GAME THREAD: MICHIGAN STATE VS. PENN STATE
So, it's a bit of a surprise playing a team in blue instead of a team in red today. This is probably a good thing: empirically, Wisconsin is a better team than Penn State, and while MSU has lost games to the Lions in recent years (including this year), those difficulties are nothing compared to the struggles MSU has had against the Badgers in the Bo Ryan era. Games against Wisconsin are always emotional affairs for MSU, and no doubt avoiding the Badgers means that MSU will be less exhausted heading into the BTT championship and/or the opening rounds of the big Tournament.
Nonethless, MSU is only 4-2 against the Lions in the past three years, and many of the wins have been been of the nail-biter variety. As always, Talor Battle is the Lions' headliner, but Jeff Brooks (who should have been on one of the all-Big Ten teams) is a big threat down low, and performed very well against MSU in January. This game clearly means more to Penn State than to MSU: many bracketologists have PSU as one of the last 4 teams in, a position which very well may be compromised with a loss today. Conversely, MSU is probably safe at this point, but winning this tournament would bring more than a modicum of redemption to an otherwise disappointing season. You know Lucas, Green, Roe, Summers, Kebler, and the rest want this badly.
KenPom likes MSU to win, 62-61. This "winning in the Big Ten Tournament" feeling is at once unfamiliar and quite enjoyable. Let's keep it rolling.
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Winning Formula
I’d love to see a cloning of yesterday’s start. Here’s hoping we see the kind of defensive effort throughout the game that we saw down the stretch against Purdue. A comfortable double-digit victory wirh everyone emerging healthy works for me.
I'm hoping for a win
but I agree with Rexrode that a loss really wouldn’t be too bad from a seeding perspective
Ugliest trophy ever.
We ought to make the loser keep it.
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Wonk just threw something at the TV.
Rebound margin was discussed.
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Summers is all over the place here
Beat out Brooks for a rebound, drawing fouls, hitting threes.
Make free throws, guys.
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Another great start
Welcome back Mr. Summers
Who is this #15?
I guess we can take Summers off the side of the milk carton?
Ceterum autem censeo, Iowa esse delendam.
Big time start
Defense is OUTSTANDING – deflections, Payne challenging everything and Kebler and Summers hounding their guards!
Pressing a little too much on the alley-oop try.
It was pretty obvious it wasn’t there.
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Yeah, but I'll take the risk/reward tradeoff there.
Nailing that would have been symbolically huge.
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
Tough call
Lucas threw the alley oop to low. It needed to be a couple feet higher. It might not have been the highest percentage play but I don’t mind them playing aggressive.
If Summers is back
This team just became a seriously tough out for the NCAAs
Still nervous about Battle
We’re his favorite team to go off against and he’s been ice cold at the BTT so far
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
that Wisconsin game was epically bad
For everyone involved.
All we have to do is build a big lead
to survive our scoring drought that going to com in the second half
Eleventy.
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I think it's funny
that Joe Lunardi has Penn St as one of the last four in. I can’t really see how they deserve that.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 3:23 PM CST reply actions
Compared to USC/Colorado/Georgia
I can see the argument.
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somehow they've played the 6th toughest schedule
Looking at it, I’m not sure how.
Their conference schedule was as tough as it could be
The two teams they played once were Indiana and Iowa
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Having Indiana and Iowa as their one-plays in conference helps.
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Looking over their schedule for a final bubble post
Basically they cut all the really awful cupcakes and played mediocre ones instead. RPI flaw strikes again!
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Twice
Frazier could have had the three two passes earlier but it’s alright, AT made up for it with his jumper…
Good lord Monty is awful..
Summers gets hot for the first time the entire season – so you bench him to put in Thornton?
Weak call there
Draymond moved a little, but Kalin’s man was holding him to keep up
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Yes and no...
Always great to see UM get pounded.. would have enjoyed MSU getting another opportunity to pound them if they win today tho..
Nice read by Lucas there for the steal.
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Green's three is a nice start
although Brooks answers
About how I felt about Suton.
Should be in the paint going after rebounds, but if it goes down, okay.
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Not yet, I don't think.
Around 5 fouls on each team, not sure exactly how many.
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Go to the post
I hate when we forget to get the ball inside and Green is hovering around the perimeter, let us play inside out…
Darn it DayDay
not playing Brooks tight enough and picks up a bad foul
It was.
Ball slipped out of his hand, both guys grabbed it at the same time.
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I'm sorry
but Sherman is too weak for this game. Need strength v PSU
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Roe shuffled his feet because he got shoved from behind.
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So did I.
Then I saw the blind zebra signal a travel.
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Horrible call
Roe was pushed man…
Those scoring droughts and the turnovers always killed us this season. Hope we can get it together.
Two fouls.
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Do stupid things with the basketball.
Have shots rim out when you don’t.
Repeat.
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Come on guys
You know Battle is going to shoot that, stay in front of him!
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Battle
Throwing up his crap and it drops in…
You seem surprised.
Why?
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Yeah
Gotta jump that screen with only 2 seconds on the shotclock…
It's on my standard HD package.
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Turner did that to have people ask their cable providers to get TruTV in HD, which equals more money for TruTv/Turner.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
Better than having to use MMOD online for 3/4 of the games.
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Answer by Appling!
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Well considering the start that is a pretty disappointing score line
gotta refocus for the 2nd.
Depth
And 3 games in 3 nights should work in our favor…
Well
Given the first 10 minutes, not happy about a tie. Given the last 10 minutes, happy about a tie.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Appling
He is deadly from the corner but next year he will have to bring the ball up and operate from the top of the key. Hope he makes a quick transition to the position of our quarterback!
