Michigan State 28, Michigan 14 -- Four Straight
by Pete Rossman on Oct 16, 2011 11:11 PM CDT
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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PrintFor those who haven't seen it, The U (besides being one of the most entertaining documentaries I've ever seen) chronicles the rise of the Miami Hurricanes. With talent and swagger -- not to mention suspenders -- a nothing program turned into a juggernaut in the '80s and '90s. Successful? Yes. Pissed off the establishment? Of course. Dubious in their sportsmanship? Undoubtedly (Strike through for unsuccessful analogy - PR).
For better and worse (MONDAY MORNING EDIT -- Almost all for the better, I should say. The personal fouls stuck in my craw a bit, but the main comparison I wanted to draw to Miami was MSU's swagger, along with the personal fouls. I never meant to imply MSU as an institution was reckless, and should have stated it clearer. Mea culpa - PR), some of those traits were displayed by Michigan State in their convincing 28-14 victory over the Michigan Wolverines.
First the bad -- the penalties. UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH. Johnny Adams's personal foul (a shove of a Michigan receiver already out of bounds) was overly aggressive and not the first 15-yard penalty he's picked up this year. I didn't see Marcus Rush rough Denard Robinson, so I can't testify as to how brutal that hit was. Isaiah Lewis really could've done without showing the ball to Denard on his pick six. Even though the taunting rule that takes back a touchdown is one of the dumbest rules to exist in history on any scope, it's best not to allow the referees any chance to take back a touchdown.
Speaking of brutal, William Gholston. The punch delivered to Taylor Lewan shouldn't have happened, I don't care who did what first. First, that type of aggression is completely uncalled for, and second, the retaliator always gets flagged. Always. Sadly, that wasn't the worst foul Gholston committed, as he not only piled onto Denard Robinson after the whistle blew, but twisted his face mask 90 degrees. To do that to a defenseless player is indefensible, and he definitely owes Robinson an apology. I'd be absolutely stunned if he wasn't suspended for at least one game for that foul, and possibly more. I just hope Mark Dantonio finally does it.
Enough with the hand-wringing. First and foremost, the offensive line played the best it has all season against one of the better defensive lines in the conference. Kirk Cousins did not suffer a sack on the day. The line helped Edwin Baker once again solidify his spot as the starter. He was routinely running for 4-5 yards, even breaking a few for more than 10 yards. The fumble was the only black mark on the day, and it's nice to have him back.
Cousins played an efficient game not shown by the stats. He completed 13 of his 24 passes (which should've been more due to a few drops) for 120 yards and 2 TDs. Even though more of the credit for the two touchdowns should go to Keshawn Martin's nifty moves, Kirk deserves the credit for not trying to make the low-probability heroic play and going for the high-probability safe play. I wish the receivers could've had better hands today, but given that B.J. Cunningham committed one or two of the drops, I'm not too worried.
The defense, disregarding the penalties (I'll get back to those in a bit) might have been the best I've ever seen. After the first drive in which Michigan went 80 yards in 10 plays for a score, the defense absolutely swarmed and caught the quarterbacking duo of Robinson and Devin Gardner for seven sacks. The back seven for the most part (WRAP ROUNDTREE UP NEXT TIME) covered the Michigan receivers well enough to keep the Michigan quarterbacks from finding anyone wide open downfield. I thought the defense would be effective, but nowhere near to the extent it was Saturday.
I'm not going to lie -- the penalties still trouble me, especially the egregious ones by Gholston. He clearly let his emotions get the best of him (I'm not going to call him a thug -- this is the first time Gholston's had any penalties as dirty as the two he committed in the game, hopefully they do not happen again), and needs to bear the consequences (some sort of suspension) of punching one player and twisting the face mask of a defenseless player.
The other penalties need to stop as well. While MSU was good enough to beat Michigan with 128 yards of penalties and gifting the Wolverines six first downs, that absolutely will not fly in five days against Wisconsin. I was a bit confused by Pat Narduzzi saying that they were looking for "consistent 'unnecessary roughness' in a matter of speaking",but offered this quote as well:
"I think so. If I’m a quarterback I’m going, ‘Wait a minute, what’s coming at me,’ especially after last week. … You know, we don’t want to hurt anybody. I feel bad (Robinson) was laying on the ground. I didn’t see it, I was looking downfield, I don’t know if it was late, but we don’t need those 15-yarders. And that’s probably the most disappointing thing. We’re a classy, disciplined football team and we haven’t done that all year."
Before this game Michigan State committed on average 46.2 yards in penalties per game, which would rank 41st in the FBS. I feel that Narduzzi intimated that he felt that a few penalites were necessary to play great defense but I don't think that's true; Alabama was and is in the top ten for fewest penalties yards last year and this year. The 128 yards racked up by MSU was an anomaly, so I'm hopeful an undisciplined performance by a few players this past game won't occur again.
Let's take this victory for what it was -- a great win over a very good opponent slightly marred by several dumb penalties and a couple horrific ones. Wisconsin comes to town on Saturday under a national spotlight, and a win there (it's going to be clean, because I don't see how MSU commits many penalties andwins) will make MSU the favorite in the Legends division, if not the Big Ten entire.
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-1 for your lead
So, all the boors and haters out there are saying what a classless program MSU has, and you decide to start off by comparing MSU to Miami? Because one player committed an inexcusable, maliciously dirty play the whole program has dubious sportsmanship? Maybe that wasn’t your intent but it can easily be inferred from your writing.
I agree with most of your points. All of the other personal fouls fall into the “NOO you dumb $%!^!” category. Including Gholston’s retaliatory punch, IMO. Obviously way too many of them, and we’re lucky it didn’t bite us in the ass, but they weren’t dirty.
I hope there is some significant discipline for Gholston re: the helmet twist. Need to nip this “dirty team” rep in the bud.
But really, I find your Miami analogy to be horrible, especially coming from this blog.
by Dano517 on Oct 16, 2011 11:38 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
This team is getting sloppy on both sides of the ball, and Dantonio needs to get it under control. That includes telling Narduzzi to save his caveman talk for defensive meetings, and STFU while the head coach sets the tone in public.
BUT letting defeated, resentful rivals define us with the Miami analogy is an incredible mistake… and now they can say that MSU’s top sporting blog just admitted it, which they will. Believe me, they will. Losers have endless energy for that sort of thing.
