Michigan State 37, Iowa 21 -- Your After Party Thread
by Pete Rossman on Nov 12, 2011 2:53 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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PrintThat didn't quite feel like a Dance of Joy performance, did it? MSU roared out in the first half, taking advantages of Iowa miscues to the tune of a 31-7 halftime score. You know what happened next however, and...man, that sure seemed like the closest 16-point win in program history. Anyway, as the song goes, done, done, onto the next one.
The good parts -- Le'Veon Bell was a beast, and I cannot understand why he didn't have more touches throughout the game. When Narduzzi finally figured out that he should have Johnny Adams on Marvin McNutt at all times instead of The Dennard/Lippett combo the problem was solved -- hopefully Johnny gets all-Big Ten consideration. Kirk Cousins continued to make a couple mind-boggling decisions, but he was absolutely on fire the first half of the game, and is still an upper-echelon quarterback in the conference.
MSU has to beat Indiana and go to Northwestern to punch a ticket to the Big Ten title game, and while they're not there yet, it's hard not to feel much more confident about that than in earlier in the day.
This is the After Party thread. LET'S HAVE A REAL GOOD TIME (drinks a case of Dr. Pepper under an overpass).
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Three things to do to reach Rose Bowl.
1) Beat Indiana on senior day
2) Beat NW on the road. Tough game against a mobile QB
3) and…I forgot..FDA?? oops.
cautious optimism my friend.
we celebrate when we beat the next two teams.Remember if we come flat like against Minnesota…it will be tough. Can’t take anything for granted in the Big ten this year.
by spartynation on Nov 12, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
chances of that are sooooo remote.
The green bay Packers are not beating WISCONSIN at Camp Randell
by spartynation on Nov 12, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
Closer to the prize at the end of the road, indeed!
Spartans survived the brawl, nice start and better finish.
BHGP
BHGP has turned into a total piss and moan fest. If it isn’t the “faked injuries” it’s the incompetent zebras. If it isn’t the zebras it was the “MSU thugs” hitting their poor little guys too hard. If it wasn’t the thugs it was the “no-class” Dantonio who coaches these thugs to hit their poor little guys too hard. And no one had better point out that the bad calls went both ways or that their team sucked in the first half or that Jerrel Worthy was kneed in the man zone by the Iowa tackle he bull rushed and knocked on his ass or the entire HawkNation will rise up and smite him. It’s like reading an MGoBlog post game thread after a UM loss.
Yeah apparently they've heard of
and are completely familiar with the “QB intended to run out of bounds” rule.
Bama Hawkeye has been down on us all year
I’m sure he helps set the tone of discussion around there. It makes sense that they are looking for excuses after losing to such an inferior team today.
http://pittsfieldindex.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pittsfield-Ratings-Index/142673082487903
by PittsfieldIndex on Nov 12, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
ha...Bama Hawkeye had a 7-5 record for us in Summer.
Do not forget Stoopsmyass.
That is Abbott and Costello. Right there.
by spartynation on Nov 12, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Bama Hawkeye is reasonably even keeled when it comes to all things B1G.
Although I may be biased as we are colleagues on the OTE. I can’t speak to what he posts on BHGP but then again my tone here is usually different than my tone on the OTE.
OTE-fair and balanced??
I dunno MSULaxer27..OTE site is run by heavy biased towards OSU, Wisc, and Iowa. Teams like MSU, NW, Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue are regular punching bags.
Michigan -no one likes them.
NEbraska-new to the pack.we will see in a year.
PSU-no comment.
by spartynation on Nov 12, 2011 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that is a completely fair characterization - And I never used the term fair and balanced.
Please understand that I am talking about the writers and not the commentors.
The OTE was started by a couple of OSU guys and a UM guy (all lawyers -hence the original blog name "The Rivalry, Esq.). Eventually other fanbase representatives joined. MSU, NU-L and Purdue were the last to come aboard, so that now the only teams not represented are Illinois and Indiana. I think that history might lend itself to the perception that the OTE’s coverage is slanted to a particular school or schools.
