Wisconsin 42, Michigan State 39 -- The Melting Point of Wax
by Pete Rossman on Dec 5, 2011 9:31 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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I've think I've recovered enough where I can recap this game. Let's start from my decision to go to the Big Ten Championship Game.
FRIDAY NIGHT, 9 PM, PETE'S APARTMENT.
My decision is final -- I'm going. I start e-mailing friends to get tickets, and am checking hotels around the area. Surprisingly, there's a Super 8 about 12 miles away from Lucas Oil that has room. That sounds good enough for me.
FRIDAY NIGHT, 10:30 PM.
My friend Jim calls. He has an extra ticket in the MSU section plus a hotel that's only five miles away from Lucas Oil. RAWK, and I cancel the previous reservation.
SATURDAY, 11 AM.
Jim picks me up, and we head down from Lansing to Indianapolis. The four-hour drive is punctuated by banter that sounds similar in hundreds of other cars traveling down I-69: MSU's defense has to be better with Gholston and with Peter Konz possibly out, right? How hard can it be to beat a team twice (SPOILER ALERT: difficult)?
SATURDAY, 3:15 PM -- THE WYNDHAM WEST HOTEL, INDIANAPOLIS
We're here! We throw our crap in our room, and grab the first shuttle to downtown Indy.
SATURDAY, 4:00 PM -- CORNER OF SOUTH AND WEST, INDIANAPOLIS
We're downtown! We're dropped off by Lucas Oil and head a couple blocks down to find some friends. This is the first time both of us have seen Lucas Oil, and we agree -- it looks fantastic.
SATURDAY, 4:00-7:30 PM -- ASSORTED BARS, INDIANAPOLIS
We're drinking! Since this is supposed to be a football recap, I'll spare you the details except this -- Wisconsin fans were easily outnumbered by at least a 2 to 1 ratio by State fans.
SATURDAY, 8:00 PM -- LUCAS OIL STADIUM, SECTION 424, ROW 10
Our seats are at the very top of the second deck behind the "Michigan State" end zone, and the seats are very nice. Even nicer, the section is right next to the men's room. We arrive as Wisconsin's band is finishing up their pre-game show, and right as Michigan State's band is starting theirs. I want to comment on this, but I'm afraid I had to go to the bathroom. Sorry. It was a nice touch for both bands to perform the national anthem together.
THE COIN FLIP
Wisconsin wins it, and they want the ball. Great! I like Michigan State getting the ball to start the 2nd half, and it's going to be a matchup of strengths. Digging it.
WISCONSIN 7, MICHIGAN STATE 0
Not digging it. Montee Ball drags the Badgers by his staunch hindquarters down the field. The run is established, and Russell Wilson completes three passes to get Wisconsin into the end zone. That's all right, we still got this.
WISCONSIN 7, MICHIGAN STATE 7
A dominating start on the ground to establish the offense. Le'Veon Bell does most of the work to get MSU into the end zone, and Edwin Baker finishes it off on a 9-yard outside run.
WISCONSIN 14, MICHIGAN STATE 7
So this is how it's going to go? Montee Ball does it all again, including completing a third-down halfback pass to a streaking Wilson on the outside. And when I mean "does it all", I mean he touched the ball every time save one incomplete pass on an eight-play, 60 yard drive. That's OK, Michigan State has the kickoff --
WISCONSIN 21, MICHIGAN STATE 7
Nick Hill fumble on the return, two Ball runs, touchdown. That score happened that fast in real life as well.
WISCONSIN 21, MICHIGAN STATE 14
It's the start of the Kirk and B.J. show, as Cousins completes a 30-yard pass to Cunningham for the second score. I'm trying to remember how this happened, but I can't. That's how crazy balls this game was.
MICHIGAN STATE 22, WISCONSIN 21
Bulletpointing the next few thoughts:
- Yay for stopping Ball and pressuring Wilson! It's a three and out.
- Cousins picks his way down to the red zone. That throw to Nichol's going to be a bit short and...WHAAAAA?!??11!!! The lateral to B.J.! Touchdo --
- DOUBLE WHAAA?!!!?? Holder Brad Sonntag runs into the end zone for the two point conversion! MSU has their first lead, and WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW.
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT:
Wisconsin three-and-out featuring a Russell Wilson sack, Cousins throwing into double coverage into an interception, another Wisconsin three-and-out.
MICHIGAN STATE 29, WISCONSIN 21
The Spartans are exploiting Wisconsin's lack of speed on the outside via Keshawn Martin, and is it ever working. MSU's into the red zone again, and a Le'Veon Bell run gets Michigan State up 8.
HALFTIME
Another Wisconsin three-and-out, and MSU fails to get a field goal from 51 yards. I rush to the bathroom, and manage to catch the MSU halftime show. Good marching, but I forget what the songs are.
THE THIRD QUARTER, A BLUR
I remember Wisconsin scoring. I remember Cousins completing a short pass to Cunningham and B.J. doing the rest of the work for a score. I am holding up four fingers; it is the fourth quarter, I am holding up four fingers.
MICHIGAN STATE 36, WISCONSIN 28 -- START OF THE FOURTH QUARTER
Wisconsin's scored again. I forget how. I do remember the Badgers going for the 2-point conversion and missing it, and laughing at Bret Bielema.
MICHIGAN STATE 36, WISCONSIN 34
Some time passes. MSU gets close to another pass down, but Martin can't quite reel in a third and goal pass. Conroy nails the field goal.
MICHIGAN STATE 39, WISCONSIN 34
Stuff happens.