Our guys don’t travel in paramilitary gear, swagger around with guns or hot tub with known felons. (Not that I know of, anyway.) I was one of the first guys in the postgame to actually say Gholston should be benched, and I stand by that. But echoing this kind of exaggerated characterization will make it very hard to shake, even if each and every player spends the rest of the year in Christian Fellowship meetings with Kirk Cousins.
by Spartisan on Oct 17, 2011 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The bolded is absolutely correct
One player has one dirty play worth apologizing for and you start making generalizations to the entire team? This blog should not sound like the idiots at Mgoblog.
If teams were defined by one player, UM in recent years would be just as dirty. Unless you’re going to paint them with that same broad brush, don’t do it to MSU.
Links:
http://www.aolnews.com/2009/11/02/michigans-mark-ortmann-punches-illinois-corey-liuget-in-the-gr/
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4485462
by Stuka on Oct 17, 2011 5:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Edited
I don’t think my intentions came through as clear as I wanted, hopefully the edit makes it clearer.
- Pete
by Pete Rossman on Oct 17, 2011 5:38 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks for clarifying
But I would consider just taking it down. You are making a nuanced comparison while the um whiners are dealing in broad strokes of resentful rage. Seems like a perfect time for an article on why this team is NOTHING like that Miami program.
But I’m not going to write it so ill stfu about all that.
BTW, its a good day to read mgoblog if you like hilarious comments. Most commenters there have convinced themselves that it is okay that they lost, since they did it ‘the um way’, ‘with class’. Unfortunately, I doubt Hoke is so complacent.
by Dano517 on Oct 17, 2011 9:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I hope Hoke is that complacent, but I doubt it as well.
If you want to laugh, check out the parade of Taylor Lewan personal foul penalties from last year, and the associated quotes about how “nasty” (in a good way, of course) he is. Then compute that he is the model citizen being described by our UofM friends over at mgoblog. I have even heard several people talk about how he was helping Gholston up (not shoving his head into the grass) when he got punched .
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Oct 17, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Could not say it better
Myself. Really odd choice to go with.
The U highlighted everything that’s wrong with college football.
Between the team lunacy of fighting a nerd fraternity, Glenn Winston, Dion Sims, and now on the field punchiness…. The U is the last thing we need to be compared to for any reason.
Wouldn’t quibble with a headline change.
by msuduster on Oct 17, 2011 1:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I hear you
I would’ve changed it earlier, but I was at work. It was an analogy I didn’t really think through, thus it’ll be gone. Changing it now.
by Pete Rossman on Oct 17, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
By idiots at MGoBlog...
You weren’t referring to me, were you?
I don’t think Michigan fans need TOC to point out comparisons with MSU and Miami. It’s kind of already a meme, ever since “20% of the team attacks a Dorm the First.” Second, It’s not a very exact comparison.
For one Miami embraced the bad boy image, while Michigan State isn’t ready to take up that mantle. The Canes specifically targeted kids that other teams passed on because of their records. They wore their juvie records like a badge. Like the marauding tribes of history whose names (barbaries, goths, vandals, thugs, hoodlums) are synonymous with brutality, Miami realized that sociopaths, if aimed at opposing quarterbacks instead of civilians (or civil engineering majors) can be used to devastating effect.
That’s not Michigan State. Miami’s swagger was about pride in being the bad guys; Michigan State’s is pride in being Spartans. It’s a mentality of loyalty: “we are MSU, therefore we are right.”
Why this mentality gets mistaken for Miami’s is because neither kind of mentality leaves room for second-guessing yourself. To a dispassionate observer (and a passionate anti-MSU observer), there is a pattern forming under Dantonio, going back to YSU, Saban/Williams-era MSU, OSU, Cincy, and now Michigan State, of loyalty being more important than morality.
I can hardly speak for most Michigan fans here but to me it’s not Gholston’s personal fouls that stick out so much that Dantonio put Gholston back in after each one. The Narduzzi quote I can dismiss as old man coach football talk. I don’t think the coaches told the Spartans to go out and get some unnecessary roughness calls to soften Michigan up. I do think they have been, since arriving in East Lansing, far too lenient with players who take their violence outside of the whistles. The record says if one of Dantonio’s players assaults someone, it is dealt with “in house,” and by that he means the player is taken aside and told not to embarrass the program again.
Look at this thread, and many far worse across the Internet this week, where MSU fans seem more concerned about how “this kind of exaggerated characterization will make it very hard to shake.”
Since when the f—- do you care what Michigan fans think of you? I didn’t hear any complaints when I told my Spartan family that I’m not rooting for MSU the rest of the way this year. Dantonio sent Gholston back in. He thinks this is okay, and this and that and the other thing is okay too, because the fans are so happy that he’s kicking Michigan’s butt to care.
MSU isn’t Miami. But you’re becoming Ohio State, and that is bad enough.
www.mgoblog.com
But you’re becoming Ohio State
You got that right – it’s been 5 games since M beat MSU in football, and what, at least 9, since it beat OSU?
I’ll take another entire graduating class of dominance right now . . .
That's the thing...
Michigan State can’t really do too much one way or another with how good Michigan will be next year except influence one game, maybe win a fight for a local recruit. Injuring a few guys to make the season look worse might be thrown in there too. Still as much damage as MSU did taking out Mike Martin last year with a late cheapshot, Michigan did far more damage to itself with bad defensive coaching.
The football games will be determined by who’s got the better football team. That’s somewhat but not majorly affected by program mentality. If anything, the thuggishness on Saturday hurt Michigan State. It knocked Lewan out for a few plays and Denard for the last drive (his earlier in-and-out-ing was something that happened on a clean play where Robinson went down on his hand — not anything untoward from MSU — but the back injury came on the last late hit). On the other hand at times it seemed Michigan was moving the ball better with State penalties than with our vaunted offense. Michigan State didn’t win this game because they played dirty; they won despite it.
So the “dominance” has little to do with a loyalty-first program mentality except in how it helps to establish some program stability until it’s outed. The mentality also means when things break, they break big. Ohio State is a national joke today, synonymous with dirty programs, and they got there because nobody in house — not the fans, the coach, the AD, the players — was equipped to say “this stuff is wrong.” When stuff broke, out came calls of “fake Buckeyes” and “Sacred Brotherhood.”
Things always break. If Dantonio has lax discipline, there will continue to be program-embarrassing acts by undisciplined players. The reason I don’t think MSU can ever take it so far as Tressel is that MSU fans and MSU’s administration are not Ohio State’s. Thanks to Tressel, the national media now know every single Tressel trick in the book, which (that and Saban’s) happens to be the very book Dantonio learned on.