I would agree that the comments tend to lean heavy OSU/PSU/UW and Iowa but I have seen a lot more Spartans on there (Spartan D, MSUDersh, cw, Spartan Dan etc.) since I have started contributing.
I wouldn’t say that we are “punching bags”. I would argue that NU is not a punching bag either since Chad (ChadNUDJ) is such a regular contributor (Hilary while a UW alum is attending NU law as well). Minny, Indiana and the zookers do get the brunt of unfavorable press, but I believe that is because they are Minny, IU and and the fast fading Illini. Still we have a Minny writer on “staff”.
You may have issue with Bama’s weekly bowl projection list where I feel he consistently under ranks us. As I’ve stated that is his opinion. You might remember our weekly power polls. The week after we beat UW – MSU was ranked #1 (and received every first place vote except for one).
I don’t know. Maybe I have become biased since I communicate with the people there off site…I think we have a good mix of respectful and insightful writers at the OTE (Jon had his letter from an OSU to PSU fan picked up by a local PA media outlet). We are still fans of our teams though, and make no claim to be completely unbiased at all times.
I hope you will continue to read us and chime in when you feel slighted or that someone is factually incorrect.
Oh yeah:
GO GREEN!
MSU Laxer 27...You are doing a gr8 job.
keep it up. I always find writers on TOC being fair and well balanced. It is atestimony to this website and the MSU alums/students who participate in it. I would rather believe Fox News agreeing on global warming than OTE being unbiased.Probably it is my opinion, but I have decided to stop reading OTE as the blog is not an accurate unbiased representation of Big ten.
For example, Hillary Lee could not get over the Wisconsin loss to MSU. You lose some games, you win some. YOu do not have to be condescending towards the campus and school and start spewing hatred towards MSU students and the institution.Everyone is educated and you need to keep ur composure, especially true for the lawyers at OTE. They come across as uncivilized and losing it after big game loss. I have a PhD from MSU in chemistry and I am proud of my degree and the university.I lived through the Bobby Williams and JLSmith era in the campus. There is so much hate on the OTE website for teams that are not Iowa, OSU, Wisconsin,PSU.It seems an exclusive fraternity where other fans are not welcome. I am not going to fight for equal representation at OTE, but I am done participating in articles.
P.S. another gr8 website other than TOC is Blessyouboys-for TIger fans.
by spartynation on Nov 13, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
it is ok..
for BGHP it is that time of the year.
They start questioning humanity, science, evolution, football and $3.5 million pay to KF
by spartynation on Nov 12, 2011 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Screw BHGP and screw Iowa.
That is all I have to say about that.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
To quote Brett Ratner
Rehearsal is for Hawkeyes fans.
One of those dopes literally his post touting how proud he was to be part of a fan base that can lose with honor and class… and in the next sentence, began blaming MSU for everything except the Kennedy assassination. Meanwhile, another is talking about how the Spartans and Dantonio underachieve given all their talent. Yeah, we should have taken all our 3-stars out to Florida and just waxed Alabama’s ass, when every other Big Ten team was thanking God they didn’t have to play those guys.
I love me some BHGP
I even bought a “Friend of the Pants” T-shirt.
If you go back through their open game thread, by halftime they knew they were being beaten down by a better team and admitted as much.
The second half was just adding insult to injury (if you’ll pardon the phrase), hence the kvetching.
I’m sure we weren’t the classiest fanbase either during the second half of last year’s whupping.
Bottom line, this was a great road win — dare I say “statement” win — for MSU. We shouldn’t let anyone’s anonymous internet whining divert our attention from that fact.