FOURTH AND LONG FOR WISCONSIN, MIDFIELDISH
Wilson's flushed out of the pocket. Max Bullough gets up front, jumps to deflect the pass, but it's over his hands. Wilson's thrown across the field into double coverage...and it's caught inside the 10. Unbelievable. Ball takes it from there. 2-point conversion is good. Of course.
WISCONSIN 42, MICHIGAN STATE 39
A short drive from MSU is nearly saved by an amazing catch by Martin. It was third and nine, and I thought Cousins had enough room to run for a first down. Punt. MSU uses its last two timeouts (the other was used in the third, I forget on what) to stop Wisconsin. They are successful. Wisconsin will punt.
W 4-3 W26 98-Nortman, Brad punt 41 yards to the MSU33, 82-Martin, Keshawn return to
the WIS3, out-of-bounds (98-Nortman, Brad), PENALTY MSU roughing the
kicker (9-Lewis, Isaiah) 5 yards to the WIS31, 1ST DOWN WIS, NO
PLAY.
I remember MSU getting pressure. I remember the punter falling. I know it's over.
The replay would show Lewis touched the Badger punter. Isaiah Lewis, playmaker extraordinare including the pick-six that secured the Michigan game, has flown too close to the sun, and there is falling. Three knees by Wisconsin.
FINAL SCORE -- WISCONSIN 42, MICHIGAN STATE 39
Streamers are erupting across Lucas Oil while Jim and I are heading for the exits. There's a long line for the escalators.
I'm out of the stadium. A vendor's advertising Michigan State gear half off. Some State fans are sad, silent, and entering their hotels, while others are greeting their friends. Jim and I walk a couple blocks to find our cab. A Wisconsin fans yells "Have fun at the Capital One Bowl!" And I remember being pissed and thinking "The Capital One Bowl sounds pretty good over the Insight right now."
More walking to find a cab. A police officer is saying to passerby that they can find cabs on Meridian street. Finally a cab arrives, and we're back to our hotel.
THE WYNDHAM HOTEL SPORTS BAR, 1:30 AM.
I'm sitting with Jim, and I'm starting to feel a bit better. I have a Fat Tire, while a Wisconsin fan drops a 50 on the bar (I remember this because who uses Grants anymore?). He's a stout man with a pair of glasses split down the middle around his neck. He asks me:
"What beer's lighter than a Fat Tire?"
I'm drinking a Fat Tire because they're not available in Michigan (hint), so I say, "Bud and Miller Light of course. As well as Stella."
"Well, I'll have a Stella then. Great game tonight." He's sincere, and it's easy to be magnanimous when your team is the victor, but it's a pleasant time.
There's a few Wisconsin fans on the other side of the bar. We reminisce about the game, and I ask them why their offensive coordinator backed off of running Ball when it was so effective earlier in the game (note: Ball ran 27 times for 137 yards. For whatever reason, it seemed like much less at the time). They agreed, and said they were nervous at halftime. There's a distraught Spartan fan sitting to Jim's left. I remind him that the old days -- the days of heartbreaking losses and no bowls at all -- were much worse. It's 2:30 AM. It's bedtime.
SUNDAY 10 AM.
Headed home. I manage to squeeze off a tweet:
A few minutes later, I get a tweet back:
I reflect. The outcome of the game was heartbreaking. However, seeing friends I hadn't seen in a while, feeling a part of a Spartan fan base playing tug-of-war with a Wisconsin fan base both screaming their heads off, and the atmosphere...those are moments I'll always remember
SUNDAY, 7ISH
Michigan State's in the Outback Bowl, Michigan's in the Sugar. Many MSU fans are pissed, but me, I've long accepted that that's college football. On the macro level, it's a revenue stream for the NCAA and bowls to exploit fans. It's an ugly, ugly business.
On the micro level however, it's tailgates. It's 85 degree noon games the last Saturday in August. It's campus on a sunny day. It's the fight song in Spartan Stadium. It's the improbable comeback to pull off an impossible win, and it's the collapse that erases your mind. I know that Michigan State is going to get screwed by the current system at every turn.
I'll never stop being a college football fan. The good moments far outweigh the bad, and even in moments as heartbreaking as Saturday night, I still got to high five a lot of Spartans, and met a lot of good people -- a couple crappy Wisconsin fans won't mar the tens of other ones I met. Our wax wings took us to new heights, and the fall was devastating when they melted. However, the view was incredible.
JANUARY 2ND, 1 PM
The Outback Bowl. We may as well win the damn thing.
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Still not over it
I mean, I feel awful for the players and coaches. They truly dominated the final three quarters, but a couple of miscues on Wilson’s long heaves and the punter thing were the difference. Helluva game, but that image of Keyshawn crying right at the end is etched into my memory. He deserved to go to the Rose Bowl, as did the rest of the team.
Reading that Wisconsin punter’s arrogant comments and Bielema’s immature digs makes me bitter. The punter did what any punter is taught to do – no issues, blame, or excuses there. It simply happened and it’s the right call. But I still hate that guy.
Nice write up
Watching at home with a case of beer, a pot of homemade chili, and a couple of fellow B1G fans, I was struck by how evenly matched MSU and UW were. The two matchups this year were just great, great games, even from (especially from?) a non-partisan standpoint. The way in which the first half of the CG mirrored the first half of the game in EL. The way in which the special teams scores were reversed—MSU with the TD on a blocked punt the first time around, UW with the TD almost immediately after the fumble the second time around. And the reversal of the hail mary plays, which almost everyone has noted. It was as though these two teams were reliving one eternal football game, waiting to see what a roll of the dice would reveal.