The guy’s a damn good football coach and has built a damn good team. He “gets it” as far as the Michigan rivalry more than any coach at MSU in my lifetime. But he’s going to kill you if don’t make it ample clear that East Lansing is not Columbus, that morality is a static principle, not a given.
www.mgoblog.com
I don't want to respond, but I can't help myself.
Yes there have been incidents since Dantonio took over that have “embarrassed” MSU. There have been similar incidents at campuses all over the country. That’s not to say we can’t hope to hold ourselves to a higher standard, and I hope Dantonio does. But the reality of college football today is that you are bringing in 100ish kids, some of them are going to get into trouble.
I believe there is one football program in this state that has recently found itself sanctioned by the NCAA. And that program is NOT MSU. Before you complain about a Free Press witch hunt, etc, let me say I actually agree the Free Press way overstated their findings. But the fact of the matter is the NCAA still found cause to levy sanctions.
I only bring this up because of your classically vague prediction of: “The mentality also means when things break, they break big.” The fact is you have 0 evidence of some kind of legitimate scandal at MSU that would come close to rivaling what happened at OSU.
And now that I am sufficiently frustrated I will go further. There’s only one athletic department in this state that has had Final Four and B10 championship banners taken down and locked in a storage room. And no, I’m not going there just to irritate you. And yes I am aware that it happened 20 years ago. But it’s central to the point I am trying to make. Because what Michigan people never like to talk about is that it was the Michigan Man himself, then Athletic Director Bo Schembechler, who hired Steve Fisher.
And again, I’m not really bringing this up to poke fun at UM. Instead it’s to refute this vague notion you have developed that somehow the direction Dantonio is leading MSU is going to lead us to inevitable doom.
To a dispassionate observer (and a passionate anti-MSU observer), there is a pattern forming under Dantonio, going back to YSU, Saban/Williams-era MSU, OSU, Cincy, and now Michigan State, of loyalty being more important than morality.
Is that what happened at UM? Did their fan base, administration, and coaches make a conscious decision that winning, and being loyal were more important than morality?
Are you willing to answer “yes” to that question?
Because with 0 evidence of actual NCAA violations, or other types of corruption you are coming onto an MSU blog and essentially accusing our coaching staff and administration, and you even mentioned fans, of being morally defunct. Is that what causes a massive cheating scandal? Because if it is we don’t have to look all the way to Ohio to see an example of it.
by trivialstuff16 on Oct 18, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ah hit post before I was quite done
And also still don’t know how to use blockquote.
Was going to conclude:
I am actually NOT trying to cast stones at UM for what happened in the past. My point is that it’s rediculous to come make some vague prediction of inevitable program catastrophe and imply that it’s being tacitly accepted by the fan base, coaches, and administration, when there is 0 evidence to support that conclusion. Other than a couple of examples of off field incidents that people with no connection to the program or kids involved believe were handled incorrectly.
by trivialstuff16 on Oct 18, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Dude, c'mon
“I’m not just trying to troll you so here’s this irrelevant thing about your school. Oh and I’m not doing this to just piss you off but here’s another thing we all agree is irrelevant. Oh, and…”
You are like the person who says “not to be a dick” before he says something dickish. That whole thing was just casting stones that have nothing to do with your point.
Ohio State’s scandal was made possible by things that simply don’t exist at Michigan State. For one, a corrupt school president and AD. Second, one of the biggest markets in the country for signed team memorabilia.
What both schools share is the lack of transparency based in a program value of secrecy, or loyalty, or “keeping it in house,” combined with a pattern of non-discipline by Dantonio and undisciplined behavior — beyond that of a typical school — from players. The point about everything breaking at once is that this is common among loyalty-based organizations (mafia is a good example). A “Sacred Brotherhood” has no function if not to cover things up that would embarrass the brotherhood. However when a leak does occur, you tend to get a lot at once, as opposed to Fulmer Cup-like mini-releases.
I don’t think MSU is headed for a players-paid kind of thing at all (there isn’t that kind of market for Michigan State players). What breaks will probably be more like a State player permanently injuring somebody (again), or a fifth of the team attacking civilians (again again). Personally I think that kind of stuff is way worse than the same kids getting free cars and tattoos for their autographs, but fortunately for MSU the NCAA doesn’t see things that way.
www.mgoblog.com
Sidebar
I don’t want to interrupt the flow of this thread, but this whole thing reminds me of my 2 boys, 11 and 9.
They play like boys and when the older one plays a little too hard, the younger one cries and goes to his mother (The Big Ten/NCAA) in an attempt to get the older one punished for his behaviour. Of course she grew up with three brothers so gives him a hug and tells him she loves him and that he’ll be ok and that maybe next time he ought to either not play with his bigger brother or expect a little roughness. He doesn’t like this, so he comes to me (MSU AD) and repeats his complaints, but having watched the episode with my wife I tell him that his mother is right.
Usually he pouts for a little bit and then they play again.
Hmmm….who is the little brother now?
You, always you.
I’m the oldest of four but the brother 1 year younger than me and I have a relationship that’s so metaphorically perfect for M-MSU I was using it 10 years before Mike Hart made the analogy famous. There used to be a website called bitterrivals.com that’s now gone — I wrote a thing on there about the metaphor in 2000 or 2001.
Anyway when we were kids I beat him in everything. We’d go out in the yard and I’d be Desmond Howard and he’d be Elvis Grbac (we didn’t know anyone else’s names) except if Desmond Howard would then run through Elvis Grbac then wrestle him to the ground, pin his arms under the Desmond knees, and then use the free hands to f— with Elvis’s face. Grbac’s move at this point would be get a knee into Desmond Howard’s groin. Dirty, but when you are perpetually pinned to the grass and facing certain wet willy-age, what other options do you have?
So this is how it went in everything: I’d beat him, he’d play dirty to make up for the gaping, all-important 13 months more I had spent on this Earth (I may have spent most of those 13 months mostly sleeping, burping and shitting myself, but it still counts!).
Around high school he started playing offensive guard and I started playing, uh, guitar, and suddenly he could beat me in wrestling and a lot of other things too. Everything was a competition. Who’s a bigger fan of Charles Woodson became a competition. I went to Michigan, and he dreamed of doing the same but didn’t get in and this was hard because here was a guy who could now name way more than Desmond Howard and Elvis Grbac but didn’t even know one Spartan. Our dad went to MSU, mostly because it was either that or Vietnam, but even he was a Michigan fan.