That did feel like the closest
16 point win I’ve ever watched. I’ll take it but it really should not have been that close. We’re the driver’s seat now though so no complaints.
by TheCrestedHelm on Nov 12, 2011 5:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Pre-season Betting
Most of the season win totals in Vegas had MSU at 7. If you bet the over, feel free to collect.
http://pittsfieldindex.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pittsfield-Ratings-Index/142673082487903
by PittsfieldIndex on Nov 12, 2011 5:21 PM CST reply actions
so. regarding the "injuries" that seem to be a big topic of discussion
Read this. just because he’s not badly injured doesn’t mean staying down is cheating.
TV Announcers and NY Football Giants
I blame this on them, if the giants weren’t caught so blantantly faking every subsequent player exhausted at the end of a tough game wouldn’t be accused of cheating.
Cal rather famously did it against Oregon a couple years back.
Before that I’d never heard the accusation against anyone.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Agreed
There are definitely many other great examples of the fake injuries, I just love the one where the two Giants defenders fall, and one looks at the other as if to say,“Oh, you got this one.” and get’s up.
Wow. That's impressively bad.
Right up there with the Women’s World Cup quarterfinal against Brazil, when Erika laid down on the ground until they brought out a stretcher then hopped off and ran to the fourth ref to check back in the instant the stretcher was off the field (didn’t even wait for them to set it down). Frankly, I think a case could be made for a straight red card for that (one yellow for the faking, a second for time-wasting above and beyond that which is inherent in said fakery).
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
One thing Hawkeye fans fail to consider...
…is that maybe the reason Iowa was gaining “momentum” is that they were taking advantage of the “free timeouts” as well — giving their O-line a breather and coming up with plans of their own.
It’s not like MSU used the injury timeouts to huddle and get a breath while Iowa stayed on the field running gassers and refusing to listen to their coaches.
awesome song choice
I play this song every time I get ready to play football/basketball/ping pong
Sparty on!
@andywittman
BHGP....
I was kind of stunned reading their comments over there. I know I’m ancient, but, Hawk fans were always so….polite. Classy. I don’t know whether to chalk it up to the erosion of civility in public discourse, or the profusion of meth labs in IA. I think this idea that we’re dirty and poor sportsmen actually all flowed from Chris Spielman calling Gholston a dirty player in the Meechigan game, and the media machine has been stuffing its face on it ever since.
Anybody seen injury reports? The stadium fans started booing when Drummond got friendly-fired in the head one play after Robinson got a shoulder stinger. I ran both plays in slo-mo on the DVR, and they were both legit. I thought Gholston was just wrecked from getting double-teamed all game; by the end he could barely get across the line of scrimmage and badly wanted out. Foreman and Dennard both looked pretty badly hurt, and Strayhorn couldn’t put any weight on his foot when he came off.
I guess we’ll see as the week goes on who’s the most banged up, but I doubt there’s much crow that’ll be eaten by the BHGP folks if we have even a couple of these guys out next week. We’ll see if MD holds some of them out against IU, much like with Minn. Done, done, on to the next one—Go Green!
by spartanjed on Nov 13, 2011 3:46 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
nothing but love for msu fans
I was at IA-MSU in 2010 in the visiting fan section and the MSU fans were very nice. I actually felt bad that drove all the way to IC for that beatdown. Good fans, they hung out until the very end. And told me how much nicer Iowa fans were to them than Michigan fans.
A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.
by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 13, 2011 8:01 AM CST up reply actions
Agree
The media and most fans are so unoriginal and biased that one comment like that sticks. UM doesn’t want MSU to have long term football success, it’s all they’ve got, so they’ll do anything to tear our program down.
Iowa has gotten snippy because a few years ago they believed they were the next team on the rise and it hasn’t turned out that way. Add to that their home winning streak against us, including last years beat down, and this was supposed to be another easy win.
And the quick snap attempt was lame and poorly executed.
BTW...
The other thing I kept thinking was, “Iowa’s not running a hurry-up. In a late-game situation, they benefit as much (or more) than us by the delay…figure out strategy, call two or three plays at once, etc.”
That’s what I was thinking, anyway.