And then the narrative had to have a completely unsatisfying ending, determined by a trivial penalty. Ugh. Talk about deus ex machina. But life isn’t a storybook—no reason to expect our football games to be either.
The future is bright. Put the BCS out of mind—it isn’t an honor worth having. MD needs a bowl win now, and this team has everything it needs to get it.
I am an alumnus and unabashed fan of MSU, but upon further review....
maybe we shouldn’t feel so ripped off that we are in the Outback bowl and that other team is in the Sugar bowl. There are myriad ways you can analyze the fully body of work that an FBS football team creates over a season. I plan to construct and look at several others, but below is the summary of Relative Team Performance: Average Final BCS ranking of Outback and Sugar bowl participant opponents – wins and losses. As the title implies, only FBS games are counted (in Virginia Tech’s case, the Miami game was excluded as Miami, like USC, is not BCS ranked this year). Obviously margin of victory and home/away impacts are not factored in the figures below.
I used the full BCS ranking of teams published yesterday (teams 1 – 118).
Outback Bowl
MSU – Average BCS ranking of opponents defeated: 67.78 (9 wins vs BCS ranked teams)
UGA – Average BCS ranking of opponents defeated: 56.89 (9 wins vs BCS ranked teams)
MSU – Average BCS ranking of opponents lost to: 24.00 (Sum of BCS ranking all 3 losses: 72)
UGA – Average BCS ranking of opponents lost to: 5.67 (Sum of BCS ranking all 3 losses: 17.00)
Sugar Bowl
other team – Average BCS ranking of opponents defeated: 60.7 (10 wins vs BCS ranked teams)
VT – Average BCS ranking of opponents defeated: 59.33 (9 wins vs BCS ranked teams)
other team – Average BCS ranking of opponents lost to: 31.50 (Sum of BCS ranking all 2 losses: 63)
VT – Average BCS ranking of opponents lost to: 15.00 (sum of BCS ranking all 2 losses: 30)
MSU’s victories over Florida Atlantic (#117), CMU (#105), and Indian (#112) really hurt the average BCS ranking of the folks we beat. I included the average of teams lost to, and the sum of BCS rankings of teams lost to in an attempt to account for MSU’s 3 losses compared to UGA’s 3 losses, and the 2 losses for VT, and the other team.
I still feel like we got screwed because I value our victory over the other team and our participation in the CCG more than the relative conclusions from the numbers above.
Glad to hear people giving positive vibes but....
It’s still all junk to me. That game was amazing, but the call at the end decides it. And that’s ALWAYS the wrong result. The saying goes “Let them play” — not allow the refs to decide. The bowl game set up was just the final humiliation.
Hate to say it — but who cares who wins this shit steakhouse bowl? (UGA will btw) And what do we get next year? 8 wins if we’re lucky. The whole season seems like a loss.
Who cares?
I care. It’s always better for the seniors to end their careers with a win rather than a loss, and MSU’s first bowl win in a decade would be an excellent feather in the cap of a very, very good season.
And 8 wins? I think you’re being a bit pessimistic. Wisconsin and Michigan will be tough road games, but all the other hard games (Boise, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Nebraska, Iowa) will be at home, and there should be some easy wins as well in there.
by Pete Rossman on Dec 5, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn straight
Wins each season under MD: 7, 9, 6, 11, 10(+)
MSU has won an average of 8-9 games per season under MD. And this includes the transition seasons from the JLS era.
Make no mistake: MSU football is a serious player in the B1G. Championships may not happen every year, but 8-9 wins is the new normal.
24 hour rulei
I always here avout the 24 hour rule – as in, the team gets 24 hours to celebrate a victory, or lament a loss, before moving on to focus on the upcoming game.
Its been 48 hours, and we’re not actually on the team. I say its time to move forward and focus on UGA.
by MSUDersh on Dec 5, 2011 10:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Improvement in team depth from past years is substantial!
All teams need to reload and yes we will really miss a great 5th year qb, 3 receivers, TEs x 2
and our DTs. One of the more encouraging things though is our 2 deep. There has been exceptional improvement in the last 2-3 years in a second stringer being able to come in and perform well.
Think of all the years when we would have late Oct, early Nov injuries and just have a giant hole at that position, someone who was not anywhere close to the injured player in terms of abliity and execution. For example, when Dennard injured his ankle, Lippett really rose to quickly being able to cover some difficult receivers, have impressive pass break ups (almost picced a few). In past regimes, M. White would have been our 3rd best corner. No disrespect to a 5th year senior who started as a walk on and managed to commit, work hard and finish when his 2 more highly recruited brothers flamed out both here and at u of M, but there was a noticeable difference when he had to come in for every down in an earlier season game (I think Notre Dame). White is a good special teams and situational back player but in past years, he would have been our back up.
Also, look at Allen and Bullough. We were replacing 2 four-year starters at LB! They have both had fantastic season (not just adequate). We will miss T. Robinson but Jones and Drummond have gotten some experience this year and will likely improve even more before next fall. With Hoover coming back, wonder if D. Drone might be able to move inside and become a Jerel Worthy type speed inside player. Pickelman has had such an outstanding season, making the most of all the double teams Worthy drew and Strayhorn has been really solid too. So our hardest position to fill will likely be DT though I wish Fowler had been healthy this year because we are losing 3 really good receivers. Look though at Marcus Rush and the phenomenal year he has had. Hopefully we have a few more pleasant surprise coming from the redshirt freshmen and sophmores/juniors next year.