So that’s when “Little Brother” for me became the perfect analogy. There’s a point in these programs’ where one already had all of the Yost stuff in the bank and the other had to start from scratch. One had a trophy case full of national championships while the other was begging into the Big Ten and holding a rigged student election to select a mascot.
To this day he is obsessed with competing with me in a million petty things. And just like how I would get up and call my little brother down for a knee that was decidedly against the unwritten rules of fraternal wrestling, today I’m the one acting as self-appointed minister of ethical behavior and he’s the one making sure his bedroom TV is at least 4 inches bigger than mine, etc.
Brothers grow up — the last wet willy dried up before 1992. But rivalries don’t. This rivalry is completely fraternal. If it sometimes brings out the worst in us, well, that’s what brothers do isn’t it.
www.mgoblog.com
Any of what you just said really matters?
None of the “lack of Yost” matters to 2011 Wisconsin. Or 2010. That seems to be working out ok for them. I’m all up on your cautions regarding consistency and transparency, even if it’s not quite my take. All this other stuff isn’t really an applicable analogy, it just means you were a generic d*** older brother. Happens all the time — what the hell is special about that? Everybody, 1 below if you had a generic d*** older brother. Give me an S=State or M=UofM if he went to either school, O=Other/NA otherwise (ex: S1; M+1+1 for twin generic d*** older brothers; ND+100000000 if Notre Dame is involved).
Your story doesn’t really mean anything regarding football or scholastic performance, it just means you and your brother need some serious hug time. Best of luck to you guys, I hope everything works out.
Right
It’s like the “I’m not racist, but, I hate all minorities & everything about them” guy.
AKA, the "I’m just sayin . . . " guy. Advice: Never be just sayin.
by MSUDersh on Oct 19, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A good time to lock the thread?
Wisconsin’s next, and the dead horse is starting to smell.
Plus the trolls will have their say after the Gholston announcement, anyway.
Only offered the qualifiers
Because I wanted to say I wasn’t doing it solely to irritate you, but to make a bigger point.
That point being that it’s rediculous to argue the culpability of us as fans towards potential, hypothetical problems that may or may not occur unless you are willing to accept your own implied culpability in ones that actually have occured at your school.
One point is that we are just fans. We cheer for the players that wear our colors. We defend them when rival fans trash them. To come over here and imply that means we are tacitly supporting players beating up civilians is rediculous.
My other point is that you, and for that matter us as MSU fans have no real understanding of the individual character of these kids you are arguing we should be taking such a hard line approach with. Dantonio’s decision to re-instate Winston ended up being terrible. It gave the University a black eye. Thus far his decision to suspend Sims for an entire season while his legal issues were worked out legal issues created in large part by people in his life like his father and uncle has worked out to the point that the judge involved in Sims case was writing letters arguing for his re-instatement. Maybe this decision comes back to haunt Dantonio, maybe it doesn’t. The point is, you don’t know. You watch these kids on TV, just like the rest of us.
So yea, I get irritated when people, regardless of which team they cheer for throw up hypothetical catastrophe’s and say they are going to be caused by some moral deficiency derived by blindloyalty or a win at all costs mentality that supposedly our entire university has bought into. It’s rediculous. And my point was that if you are going to make that argument for MSU, you have to apply it to UM.
I don’t like to get sucked into these things. And generally I manage to refrain from the petty trash talk that goes on in some of the more rediculous forums on the internet. But I’m sorry I read your entire argument as implicity questioning the integrity of not only the coaching staff and administration, but the fans too for cheering for their team.
And you are making this claim based on watching some football games, having never had a meaningful interaction with anyone involved. I bring up the past at UM to point out that you are making this claim from some moral highground that you think you hold, which is frankly complete bullshit.
by trivialstuff16 on Oct 19, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
the last three paragraphs
are the smartest things anyone has ever written on this whole idea.
the whole idea that dantonio is some sort of evil person, incapable of being a mentor or leader of young men is rediculous and spawned out of jealousy. Mark Dantonio is the exact kind of coach Michigan has needed the last 5 years. And the fan base will do anything to tarnish what they dont have.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
+ 1
In that I agree with your – 1.
I suspect that most of us on here watch more than just MSU games, but if you don’t, please watch an LSU or Alabama game, or go back and watch an OSU game when they were winning.
Good defenses are nasty, hit hard, play right up to the whistle, right up to the sidelines. Yes, they’re smart and tackle well and all those things, but good defenses usually strike fear into their opponent as well.
The other thing good defenses do is not take cheap shots from entitled punks like the Michigan players.
The reason Denard doesn’t play in the SEC is because he knows he would have been snapped in half a year ago.
We’re the little brother because the little brother rarely knocks the big brothers teeth out after the big brother crosses the line.
A few thoughts:
Fanbase was tremendous during the game. I was in attendance. It was wild. Crazy. Pandemonium on the 4th down play where Johnny Adams got Denard, as well as the Pick 6 by Isaiah Lewis.
William Gholston: I’ve seen and watched both plays that he was flagged a few times. The first one… I can’t decide how intentional the twist was. As a former football player, its amazing what can look intentional, even if it isn’t, and maybe I’m biased and trying to find a way to excuse it, but I have a hard time believing that he would intentionally do something like that. The second penalty, I’m willing to forgive. It was a stupid retaliation, but Lewan was literally shoving his face into the dirt by the back of his helmet. This wasn’t a clean, full on block, it was pretty cheap itself.
Offense: Played pretty efficiently when the wind was at their backs, very inefficiently when the wind was in their face. Keyshawn had a bad day outside of his two TD receptions. TEs were seemingly invisible for the majority of the game – when will Roushar find them? We still have tremendous TE and Receive depth in general, its OK to use them!
Defense: Swagger is the best way to put it. They play with anger. I said back in August to a lot of people that I thought this defense would be better than it was last year, and that prediction seems to be holding true. They’re angry, upset, and good. Next week will be the best test all year, and as the adage goes, “if they can’t score, they can’t win.”
yep, next week is the test
We just shut down two B1G teams with one-dimensional offenses. I hope we have improved since playing ND. I don’t think Russell Wilson will miss “open for a easy TD” receivers like OSU and UM did… yet I fear we’ll have to keep the blitzes really dialed up to get past their OL. Play like we did Saturday, and have a flawless secondary performance, and we’ve got a good shot. Make some mistakes and it could get ugly fast.