Agreed..
the complaints about faking injuries are beyond stupid. There is zero reason to have done it in that game and it didn’t give MSU any benefit over Iowa.
More fanbases are starting to hate on Mark Dantonio
I kind of like it. That means he’s beating them.
And we have a winner
They start out hating you because they think they should be beating. Keep it up for a few years and they’ll hate you but also respect you.
by TheCrestedHelm on Nov 13, 2011 7:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
this Iowa fans like how MSU plays ball
A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.
by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 13, 2011 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Over-hated, under-rated
You’re right, a large part of it is envy. (And it doesn’t help that he looks like Norman “The Green Goblin” Osborne.) Plus the Ann Arbor crowd can’t handle his public and unambiguous desire to kick Maize and Blue ass whenever possible.
Those are understandable. What I can’t figure is how people like Ferentz and Bielema have this rep as geniuses in line for the next big job, but Dantonio gets the better of them head-to-head. He’s one of the ballsiest decision makers in the game, his guys execute, and he somehow thrives in the cleft between two giant programs. The guy’s done an incredible resurrection job, nearly at a Hayden Fry level—albeit without the folksy wisecracks.
Congrats, Sparty!
MSU was long overdue for a convincing beatdown of Iowa. Although your victory comes at the expense of my beloved Hawkeyes, I want anybody but Nebraska representin’ in the BCG so today I’m willing to say Go Green. We’ll see about doing our part to knock off the Huskers in two weeks, too. Winning at Kinnick isn’t easy even when Iowa sucks, so congrats.
A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.
Easy Fella
Before we crown Iowa the champion of this series for the last 15 years, let’s take a closer look. It looks to me like Iowa won 1 @MSU in 2009, and MSU won 1 @Iowa in 2011…and other than that it’s a home team wins series. Yes, the hawkeyes have a few big wins, but 49-3 isn’t a bad win for Sparty either.
2011 @ Iowa – MSU Beatdown, you had a bit of a late run, but we won by more than 2 scores.
2010 @ Iowa – Iowa Beatdown.
2009 @MSU – Iowa 15-13
2008 @MSU – MSU 16-13
2007 @Iowa – Iowa 34-27 in double OT
2005-6 DNP
2004 @Iowa – Iowa 38-16
2003 @MSU – MSU 20-10
2002 @Iowa – Iowa 44-16
2001 @ MSU – MSU 31-28
2000 @ Iowa – Iowa 16-21
1999 @ MSU – MSU 49-3, Ouch.
1997-8 DNP
Geesh
Nobody said Iowa was the champion of the series for the last 15 years, where did that come from?
I said MSU was due for a convincing beatdown. Your record shows that MSU’s last big win over Iowa was in 1999. You know, when Iowa went 1-11? Ferentz’s first year…. winless in Big 10 play.
Next time I’ll just be a jackass and piss in your cheerios instead of offering a genuine congrats to a worthy opponent.
A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.
by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 13, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
True Colors
Thank you for showing your true colors, you were always a jerk and I simply baited you in to showing it.
Actually, you proved his point
and then some. MSU hadn’t won at Kinnick since 1989. I’d say that proves winning at Kinnick isn’t easy.
Iowa hasn’t lost to anyone by more than 10 points since 2007. So yeah, they were long overdue for a beatdown.
I’m disappointed in your response. hawkeyeinstl came offering his hand with grace and class and you smacked him on the back a little too hard.
Disappointed in your reading comprehension
I was pointing out, with the facts, that it’s been a fairly even series for a long time. Yes, they have a few lopsided wins (and using the excuse that they were bad those years we won makes you sound like the whiners at UM), but all they hype about KF and Iowa emerging as the next member of the elite in the Big Ten is just that, hype.
You’ve lost to Iowa State and Minnesota this year.
You started out great in 2009 and chocked one to Northwestern.
Reading comprehension? Self-check time, man!