Lastly, I really believe that the fact that MD is a defensive coach by nature makes a huge difference. THink of JLS, every good athlete that there was any question of position, went to offense.
MD moves players from LB to DL, DE to DT, defense to FB, OL, TE. He (and the coaching staff) are moving players to positions where they can be successful. They won’t keep a player on defense in the 2 deep who doesn’t have the potential speed, skill to be able to execute that position. I also think that
makes him value and recruit harder Defensive standouts. Look at Rich Rod, his defense was absolutely not as important to him as his offense and look how low their defense fell.
by wifeofaspartan on Dec 6, 2011 7:15 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed,
Last chance to play to for a spot in a Rose Bowl (without help) was November 1987. Last chance before that was November 1965. This was a great team, with an unusual amount of talent on the roster, and they were coached up to the maximum and they got a lot of breaks and they executed nearly flawlessly. And here we are. This was our chance, and we weren’t good enough.
Ignoring a legitimate penalty is "the refs deciding the game" just as much as calling a wrong one.
I have always, always, always argued for consistency in the refereeing above all else. If it’s against the rules, it’s against the rules – you don’t get to break them just because it’s the last two minutes.
Did the Wisconsin punter embellish it a bit? Yes. Was it a legitimate penalty anyway? Yes. If it were 4th and 7 and they called roughing the kicker on that, I’d be furious. But it was running into the kicker.
I don’t think Georgia is much better than we are. I’m not sure they’re any better than we are; my gut feeling is tossup to slight edge MSU. And we are certainly not in any sort of position to bitch about a 10-win season, especially when most of us were predicting 8 to start this one.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
by SpartanDan on Dec 5, 2011 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah
How many people on here were begging for consistency in rules calling in the ’10 final four game with Butler? If you complained about Howard fouling DayDay you cannot turn around and complain that the rule should be ignored now.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
The ending sucked, no doubt.
BUT, if we make a couple plays earlier in the game, our team isn’t in a position to let the refs decide it. There were so many plays where you can look back and say “if only….” – that is the most frustrating thing about this game.
Let’s go Green- beat Georgia!
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
8 wins?
Le’veon and Baker are back. Most of the O-Line is back. The days of replacing Charles Rogers with Terry Love are gone. Burbidge, Caesar, Lippettt, Fowler and Kings are on the way to ease the loss of BJ, Nichol and Keyshawn. Maxwell looks to be a Cousins clone. And defesively this team returns everything except Worthy (probably) and Trenton Robinson. Our D Line will be sick, our linebackers are stout and the defensive backfield is a big strength. All of the specialists return. Why can’t this team win 10 again next year? Knock off Boise St in the first game and lets win 10.
If Lippett is moving to offense and Mitchell White is gone
who is our #3 CB next year?
The last thing I want to do is diminish their efforts. Their efforts were Herculean -and that’s the problem. They played their hearts out all year. It would be one thing if we thought they weren’t trying; then you could see how they could do better. I don’t see how this team could have done any better - by any reasonable standard, they were awesome. Yet, by the only standard by which they will be judged, they didn’t get it done.
I’m not blaming them — I just don’t know what to tell them. Recruit better? They’re obviously trying to, but we aren’t winning any more battles than we used to. Keep finding diamonds in the rough? Harder than it looks. Coach them up better? Dantonio does a great job with that already. Execute better? Again, with basically one exception, they executed as well as any group of 18-22 year-olds can be expected to execute. So, where do they go from here? It’s hard to see how we can improve, and yet, we have to improve.
I like the strikethroughs......
And that’s kind of my point. They play out of their skulls. They play an amazing game against Wisconsin. Cousins….who just is a model kid….played a superb game. And for what? A loss and a shit bowl. And next year? It gets worse. They do everything they should……and I’m sorry to sound pessimistic…..8 wins max next year. Maxwell has potential but he’s a kid. We’ll look like Iowa did this year.
Plus, UGA really is a good team. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they lose the bowl. Crap steakhouse blooming onion one that it is. Meanwhile, Michigan will of course beat a crap VT team and everybody will rejoice that big blue is back.
Sigh
You guys are the nattering nabobs of negativity.
MSU football is in a better place right now than it has been in 40 years. This program will continue to compete at the highest levels for the foreseeable future.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Agreed.
This team is headed in the right direction and for stability. We replace great players with great players. BJ grew into being one of the all time greats, as did Cousins but they are not irreplaceable. Especially BJ. These two seasons were not our ‘window’. They were the cracked door opening. And Dantonio kicked the thing off its hinges.
Think of the great recruting classes that are piling up. Veteran O and D line next year. Veteran linebackers. Veteran corners. Veteran kickers. The most veteran tandem of RBs in the country. QB and WR are the question marks. Maxwell has been watching Cousins for 3 years, he’s ready to take over. The wideouts are dripping with talent.
Its good to be green, as always.
by CoachGreen1 on Dec 6, 2011 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"And Dantonio kicked the thing off it's hinges"
This X100
Dantonio has reset expectations for this program. I’m still disappointed about Saturday. But still excited about the future.
by trivialstuff16 on Dec 6, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
Relax Flying J. MAxwell has been at MSU for two years now. HE is not a kid.
Ricardo Effendi folks and some other guys at OTE predicted a 6-6 season and a 7 win season for MSU this year. MAX!!
We have 7 games at home and 1 at Central. That itself is 8 games.
Road Games at Wisc, UM, Minnesota and Indiana.
I am looking at another 9-10 games next year.
REMEMBER THIS FOLKS: MARK IT DOWN. The legends title will come down to MSU-UM at AA.