It's been said before, but it's worth repeating
This team does not deserve to be compared to a notorious Miami program.
Whether it’s the intent or not, it invites comparison to off-the-field issues and lack of institutional control. This is clearly not the case, despite the message being pushed loudly and repeatedly by the Michigan blogosphere. One player and one truly egregious play should not be made representative of the entire Michigan State community.
We deserve better.
The Ghoulston/'dirty'stuff is being ridiculously blown out of proportion...
He got caught retaliating on that punch – I don’t see this as a huge deal. Kids take cheap shots at each other all the time in games like this all the time – most go unnoticed. As Stuka posted in links above – Michigan players have done the same thing. And you know damn-well that the UM players were running their mouths and talking trash to the MSU players all game long and taking cheap-shots of their own. The only thing I can say about the penalties is that they were stupid because they stopped the game from being a complete blow-out. Also – It’s not like he (or any of the MSU players) was picking on some defenseless little kid. They were playing against big scary athletic people too who were perfectly capable of hitting back when MSU was playing rough. Someone posted this on the RCMB about the kid Ghoulston punched:
"He is, just, dirty sometimes, which is what a Big Ten offensive lineman should be like," Roh said. "Just a nasty guy, a guy that you’re like, ‘I don’t want to go against him again.’ And I never hear someone on the defense saying, ‘Oh, Taylor’s just a really nice guy to go against.’ Everyone is like, ‘He’s holding me, he’s knocking me over when the play is over.’
My guess is that dude absolutely earned what he got from Ghoulston.
I'm going to take PR's side on this one...
It doesn’t really matter what comparisons we draw to which team from history on a blog; when a few bad apples commit those types of penalties in front of a national TV audience, the court of public opinion will already be against us.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if certain UM players played dirty or not; we have to be the better, more disciplined team.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m stoked MSU won and hope we stick it to Wisconsin next weekend, but I don’t want to win this way. Let’s clean up our act.
Thoughts on the game
I’ll start with one of the few negatives and it’s the mistakes/penalties that kept this game much closer than it should have been. Both fumbles were more on guys for not protecting the ball well enough. It wasn’t like either one happened b/c a defender put his helmet on the ball or punched it out cleanly. Way too many PF’s, especially the ones that happened after the play was over. We can play aggressive and tough while still playing smart.
However, I loved how physical we’ve been the last two games. We physically out classed OSU and UofM in back to back weeks. When’s the last time we could ever say that? The defense was just amazing again. Nothing came easy for Michigan. While there’s still a lot of games left this year it’s fun knowing that our defense should be even better next year. Even if Worthy goes pro we’ll return 19 of 22 players on our 2-deep defensively.
The o-line has progressed 3 straight weeks although I completely disagree that UofM has one of the better d-lines in the conference. One of the best d-lines in the conference doesn’t give up over 6 YPC against ND, NW, and MSU while totaling 6 sacks in 7 games. Ever since Travis Jackson has stepped in at center after his injury the o-line has played better.
Also, wasn’t it Isaiah Lewis with the late hit out of bounds?
New Headline
How about “Michigan State 28, Michigan 14 — Defending Like It’s 1999”
Because in my opinion, the best comparison for that defensive performance is our very own 1999 team, led by Julian Peterson, Robaire Smith, Josh Thornhill, Renaldo Hill, and Aric Morris. Fun fact: Julian had 30 (THIRTY) tackles for loss that year. For my lifetime (I was a little too young to appreciate the ‘87 defense), that has been the gold standard of MSU defense, and with our back-to-back performances against OSU and UM (combined with the absolute dominations against FAU and CMU), it’s safe to put this group at least in the conversation with that team.
What I find interesting about the penalties is that against OSU, a game that saw MSU record 9 sacks and 13 tackles for loss, we only had 6 penalties for 54 yards (and only 2 against the defense). So you really can’t say that the penalties are a necessary evil if you want the aggression/emotion/physicality required for a dominating defensive performance. Now we just need to combine the intensity of the Michigan game with the non-stupid-penalty-making of the OSU game, and we’ll have the perfect balance.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
Hopefully, we're not "too" similar to the '99 team....
….since they got gashed by Wisconsin a week after beating Michigan that year.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
There is someone here who is being left out
I’d like to give this certificate to the man behind the scenes (but the loudest on the sideline), Ken Mannie for all his hard work in the weight room and making this team the most physical they’ve ever been. So here’s to you, Ken Mannie!
by SpartyFever on Oct 17, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Exhibit A: Added 30 punds of muscle to Gholston in 2 years
Ken Mannie, indeed.
Whatever to all of this self loathing
Looking around the UofM blogsphere this morning and listening to various UofM talking media personalities, I am hearing how we deserved “several” suspensions / expulsions / felony convictions from that game… and anyone who says that can train harder and play harder next year. Gholston will probably be suspended for a game, and likely deserves it. But this post and line of thinking from MSU fans needs to stop right now. When you don’t take a player like Robinson to the ground, check out the 15 yard scramble for a TD he had. You have to make the other team pay for being quick and clever, and we did that. Trying to twist some guys head around? Yeah, uncalled for. But where is the UofM outrage when Kovacks twisted Persa’s helmet around his head 180 degrees last week (and didn’t even get a flag for it)?
I’m of the opinion that the OP should be changed to reflect the success we had on the field, and not the stupid UofM party line coming out of Ann Arbor radio this weekend.
"It's a trap!"
You sir...
Are a foolish person to compare the Kovacs attempt at a tackle on Persa and what Gholston did after the whistle was blown. While Kovacs should have been flaged for a facemask, it was as an attempt to tackle a player while the ball was in play and appeared to be unintentional. Gholston’s action was malicous and at a dead ball. You sir, are a fool for trying to compare these.
by TitaniumTim on Oct 17, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, then what about this?
No one has said ANYTHING about this, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0A3Ta3Au3E&feature=youtu.be
Are you just going to call me a fool too?
by The Birchman on Oct 17, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
is there
some way we can do more than just see a still photo? A still photo really doesn’t tell me much.
I see an obvious facemask
I don’t see it being yanked, and I can’t without a moving picture. I’d love to call out UM hypocrisy, but a picture without context during a moving play says nothing.
What about this?