I said MSU was due for a convincing beatdown of Iowa. Nowhere did I say MSU wasn’t competitive with Iowa. You interpretted my post as saying Iowa was somehow owning MSU, and I said no such thing. When I pointed that out, you called me a jerk, and now you’re ripping into a fellow Spartan fan? Seriously, man, mellow a bit. MSU is in the driver’s seat, and I am on your bandwagon. I want MSU to win out and go to the championship game.
A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.
by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 14, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks!
Appreciate it. I’ll be rooting for Iowa the rest of the way, partly selfishly and partly because I happen to like Iowa. Good luck against Nebraska and in your bowl game.
Hockey sweep over #5 WMU
is like sprinkles on top of a giant green-white sundae.
What a weekend!
Agree, CJC.
We have so much in common with these guys. Lots of the same types of recruits, some scheme similarities. I still have a warm spot in my heart for DC Norm Parker…that Rose Bowl defense in ‘88 was one of the best in MSU history.
I think they lead the all-time series now, something like 24-19. We dominated until the Hayden Fry era, and they’ve evened it out since. It’s a really solid rivalry, though. Go Green!
Not a Dance of Joy performance?
A double digit road win in a stadium where we hadn’t won in 20 years? Agree to disagree. Iowa didn’t get any closer than 13 in the second half and never got their run game going. McNutt was phenomenal, but that was never going to be enough.
This was a statement game for MSU, and they delivered.
BE CONCERNED
Roushar has done a good job in some areas and not so good in one key area…. 3rd down conversations. MSU ranks 103 in FBS approx. 32%. This will bite us in butt. Seriously, how many more times are we going to see a 3rd and 2 pass play or a 3rd and 8 with KC hitting a receiver 4 yards short of the sticks.
That is an interesting stat
I’m looking at who the leaders are in 3rd down conversion: Houston (the leader at 57%). Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State. Some winning teams there. However, 5-5 Northwestern is in the top 10 nationally. 4-6 Navy is #12. 4-5 Utah State is #13. I think there’s a weak correlation between 3rd down conversion rate and win percentage, but I don’t have time to run a regression.
I noticed that MSU is 82nd nationally in first downs per game, so they are getting 1st downs at a higher rate than their 3rd down conversion would indicate. They must be getting a new set of downs on either 1st or 2nd down.
or on 4th down ;-)
Team converted 9/16 4th downs this season (it doesn’t FEEL like they’ve gone for it that often on 4th, does it?) for 56% success rate. And that obviously doesn’t include FG kicks.
Not sure where to find national rankings for 4th down conversions, but I have to assume 56% is an above average success rate.
cfbstats.com
is your go-to source for sortable stats.
MSU is T-41 nationally at 4th down conversion percentage.
Fun fact: Stanford, LSU, and Notre Dame are all 100% on 4th down completion percentage.
Roushar
I’m still down on Roushar. When Iowa was making their attempt at a comeback we were busy flinging it 40 yards down field on first down while sitting on a 6ypc average. Bell was running like Jehuu in the ND game. Roushar is calling the game like HR PuffnStuff. He’s calling plays that have Kirk “Fleet of Foot” Cousins Rolling out—to his left and trying to complete a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 8. Cousins is not a rollout guy. Certainly not a rollout to his left guy. Sure he’ll make the play on occasion, but that is not a high percentage play for him. Wouldn’t you run your best play that gets 8 yards on third and 8?
For every run play in the second half you can take at least 35 seconds off the clock. Even if you go 3 and out, you still can burn two minutes of clock after the punt. RUN THE DAMN BALL.
During the "comeback"
(Which I count starting when MSU went up 34-7 and end with the final Lippett fumble recovery)
MSU ran 19 plays. 10 rushes and 9 passes. 53%-47% run-pass. (I counted the sack as a passing attempt).
MSU gained 21 yards on those 10 rushes, 2.1 YPA.
MSU gained 78 yards on those 9 passes, 8.8 YPA. (Cousins was 6 for 9 during this stretch BTW.)