ALSO ANDREW MAXWELL will be a stud for MSU.
by spartynation on Dec 6, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
I'm loving the Maxwell love
He was a top 10 pro style qb recruit in HS, and will be in his fourth year with the progam when he takes the field against Boise next Labor Day weekend (in what is, btw, an awesome scheduling job by Hollis – Friday night into the long weekend, we’ll be the only game on, and people can go after the game & still get up north to enjoy two + full days of late summer by the lake).
Also, two of the biggest things that can help a new QB are solid o-line play, and a strong running game. We return all three of our stud RBs, plus Nick Hill, as well as have incoming frosh Nick Tompkins from GA and MacGarrett Kings, Jr., from FL (though he likely will end up as a slot receiver behind Bennie Fowler, Jr.). The O-line returns 4 fo 5 starters, and 5 of 6 second stringers.
I look forward to a return to Pound Green Pound next season, starting with Boise. Dantonio is building a program here, and next year will be the testament to that.
Consider this...
MSU lost 4 projected OL starters to injury this year (Treadwell, Conway, Barrent, Burkland). How many other teams could lose 4 of 5 starters and still contend for a Big 10 title?
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Boise will be great exposure as long as we don't get clobbered.
Overall though, I’m with the optimists here. I’ve lived through too many disappointing seasons to get too upset at back-to-back 10 win campaigns and it definitely seems like Dantonio is building something permanent here. Next year, a lot rides on Maxwell, but if we do have to bring in a new QB, we are doing it in about the best possible way. Great running game, vet O-line and dominant defense. Plus he’ll have a chance to work up his own chemistry with all the new WRs.
I think 8 wins is the minimum for next year and if Maxwell works out well we could be right back in the B1G champ game looking for that Rose Bowl bid.
I think maybe you underestimate what a monumental job it is to have back to back seasons like the last two at Michigan State. MSU football has been at best mediocre for decades, man. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Dantonio’s got this program headed in the right direction (ignorant claims of thuggery by other fanbases notwithstanding) but we’re not an elite program yet, and I think we all need to step back and realize that. Headed that way, absolutely, but there? No.
That said, I think it says a lot about where we are as a program that people start having these unrealistic expectations. Reminds me a little bit of basketball.
I think I’m correctly estimating what a monumental job Dantonio has done. Which is why don’t see how he improves on it. It has to start with better recruiting, and we just aren’t winning that battle. I have every faith that Dantonio can keep finding overlooked players who overachieve. There just aren’t enough of them to get it done — in fact, you need to find players like that and to land blue-chips consistently in order to compete at the highest level.
I know Rome wasn’t built in a day. But, consider that only two programs have become national powers from scratch in recent years — Oregon and Oklahoma State. The lesson from that would seem to be that Rome can’t built at all without somewhere north of 300 million dollars from some crazy benefactor. That’s the cost of offsetting the power programs’ 30-40 year head starts in developing the network of former players, high school coaches, middle-men, camp organizers, etc. that leads to recruiting wins.
But Coach D HAS been getting those recruiting wins,
Especially on D.
Two seasons ago, Gholston, the #1 defensive player in MI, committed to MSU.
Isaiah Lewis was the top defensive player in Indiana his senior season in HS, and came in the same class. In the same class, Darqueze Denard was rated top defensive back in GA, and chose MSU over all the SEC schools.
Last season, Lawrence Thomas was the #1 overall player in MI, and he got redshirted due to so much LB depth. Taiwan Jones, who is same class but played this season, was #2 LB in MI behind LT.
Upcoming season he has Se’Veon Pittman, one of the top defensive players in Ohio, coming in. The next Bullough coming in is a stud, too (though the Bulloughs are an MSU legacy family, so Coach D doesn’t get all the credit for them).
So while we’ve seen some amazing development from overlooked 2* D recruits, Greg Jones & Trenton Robinson as the prime examples, we now get to see how Coach D handles the more highly rated players.
Remember, he was the D coordinator at tOSU in their title year, and from what I understand, was the lead recruiter then, too.
Lastly, not all incoming recruits need to be the cream of the crop – in the ultimate team sport, you can assemble the best team without having to always rely on having the best parts.
The thing...
…to remember is that Dantonio is better at player evaluation than Rivals is.
Things in recruiting that were unthinkable before Dantonio:
• Top rated player in the state goes Green three years in a row. (Gholston, Thomas, Burbidge)
• Beating OSU for a Plan A Ohio kid (Pittman)
We’re always going to a face a challenge with a program that has the pomp and circumstance of U of M sharing our home state and Dantonio has done a good job of recruiting with that in mind, by spreading out and trying to get players from around the midwest because we aren’t ever going to own Michigan the way other big time programs own their states.
by witless chum on Dec 7, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
we aren’t ever going to own Michigan the way other big time programs own their states
Tell that to Tom Izzo. Remember the state of MSU vs. UM recruiting when he came aboard.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Izzo certainly...
…did great work there, but basketball is different than football, I think, because convincing one kid can make such a huge difference in basketball. Also, I doubt U of M football has an Ed Martin type waiting to dynamite the program.
by witless chum on Dec 7, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
All you can...
…say is keep working toward playing for championships in December. Maybe we’ll have a rematch versus Dayne Crist and the Badgers next year?
And you can say that’s life. Hard work and talent gives you a chance at succeeding at whatever, but doesn’t guarantee it. Sometimes it just isn’t in the cards and things don’t go your way. I’m a nerd, so I was reading an old Star Wars tie-in novel last nightand they had Han using the phrase “hits off the cosmic deck.” The people who led the American Revolution would talk about “divine providence.” It’s all ways of quantifying the unquantifiable.