I’m calling the momo, a fool for comparing apples and oranges. You’re just trying to stir things up by giving a tit for a tat. Michigan State played undisciplined and was lucky to NOT have an inferior team comback on them. Period.
You can call out someone's opinion
Without calling them names. Please do so.
by Pete Rossman on Oct 17, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Gholston deserves to be suspended
Don’t get me wrong, I am very happy we won, and the penalties aside we played a great game, especially on defense. The re-emergence of the running game is a real plus if it continues. As you noted, there’s no excuse for the face mask twist. The punch may have been provoked, but in that case you have another opportunity on the next play, or the play after that, to exact revenge within the context of play. Doing it after the whistle is just dumb.
I thought the late hit out of bounds was stupid, but it wasn’t really hard enough of a hit to endanger the opposing player, so in that sense I wouldn’t call it dirty – just over-exuberant. The two roughing penalties bothered me a little more – they were dumb and a little dirty. If you’re airbound before the guy gets rid of the ball and you hit him, fine, that’s clean. But grabbing and throwing him down after the hit, when the ball is long gone, endangers the QB’s health and is an obvious call. Both the roughing penalties were of that variety, IMO. All in all the “play dirty” issues are being overdone, but there is some reason for complaint, and there were some questionable decisions being made out there – we should be more disciplined.
The bottom line is that this would have been an easy win if not for the penalties. I mean, we were backed up inside our 10 so many times thanks to the extra yardage we gave them that we could never really get going on a lot of drives. If Gardener sees that receiver wide open in the end zone two strides earlier, the ballgame is all tied up when it shouldn’t have been close. We let them hang around with stupid penalties, and one bounce the wrong way and all the good would have been thrown away.
As you noted, we’re not typically a penalty prone team, so lets hope this was rivalry game adrenaline and won’t happen again. And lets hope we can play cleaner but just as well next time we play U of M.
by TheCrestedHelm on Oct 17, 2011 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
We shouldn't have to analyze a late hit out of bounds
These things happen in almost 100% of college football games. To get flagged a single time for this in a game is not something that warrants apology or analysis.
Same with the, what, 2 roughing the passer calls. This happens in almost every game in football. Are the Lions forums all abuzz with the fact that there were a few called? Is SF a “dirty team”?
UofM has forced us into overanalysis on ourselves. We need to stop this.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Oct 17, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
For example, from mgoblog
Nothing dirty – I love that we stayed classy – but I would have been ok with a penalty for a late hit on Cousins (again, nothing dirty or aiming to injure at all), just to send a message that it is not ok to do what they tried to do to Denard.
Yeah, so our late hits were “dirty, and aiming to injure”, while they wanted to get one of the more vanilla ones that wasn’t “dirty, and aiming to injure”. The duality is amazing here.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Oct 17, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
MGoBlog is a joke...
I look at it and it looks like a holocaust denier website or a ‘we didn’t really land on the moon!’ type site. There is no real logic in anything there — everything is of the ‘We have chosen a stance and will say/believe anything to justify this stance and just ignore everything that may contradict it’.
Brian is a fine writer
when he’s not writing about MSU.
His message board, however, is worse than the RCMB.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
People read RCMB?
I’m a State fan and not even I can stomach what’s on that board
by SpartyFever on Oct 17, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You got that right
Weird formatting aside, I find the commentary on there to be very low brow at best.
Easy on the Holocaust
Comparing anything to the Holocaust ends poorly.
by msuduster on Oct 17, 2011 1:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You are taking a quote from one person's opinion
Maybe he is under the opinion that Michigan wasn’t dirty either, just overly aggressive and he would like Michigan to do the same.
by clay-born to party on Oct 17, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought my "analysis"
was basically that the out of bounds play was something that happens practically every game. I will say that we’d have been pissed if Cousins got injured on an obvious roughing the QB. And a team doesn’t get as many PFs as we did in this game very often. And I’m not reacting to how U of M fans were reacting – I have not visited a single one of their blogs since the game.
I was reacting the same way during the game thread – this has nothing to do with what they think of us, but only about how I would like to see us play. Those dumb PFs cost us lots of yardage and turned what might have been a laugher into a fairly close game until the pick 6.
by TheCrestedHelm on Oct 17, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Rough Play...
…is a part of football. I know, and I only played 2 years of it. MSU was jacked up and aggressive. ALL COACHES WANT TO SEE THAT. I know Hoke wants to see that from his guys…even moreso now that they were thoroughly beaten. If we went over the line, we got called on it. Enough is enough about this stuff. If we do this next week, we lose to a much more talented team than what aa had to give us.
As for Gholston’s helmet twist – I can’t tell you how many times the helmet got twisted on my head while playing – and guess what? I was just fine – it looks much worse than it is. The helmet will spin before your head does. To all those aa folks that think Gholston should go to jail for it because it would have severely hurt Robinson, I ask if they’ve ever played football. Shit like that happens ALL THE TIME. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it happens and is part of the game. In my mind, that’s the only PF we had that could be considered ‘dirty.’ I don’t like it, and hope that Coach D sits him for the first quarter.
Gholston should sit a game.
Other than that, no apologies. Not to an institution that has constantly belittled ours and pulled numerous tricks to stamp us out. This isn’t checkers. I am a bit unnerved at all the apologizing we are doing today.
by rook34 on Oct 17, 2011 10:36 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
This
It shouldn’t be discussed at this length. Gholston should get a game or two suspension and MSU alumni/fans should be celebrating a victory.
Giving it a little time to get some emotional distance from it all
Yeah, that sounds about right. Honestly, I’m still not happy with the sheer number of personal fouls (even if only one of them was really “dirty”, the rest just over-aggressive or plain stupid), but the Michigan fans out there who are saying that Michigan would never sink to such depths are either 1) unaware that college football existed before 2008 or 2) possessed of an incredibly short, selective memory. Or was I imagining all the “GUNS DON’T KILL PEOPLE, LAMARR WOODLEY KILLS PEOPLE” T-shirts I saw (especially after 2004, when Stanton got injured and half the stadium was cheering)?
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Gholston suspended?
I say NO. He got his 15 yard penalty (and it happened at a time that could have really helped UM). It’s not like he picked him up by the facemask and dragged him backwards 5 yards. It was an unnecessary twist. Denard doesn’t even complain about it. He knows he’s going to get taken down hard. He also knows if someone tries to take him down politely, he’ll run away and score in a second without apologizing.
Who cares if the fans at the other place don’t like it???
