Michigan and everyone will be fired up, but there is always a lag in students getting the game when its at noon. Not to mention the pro combats would look more intimidating at night ;)
by JadeMonkey23 on Oct 3, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Not for the Michigan game.
At least not while I was there (granted, my last home Michigan game as a student was six years ago). I was in line for the student section seats near sunrise and wound up in the 15th row.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Did you go to MSU?
If you did, then you’ll know that the students will probably be at Spartan Stadium the night before.
It’s MICHIGAN! This is the game that matters most on campus.
http://pittsfieldindex.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pittsfield-Ratings-Index/142673082487903
by PittsfieldIndex on Oct 3, 2011 12:33 PM CDT reply actions
The Stadium will be Packed!
Hopefully, with our recent success they’ll be less UofM trolls at the game. I can’t stand seeing any Blue in Spartan Stadium! Time to send a graduating class off with 0 wins vs MSU.
UofM is the most overrated team in the country again, which isn’t surprising since they are the most overrated college football program in the history of D-I FBS.
Go Green
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