And sometimes certain people get handed things based just on who they are, not what they’ve done. But that’s life, too.
How Coaches in the B1G (and Mark Richt) voted in the last poll:
Bret Bielema (Wisconsin):
Wisconsin: 6; Michigan: 9; Michigan State: 15. With TCU, Va Tech, Clemson, Kansas State and South Carolina (no particular order) between UofM and MSU
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State):
Wisconsin: 8; Michigan State: 12; Michigan: 13.
Brady Hoke (Michigan):
Wisconsin: 8; Michigan: 11; Michigan State: 13.
Bo Pelini (Nebraska):
Wisconsin: 6; Michigan State: 10; Michigan: 11.
Mark Richt (Georgia):
Wisconsin: 9; Michigan State 11; Michigan: 12.
Kevin Wilson (Indiana):
Wisconsin: 8; Michigan: 11; Michigan State: 14.
Ron Zook (Illinois):
Wisconsin: 6; Michigan: 9; Michigan State: 11.
My initial thoughts are: First, what the hell Bret? I understand being so high on your team and even to an extent ranking UofM higher than most due to them being B1G and all, but really, you not only have UofM ranked higher than MSU (6 spots for that, are you kidding me), but you have MSU ranked 15!? The two teams playing in a 1-1 series where the average margin of victory was 4.5 and the games ended on unlucky plays warrants ranking bucky 9 spots higher than sparty? Second, I think Coaches Pelini, Hoke, Dantonio and Richt give very fair rankings; Hoke would obviously rank UofM higher. Interesting that the only coach with a vote who played both MSU and UofM (Pelini, Nebraska) ranked MSU higher. It seems Richt has decently high respects for MSU so it leads me to think that there isn’t a chance Georgia takes this game lightly. Kevin Wilson’s ballot is a joke. Indiana lost 59-7 to Wisconsin at Camp Randall and lost 55-3 at MSU. You really think Wisconsin is that much better than MSU and that UofM is that much better as well? And Ron Zook, well you’re not a coach anymore do who cares what you think.
by west coast spartan on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 PM CST reply actions
Wow....
…I didn’t realize at the time that Indiana deserved to have us really run up the score on them.
Chris Peterson (Boise coach) had a comment last night...
“I probably shouldn’t have a vote”
He’s right – why the hell do the coaches get votes in this whole thing, when they all have decided agendas in how things play out. Not to mention that they probably never see any games other than ones involving the teams they play. The system is ridiculous (and Bielema is a fracking idiot)
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
I think I'm over it...
But when trying to sleep, I still see the hail mary… unbelievable.
While the loss is crippling, we got a pretty decent bowl game against a pretty decent opponent that will be a pretty good measuring stick. The loss sucks, but this team isn’t going anywhere. This isn’t the Notre Dame game from 04 where the team totally fell apart and we knew they sucked anyway. It’s a new team and one that is confident. And also a fanbase that is confident.
Matchups trump bowl names
What’s more appealing right now, UGA/MSU or VT/UM? Forget about the bowl name or location or date. Which matchup is more intriguing? The BCS is a sham, but it’s only worth getting worked up about if you’re screwed out of the “NCG”. The only people who will be glued to their sets for the Sugar Bowl will be those schools’ fans. That game’s ratings will suck because outside those fanbases, no one cares. People will actually tune in to GA/MSU since both teams were in at the top of their conferences, both had impressive showings throughout much of the season, and both actually played real competition.
Clemson/WVU? Please. Bama/LSU has the potential to be a good game if the right adjustments are made, but will likely be another mind-numbing four hours. As much as it stings to watch jackhole Bret hur-hur-hur around the sidelines, the Rose Bowl should be intriguing, as will OKST/Stanford, especially with axes to be ground.
But ultimately, there are a lot of crap bowl matchups out there under marquee names. There are far more interesting and entertaining matchups under lesser-viewed names, and we’re in one of the best.
Tonight's going to be a good night.
RE: the ratings
I think you make a great point – people who are into football, will watch the Outback Bowl. Here’s a telling tweet I saw this morning from Sean Callihan (he runs the UNL Huskers blog for Rivals, and does TV too):
The Big Ten championship game had 7.08 million views compared to 5.78 that watched Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State – bit.ly/s80HHp
My theory on the bowl selection process is similar to my theory on “American Idol” – that is, the producers aim to get the casual fan tuning in, the one who otherwise won’t watch.
TV producers know that hardcore fans like us will most likely watch the bowl games, just like they know hardcore Idol fans like my wife will tune in to (or DVR) every show. In order to get the casual fan watching, Idol has to do things that are controversial, like keeping that Sanjaya guy around, or have a ton of hot chicks.
Likewise, when making bowl selections, TV is looking for names that they believe will get people who otherwise don’t have any rooting interest in the game, and who aren’t sports junkies that will watch anyway, to tune in. Personally, I feel that they could have had that in the Splenda Bowl (bc neither team has any substance) had they chosen Baylor over VT – it would be like last season’s U-M vs. Illini game, ie, two sugar high 12 year olds playing EA Sports NCAA FB and running crazy with the QB every play.
But back to my original point, I feel that people will recognize the chance for good football, and tune in. Nobody at all nationally cares about VT, and the Hokies don’t exactly have a massive fanbase. Sure, M is a name & has a lot of alums & psuedo-alum fans, but I don’t necesarily believe they have the national cache right now to draw in the casual viewer.