If these penalties and the result were the other way, do you think they’d be spending any energy engaging in this discussion??
Grow up, people. It’s football, not baseball.
I actually hope we are willing to take a penalty every now and then to set the tone.
Sitting Gholston isn't for PR
It’s for the good of the team. He needs to learn some control and channel his exuberance in a way that won’t lose us games when they really count. That’s part of coaching.
If you're going to sit him
Sit him for the first quarter of Wisconsin game. I agree with ThibTW that this is football, and this sort of thing happens.
I don’t have video of this, but M fan favorite Jordan Kovacs had a far scarier, potentially harmful, and IMO, worse incidence of facemask grabbing only ONE GAME EARLIER, against NU.
Do any of you remember late in the game (I think it was on NU’s last offensive series), when coach Pat Fitzgerald received a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct flag for berating the officials? I thought he was going to explode right there on the field.
Well, he was upset bc Kovacs practically decapitated QB Dan Persa with a facemask-turn the head 180 degress-tear off the helmet combo, that the officials didn’t even see.
Sure Gholstons’s incidence happend with Denard on the ground, but honestly, I think trying to remove someone’s head, by the facemask, when the QB is running one way & the DB running the other, is far more dangerous & unsportsmanlike. (Scroll down in this Lake the Posts story to “Fitz’s Fire”).
"This sort of thing" = nonsense
Let’s strain our powers of recall and go back to the beginning of the facemask play.
Robinson was on the ground, wrapped up in three or four Nike Attack jerseys and looking like a bug being digested by a Venus Flytrap. THEN Gholston jumps the pile at least two counts late, then does his facemask bit.
I don’t give a shit about what Kovacs did, because Wolverine hypocrisy is not my concern. We’re never changing that. The point is, MSU had just knocked the snot out of Robinson with a legit gang tackle, the play was obviously over, and Gholston was utterly blind or indifferent to it. Which is not good football, rough or otherwise. So he needs to get that Detroit PSL crap corrected.
Fair enough
And I certainly support your “I don’t care what they did, just what our guys did” approach – Lord knows I’ll be telling a variation of that line to my kids one day!
I guess I like pointing that out in response to the barrage of hate I’ve been getting from M family (my dad, his 3 brothers, all of their wives, and 5 of my 8 first cousins on his side all M undergrad & grad degrees, so I get sh*t all the time), and especially the blowing of the prevailing winds on places like MGoBlog that M is “classy” and only lost bc of MSU’s dirty play.
Of course, that’s the natural reaction of a loser – take attention away from the game, and the domination that MSU generally showed over this game’s 150 snaps (including punts & kickoffs), and try to shift the focus to “dirty” play.
The more sane of us think two things
1) Michigan got outplayed, and also outcoached in the M Off. v. MSU D matchup.
2) Gholston should be suspended, that late dive-and-helmet-twist was some Reynolds/Sorgi level garbage, not even taking into account that the punch is usually an auto-suspension (usually it’s an ejection too). The game announcers on TV were acting pretty surprised Gholston was still playing after the things he’d done. So… yeah, if Dantonio doesn’t suspend him I’d be shocked if the conference didn’t.
Sure as hell didn’t lose because of the dirty play though, all those yards gave them a shot at winning. But for an utterly retarded offensive playcall on 4th and inches inside MSU’s10 that was about to be a tie game in the 4th quarter despite pretty clearly being outplayed. Really only two reasons for that — the penalty yards, and Hagerup burying MSU deep a number of times with punts OOB inside the 10.
by Yinka Double Dare on Oct 17, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Slightly OT
(first, thanks for the reply).
Secondly, you stated
if Dantonio doesn’t suspend him I’d be shocked if the conference didn’t.
I’m not disputing your opinion on this, but my question is: Does the conference have the authority to punish individual players? I have no idea whether it does, I’m racking my brain to think of instances in which the B1G (or another) conference has punished an individual player.
I’m pretty sure that conferences can punish staff, see for example Jim Boheim’s upcoming suspension to kick off the Big East hoops season, but does it have that authority over players?
Mouton's 09 punch
against ND, according to the freep: http://www.freep.com/article/20111017/SPORTS07/110170443/MSU-responds-complaints-about-rough-play
(this one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPYueAc5XAE
Oh ok thanks
Wasn’t sure what type of authority the conferences have over players, but apparently enough to make that call!
Oh, absolutely
Mouton is one, as mentioned. Zach Reckman of Purdue got suspended for this (oddly enough I was at this game, and it was pretty blatant):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-SAV1U8Hl4
I think they also suspended Kurt Coleman that year for a flying helmet-to-helmet on a defenseless receiver.
by Yinka Double Dare on Oct 17, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
B1G suspended him I believe
That one was actually sort of surprising and not like the others. Mouton and Reckman were not football plays. Reckless flying spears to a defenseless receiver are bad and should be curbed, but at least it’s still in the context of something you could call football. Five years earlier and he doesn’t even get flagged and he gets on ESPN’s JACKED UP highlights.
by Yinka Double Dare on Oct 17, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
If U of M had gotten the penalties and still won the game
Imagine what the tone coming out of AA would be? They would turn it into a whole “Big Brother recrowned!” thing and would give ZERO apologies. I’m with Narduzzi that in a game like that, you go for total destruction and accept some collateral damage. Players understand that stuff is happening in every game and don’t consider it dirty. If we acted like that towards Indiana I would feel bad, but towards Michigan? We gave them the beat down they deserved.
by StickyGreen on Oct 17, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Thuggery is in the eye of the beholder
To us – Woodley, Petway, Messner (sucker punched Mandarich) among many others.
To them – Ghoolston (ha ha), Dantonio, cheerleaders, ballboys, students, Zeke, etc.
Before Laimbeer and Mahorn were Pistons – thugs. After, sweet as apple pie.
I doubt whether this will be the last incident for either team.
At least Michigan played cleanly all game....
and Ghoulston was nothing but thuggery the entire time:
http://youtu.be/KLp3wh3QHi4?hd=1
<"/Sarcasm> :-)
Pretty sure the MGoBlog’ers will just claim those are somehow photoshop’d.
by MooTheKow on Oct 17, 2011 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
WOW
Gholston is such a thug – did you see how mean he was when he helped up Denard after the final two plays on that clip!
Also, what exactly did he do on the first play to get that flag – the whistle didn’t even blow until after he had jumped on DR, about a quarter of a second after Denard went down!