So basically the run had dried up — either MSU’s O-line was worn out, or Iowa had adjusted to stop the run, or both. So I can’t blame Roushar for throwing it more.
Also
you can take 35+ seconds off the clock with a pass as long as it’s complete (and the runner stays inbounds during the last 2 minutes of the half).
The game clock stops on a first down but restarts on the referee’s signal with a 40 second play clock.
IF IF IF
If you stay in bounds, If it’s complete, If it’s not intercepted and taken the other way. Just put the ball in the hands of your wrecking ball who runs behind a bulldozer. Take your play clock down to nothing and let your world class defense take care of business. With a 24 point lead on the road I want LLoyd ball.
Do you even remember how many games "run-run-run-punt" cost us in the JLS era?
I do not want to see the “prevent offense” in the third quarter unless we’re up 70.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Lol
You just got done saying MSU was sitting on a 6YPC average as evidence that they should have continued running the ball. Then when it’s pointed out to you that the rushing average had dropped to 2.1YPC you say “stats are of [sic] losers”?
Also our “world class defense” gave up 14 straight points to allow the lead to be cut from 34-7 to 34-21 with a whole quarter left to play.
apparently
you’re not familiar with Narduzzi’s words or tongue in cheek comments. (though my hastily written response did contain a typo.)
When you have a two or three score advantage, in the second half, and you run the ball only 1 more time than you passed it, the play calling has every reason to come under question. You run the ball to burn minutes. If you claim to be a team that’s going to “Run the ball” like Dantonio and company have preached this season you have to run more than a 53% clip. Especially given the success that they had had earlier in the game.
[The Nardo reference went right over my head, sorry.]
Running the ball heavily with the lead is fine — as long as you are getting first downs. But like I said, the run had dried up. MSU wasn’t continuing to get 6.1 per carry. And MSU can’t run the ball to burn minutes when they don’t have the ball because they went 3-and-out.
Let’s look at the three MSU possessions after the “comeback” began.
First series: rush 3 yards / pass 4 yards / rush 0 yards / punt for a 3 and out. Total 7 yards, 2:06 off the clock. 67% run.
Second series: rush 11 yards / pass 21 yards / rush 2 yards / pass 8 yards / rush 0 yards / pass 4 yards / pass incomplete / missed field goal. Total 47 yards, 3:30 off the clock. 43% run.
Third series: run 7 yards / run 2 yards / false start -5 yards / incomplete pass / punt. 3 and out. Total 4 yards, 1:48 off the clock. 67% run.
Sorry, but it doesn’t support your argument that they should have run the ball even more. The two run heavy drives were stuffed, and burned a combined total of 24 seconds more than the drive that had more passes than runs.
The key to burning clock isn’t running the ball, but getting first downs. Get them any way you can instead of bashing your head against the wall because it worked earlier. You can ask cwel87 about past performance and future results. Especially when the opponent gets a vote.
Risks
The risks involved in throwing the ball make it at best dangerous and at worst suicidal. My argument is that on the road, in a place you haven’t won since Tony Mandrich was on the field, with a 3 score lead, and a good defense the clock is a much bigger enemy than is Iowa. If you disagree with that, then by all means John L. Whip-it around. I’m taking the conservative approach and putting it in Bell’s hands. Maybe the run wasn’t working like it was in the first half, but the clock still runs guaranteed.
Check out Miami of Ohio's QB ratings
Treadwell’s SO QB’s numbers are slightly better than KC’s (excluding the Int’s). Roushar obviously can not match Treadwell’s OC stats being it his first crack at OC in 6 years or so.
Your post regarding the three MSU series that relied on the run omitted a key fact, that Baker was the RB in 2 of 3 those series.
Actually Bell was the RB on 2 of those 3 drives I mentioned.
Bell had rushes of 0, 5, 3, and 0. 8 yards on 4 carries, 2.0ypc.
Baker had rushes of 11, 2, and 0. 13 yards on 3 carries, 4.33ypc.
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