The biggest drawback our game will have is that it’s going against the Urban Bowl, which means we have another B1G/SEC matchup at the exact same time, and that will draw eyeballs from our game. Our game has better teams, but that game has the storyline. Not to mention that also the CapOne Bowl is another B1G/SEC matchup in the exact same timeslot.
And looking a little further, I see that PSU is taking on Houston in the Tickey City Bowl kicking off an hour before our game.
All four of those games are on the WWL conglomerate – we’re on ABC, CapOne on ESPN, Gator on ESPN2, and Ticket City on ESPNu. The least sexy matchup starts at noon, the rest at one.
I’m not a marketing or communications guy, but doesn’t it seem like ESPN is shooting itself in the foot with that?? Four bowls, three are B1G/SEC matchups, and the fourth has another B1G team, all at the same time. Wouldn’t it make more sense to spread those out?
Personally, I would watch all four of those games, but because MSU is one of them, I’ll be watching it with very occasional flipping. And I’m willing to bet that there are big fanbases at each of these schools that will be doing the same as I am.
All good points that hold water
The biggest drawback our game will have is that it’s going against the Urban Bowl, which means we have another B1G/SEC matchup at the exact same time, and that will draw eyeballs from our game. Our game has better teams, but that game has the storyline.
I agree that this game will draw some viewers because of the subplot, but when Florida starts to take over against a lousy OSU team, and the Meyer novelty wears off, people will look for a real game.
Tonight's going to be a good night.
by Spartalytical on Dec 6, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm actually surprised that OU/OSU drew that many eyeballs.
I would’ve expected the B1G game to outdraw them at least 2 to 1.
Of course, we were on Fox, so we didn’t have the ABC/ESPN Noise Machine drumming up hype for us all week.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Pain
My initial reaction on Saturday night got me called a troll and got me shouted down. I (8 beers in) felt like Coach D quit on his team by punting on the fourth and eight, I so wanted to go for it. I had faith in our defense, but I was ready to see us do the non-conservative thing and make sure we went down swinging. It would be impossible to argue that the program is in much better shape than with the previous two coaches, but I am weary of the conservative nature of our offense. There have been key moments (fake FG vs. Notre Dame and fake punt vs. Northwestern both in 2010) that have given Dantonio the reputation if a riverboat gambler, but the truth is he sits on leads when the game is too close and often puts the offense in bad positions by being in 3rd and long so much (like the Nebraska game).
I’m not as angry about Michigan getting the BCS bowl, we knew those were the stakes. Being penalized for playing in the championship game is part of the corrupt college football landscape. I can empathize with our fans who this makes angry, but the real mystery to me is the amount of time Michigan fans have spent trying to justify it. They have a much more storied tradition, and if they really do look at us as ‘little brother’, why would it matter to them if we feel ripped off? The fact that they aren’t more arrogant about this, to me, shows how worried they are. I think they also know, deep down inside, who the second best team in the Big 10 was this year, and that bothers them. In a transparent college football landscape, the second best team from a conference should play in the second best bowl.
As far as coaches voting in the poll, it’s just silly. People are letting Saban off the hook by saying he’s not the one voting- that i don’t buy. He’s a weasel and has always held a grudge against MSU since he left feeling under-appreciated.
The only times I can remember feeling this crushed by a loss was the 2009 title game, but we should have know that was coming (thanks, Joe Rexrode for picking MSU that night and giving me a glimmer of hope). The loss to Butler on the lack of a foul call was also hard, but with Kalin out that whole run was gravy.
I’d love to say I’ve learned my lesson about being pessimistic when it comes to Spartan sports, but the lesson I’ve learned is not to post it on message boards. Reacting that way is a defense mechanism. I would have thought most people could understand that everyone deals with this pain differently, but that is not the case.
Let’s beat Georgia, and watch this young group of Spartan Basketballers continue to improve- thankful we’ve had it pretty good for the last couple years, with the possibility of better times with some stability.
On Saban....
I honestly don’t think he holds a grudge against MSU. When the school was going through the hiring process to find Dantonio, Saban was one of the people they consulted for advice on the search.
While I’m sure Saban enjoyed curb-stomping the Spartans in Orlando last year, I don’t think he has it out for State the way everyone thinks.
However, I still think Saban may very well be the spawn of Satan.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
very true
Remember MSU officials did reach out to Saban for advice after JLS. He highly recommended Dantonio.
throw $$$ at him he jumps somewhere else. He is the college football version of Larry Brown. Nomad gypsy looking for more $$$$ and a big bronze statue outside the stadium.
throw $ 7 million and have a 50 feet statue of him in Austin, he leaves for Texas.
guy’s ego is as big as the continent of USA and he loves it.
Apart from that he is one hell of a football coach. Probably the best in college right now.
Great read, Pete
I hope y’all kick Georgia’s ass.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
Thanks for the support! And I’m looking forward to you guys showing Houston what it’s like to play a team from a REAL conference (and the Big Least in 2013 won’t be any more real than Conf USA is right now)
Great read
Classy and hope you had a good time despite the loss… go beat Georgia!
Go Maize, Blue, and Gray!
I agree, Pete: Great read
Felt like I was there myself. If I’d have met up with my game mates, would have been very similar.