People are trying to meet the UM bitching halfway
They’re wrong in doing so.
It’s a game of football. We screwed up by getting too many penalties. We paid the price in added yardage. The referees were also shit.
Gholston sat a series. That’s enough. Screw this ‘suspend him for a game!’ bullshit to cater to the morons in Ann Arbor and Wal-Marts everywhere. He was playing hard and got overly emotional twice. He paid the price both times, unlike many of the Wolverines.
This is completely out of hand.
It's not just "the morons in Ann Arbor and Wal-Marts everywhere"
The game announcers were surprised Gholston was still in the game at all, and pretty much anyone in the media who has commented outside of Michigan thinks he should be suspended. Robert Reynolds choked Jim Sorgi in the pile and he got suspended. Jonas Mouton punched a Notre Dame player a couple years ago and got suspended. Gholston dove on a pile late and twisted the QB’s head by the facemask and in a separate play punched a Michigan player. Pretty sure sitting him for a couple of plays isn’t going to be considered sufficient. This isn’t ’Nam, there are rules.
by Yinka Double Dare on Oct 17, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Racial Slur
Am I the only one who has heard that just before the punch, while holding Ghoulstons face mask, Lewan referred to Ghoulston with a racial slur?
It’s been all over twitter from inside the MSU locker room, where the incident was discussed.
U-M coaching was atrocious
OK, ready to move on from PFs.
Couple of questions for the umer’s out there – I hope they are happy with their coaching staff, because I know I am! I call your attention to the following:
1) Swapping Denard in and out for the backup QB. Not only are you taking your playmaker (you only have one, as good as he is, he can’t help your team if he doesn’t touch the ball)out of the play, you are disrupting the rhythym of both players. Stupid move that Hoke not only knew of, but likely called for. Can’t blame that on the OC.
2) Speaking of the OC, all the umers are pointing to the 4th and inches where Denard got sacked by Johnny Adams (Johnny 5 Alive!). That WAS dumb. But there were quite a few other plays that they ran that were just as dumb – and they didn’t have the players to execute. Why did they keep trying to have Denard pass, when it was clear he had no business doing so? We had what…2-3 dropped ints?
3) um’s players were not prepared. It was clear who the better, more physical, more prepared team was. I guess um is saving it for the OSU game? um seemed to play with a lack of desire, and that is a direct reflection of the coaches. If you can’t get up for this game, what are you doing? We were not only amped for this game, but I think it’s a carryover from the OSU game, and I think it carries over to next week, too (Hopefully without the stupid penalties).
um didn’t belong on the field today. I hope they bring that same attitude next year. Who knows? Maybe um gets fired up, commits dumb penalties to “retaliate,” and we punish them for it. I “Hoke” this is the coach we play against every year!
Gholston
Dantonio needs to suspend him. If he doesn’t the B1G will.
Yes, it will hurt our team, but isn’t that the point? You can’t do stuff like that and play. It will send a message to all our players that unnecessary penalties don’t do anything but hurt the team.
by msuduster on Oct 17, 2011 1:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Offensive playcalling
I was a big fan of MSU’s offensive playcalling this week.
While I have no X’s & O’s knowledge other than that accrued as a lifetime of being a football fan, it seems that our offensive gameplan was exactly what was needed – 24 passes vs. 39 runs (though one of two Cousins runs was a broken play scramble, so you can adjust the ratio to 25 pass vs. 38 run calls).
The team took a few shots downfield, most notably KMart’s drop of a wide-open sure TD, but for the most part, the passing game was short & intermediate passes to seemingly minimize the effects of the crazy wind, as well as reduce opportunities for M defenders to knock the ball down and/or pick it off.
There were no weird blocking formations a la ND game, and the only real trickeration I remember is when 4 WRs would line up in a diamond on one side of the field or the other, and set up for a quick screen to KM.
I feel like the O-Line blocked very well, while I’m not qualified by any means to grade them, between the healthy rushing stats, the fact that KC wasn’t sacked at all, and only one false start (early 2nd Q) & only one holding call (early in 4th Q on Bell run), tells me that the line is jelling, blocking well, and not easily intimidated.
I think some of the playcalling has to do with consistent poor field position after Hagerup punts that were spotted inside the 10, which should by it’s nature lead to conservative calls, but at the same time, MSU led the entire second half, and (it seems to me) wisely played conservative, daring M to beat them, as opposed to beating themselves.
IMHO, Roushar’s finest game as OC so far.
I was pretty surprised at the punt on 4th and 1 in the first half in Michigan territory
The way you were shoving it down the throat of the defense on the ground it seemed like kind of a waste to punt there. Of course, that’s likely on the head coach to make that call, not the coordinator.
The Football Gods were of course not amused and immediately hit the “smite” button to flip the field position so MSU didn’t even get any real benefit out of that punt, and seemingly spent the rest of the half starting drives inside their own 10 instead.
by Yinka Double Dare on Oct 17, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I absolutely HATED that punt.
To that point, Michigan hadn’t stopped an off-tackle run all day for less than four yards. It’s 4th and 1 in opposing territory. I don’t think there’s even anything resembling debate in that situation, you go for it unless you’re up two scores under two minutes to go.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I was shouting "Go for it"
At the time at my tv, however, I’m not going to be too upset about the punt.
I would have been really upset, though, had MSU run a fake punt right there. I know Mousetrap worked in a similar situation last season vs. NW, but I think the Spartans need to lay low on the ST trick plays for now. They struck gold twice last season, but were stuffed badly this season on one vs. ND.
IMO, save the tricks for later in the season, and in a situation like that vs. M on Sat., either run a traditional play or punt away.
The worst part about not going for it
we pinned them back inside their 15 but then gave up a decent pass play that got them into decent field position. Then the rash of personal fouls started on that drive (I think we gave them 30 yards worth of penalty yardage on that drive, if not more). They didn’t score, but by the time you added up what they got offensively plus the free yardage we gave them, they were able to pin us deep.
Basically, the subsequent defensive series lost us the field position battle for the rest of the half, mostly because of dumb penalties, not because they were playing well on offense.
by TheCrestedHelm on Oct 18, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I think Roushar called a fine game overall but it was a mistake not going for it on that 4th and 1 in your territory, especially since we had ran the ball so well.
Closing comments for now
There’ll be a post on Gholston’s suspension/nonsuspension when it happens. For now though, this issue is bombed out and depleted.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
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