Weis and Hoke
I’m sliding this in at the bottom of the thread so the UMTrolls don’t notice it. RichRod was UM’s version of Bill Callahan at Nebraska, ignoring or not understanding tradition, and blowing up the program. As that is true, there is a good chance that Brady Hoke is going to end up as UM’s version of Charlie Weis, that is to say in his first year he makes it to a BCS bowl on the strength of his alma mater’s name and players recruited by his predecessor, is hailed by the fan base as a savior, and lands boatloads of “5 Star” recruits. All he needs now is a “schematic advantage” and a ten year contract extension to go with his 6-6 season next year. After Alabama undresses his team at midfield and beats them with baseball bats in the opener next fall, whatever survives will have trouble with the rest of the schedule. Just in case, the six losses are ‘Bama, ND, MSU, Neb., Iowa, OSU, and potentially Purdue. I’ll be ducking and covering now, thank you.
If Hoke has the level of success Cooper did, we are in trouble.
Cooper won a shit ton of games at OSU, just couldn’t beat UM.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Late to the party...
But I just couldn’t bear to even read any of this stuff for the first couple days. The way that game ended was such a stinger; this one’s going to stick in my craw for a while (It’s the same feeling as Stanzi to McNutt on the last play slant, or Drew Stanton going down against the Wolvies and Braylon Edwards killin’ us in the fourth and OT). I really appreciate the post, Pete, especially the part about mixed feelings of pride and sadness. Rings true for any fan.
Bottom line is, they made just a couple more plays than we did, especially in the first quarter and on that fourth-down conversion that resulted in the winning score.
BTW, does anyone have a link to Bielema’s post game comments? I think a poster in Roxrode’s blog on LSJ had mentioned some classless remarks by BB, and I wanted to see for myself…if true, it’ll confirm what I already think of the guy. I wasn’t really surprised that Fox sideline cub reporter Tim Brewster didn’t have anything bad to say about Bielema (cub reporters being paid not to say such things), but it would have been fun to hear him go off, anyway.
In any event, so much to look forward to in the future for this program. The one positive I’m taking from such a disappointing loss is the motivation it’ll give to the kids whose charge it is to lead this team next year. Go Green—beat the ’Dawgs!
wait a second
I’ve ordered and drank fat tire in Michigan. Or am I nuts?
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
by tbone521 on Dec 6, 2011 6:19 PM CST via mobile reply actions
It's been a few days....
And I still think this is a catastrophe. I think MSU had a legit chance to really get on the national map. Instead, we’re a punchline again. Wasted a great leader like Cousins and set up to have a “rebuilding” year next year. After that? Urban time and Hoke is solidified. We won’t see the Big Ten Championship game for years.
Yes….still cranky. Did we happen to snag some great recruit?
C'mon.
Come in off the ledge, man. Urban Meyer isn’t 10-feet tall and Brady Hoke sure as hell isn’t. Tebow isn’t coming to OSU with Meyer, either, and Urbz doesn’t get to bring the staff he had during his run at Florida. The old days of MSU being seriously out-athleted by the top Big 10 teams are not happening any more. And we aren’t being outcoached, either.
No sensible person who watched that game thinks MSU is a punchline. We have a decent chance of repeating at westish division champs next year, especially with an easier conference schedule. We’ve got at least 8 starters back on D, five olinemen with starting experience back and three or four good RBs. And our QB in waiting is a redshirt junior who’s gotten game experience and seems to at least have a better arm than Captain Kirk. A stout defense and a good running game is just what you want when your breaking in a new starter at QB.
by witless chum on Dec 7, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Nut up
If you want something that keeps U of M fans quiet, sorry. Ain’t no such animal, and never will be. Beat them and we’re thugs. Win the national championship and we must have cheated. Just have to accept it for what it is.
And everywhere else, we’re not a punchline. Check out the game comments from edsbs.com. Even the fans who don’t know or care about MSU talk about Dantonio’s ballsy calls and the penchant for “holy shit” occurrences in our games. If we can beat Georgia, that will go a long way in our favor.
I wish we had the Rose Bowl, too. But remember that a Rose Bowl win didn’t keep things from going to crap in a hurry during Perles’ regime. And I’m frankly not that upset about life without Kirk Cousins. For all his virtues, we ultimately need a more gifted playmaker to get to the next level. In the meantime, Maxwell has been well-groomed to take over.
BCS Has the stink of greed (article)
I’m actually starting to think the ridiculousness that is reaching a bit of a fever pitch may counteract us not getting a BCS bid. We’ll be playing a quality opponent and many folks in the media (and thus their readers) are now realizing the farce that is the Sugar Bowl.
Good read. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20111206/COLUMNISTS02/312060110/Eric-Crawford?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home
all the talk about the returning players is comforting
but what concerns me is Maxwell next year. I just don’t know enough about his accuracy and decision-making. I can see the arm strength and athleticism in the limited time that he’s played, but until we’re several games, those other things are concerns.
Yes, a running game and good defense are a great place to start, but at some point you have to throw the ball (ask UM about having a one-dimensional offense).
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
Did you have similar concerns
about Kirk Cousins’ ability to replace Brian Hoyer? Not intended as sarc, but just wondering how many people thought there’d be a dropoff after losing a two-year starter.
I think Maxwell will be fine, especially if the O-line (which should return four starters) gives MSU good pass protection and a good running game.
You got that right, Cap'n
Everybody assumed the job was Nichol’s, yet Cousins came in & blew the doors off the competition, and two + seasons later, leaves as arguably the greatest QB in Spartan history.
Coach D has not just raised the ceiling here, but more importantly, has raised the floor.
Classy Comments
The comments by Spartans fans here show a lot of sportsmanship and class. Go kick Georgia’s ass in your bowl game. I was at the Rose Bowl the last time Michigan State was there with Percy Snow etc. You will get there soon.
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