We need to stop with the damn line changes when we're doing super well...
been doing it all season and EVERY time it completely kills the team’s momentum.. it’s absurd.
You’ve mentioned that once or ten thousand times this year.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Hopefully
It moves quicky… I wanna go drinking tonight! Late here in Germany!
2 tired teams out there
Fit to be tied.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
by spartyball on Mar 12, 2011 3:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not sure why they're tired
I watched that “game” yesterday and almost all of them just stood around on offense. Their bench had 0 points
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Just put Green and Roe out there
I think they sat Green way too long after his second. He can play with fouls.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
He also has a tendency to pick up lots of stupid fouls in a hurry. Unless the game got on the brink of slipping away, he was staying on the bench.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Again
Green is so good from the left elbow, I just dont know why we do not exploit that more. First play of the game he scores there and then we never really get him there. He should atleast touch it in the post every time down. We really do a bad job of taking advantage of our size on offense. Part of it is of course that Payne, Nix and especially Sherman arent comfortable yet making plays on a consistent basis.
PSUs starters
played almost the entire 40 minutes yesterday
Penn State was nearly the slowest team in the country this year
340 out of 345. I can see why. The last part of the half was definitely their pace.
Mix that with Wisconsin at 345th
And you get “36-33”.
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Not anymore
Going forward Iowa, Indiana and MSU will all try and push the tempo in the conference.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I'm not advocating losing on purpose
But and extra days rest might not be the worst thing.
Plus, I’d rather be a 10 seed than an 8 or 9.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:06 PM CST reply actions
I was thinking if we win we are a 10 seed
by Whoo..Tjones on Mar 12, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to say.
My gut feeling is 9 with a win, 10-11 with a loss.
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Joe Lunardi of ESPN
had us as a 9 this morning.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
And he had us last-team-in the day before.
Put little faith in what he says.
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It is not just an extra day of rest. It would be an extra day and one less game – which is like two extra days of reset.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Silverware
Win the tourney and the season is a success, were not winning the big dance
Summer-time...it's warming up.
Let’s get Durrell going again! He was showing glimpses of Summer time early in this game
Bad recovery on that screen.
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Seems to be working.
Had a good shot there but just wouldn’t fall.
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I like Appling following for his own rebound
Less thrilled with Roe’s unawareness
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Uhoh
Battle heating up.
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If you don't count Chaminade
We haven’t won three in a row all year.
It’s really actually amazing they are going to make the tournament.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:14 PM CST reply actions
And the post-halftime foul parade begins.
Is it too much to ask the refs to call the game the same throughout?
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Sickening
Ticky tack calls they havent called all game. Part of being a good referee is to be consistent and not just in one half…
Where is Payne?!?
We are in some trouble here
32-15 run here i think.
Lots of time left.
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We were down 7 against Iowa in the second half
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Fairly late in the half, too.
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We need to punch it inside
time after time after time
and maybe getting Summers a shot would be good, has he had a FG attempt since the first five minutes?
Yes, he has.
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two after the five minute mark
with 7 and 9 left in the first half.
Of course that crap goes in.
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That would require Battle to stop hitting stupid shots.
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Him or Kebler.
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Jeez....
Nothing you can do about those shots. We just have to hope he cools off.
So, hitting the arm on a 3 is not a foul
Yet the ticky-tack crap is?
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I'll be glad to see Battle gone
next year. I hope he has fun playing in Europe.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:23 PM CST reply actions
At the very least
This game should be the last time we ever see that kid
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Summers cold again.
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That was a decent shot
Just about everyone is missing right now
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Oh, absolutely.
Nobody within 10 feet of you and no clear path to the basket? Shoot the 3.
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Shocking...
I mean.. I thought the MSU coaches decision to bench him right after he hit a couple 3s at the start of the game was a brilliant move that would keep him hot all game.
I'm OK with the shot
but instead of admiring it, head to the rim for a possible rebound.
by donaldo on Mar 12, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We're just a pure jump shooter away
from being a much better team.
I can’t help but wonder how much difference a guy like Byrd would have made.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:26 PM CST reply actions
Of course they are.
Post-halftime foul rules.
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We're not rebounding well anymore either
Not doing much well frankly
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I don't like this 5
yeah, where is the offense going to come from here?
Thornton from 3.
That never ends well.
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Don't tell me they called that on Appling for getting sandwich-screened.
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GO INSIDE DAMMIT
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Have we had a more limited offensive team in the last 13 years?
So few options for guys who can get hot.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:30 PM CST reply actions
Not really, haven't been any yet this half.
/knockonwood
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I shouldn't have said that.
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And shooting.
And the fact that Penn State won’t #$^* miss.
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The problem is that one team is hitting every shot and the other team isn’t.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
I'm getting a little frustrated with the lineups this game
Why are we not trying to post more?
20 points in the last 20 minutes
Simply isn’t going to get it done and might put us back into the play-in games.
Not a chance. Not even a remote chance.
Not with Alabama, VT, and Clemson all losing today.
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we are cooked in the realm of 3 points by PSU.they are more hungry than us,
They have not been to tourney in 10 yrs….and Battle said he will do anything to take this team to the tourney…unfortunately…we looked tired..
Hey, a basket!
I’d forgotten what that looks like.
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Not sure.
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Don't think so.
Game clock, yes. Shot clock, no.
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How many shots have we had roll around the entire rim?
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Most of them
Don’t think we’ve really been very far off on any shot
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
It so boring watching Penn State play at this slow pace
I respect them for doing it because it’s the best way they can win, but it’s really boring when they don’t move the ball inside the 3 point line for the first 25 seconds of the shot clock.
Deliberately waiting until 5 seconds on the shot clock
And then taking whatever you can get has got to be the lowest percentage offense you can devise. And they’re killing with it.
that is how they play...dont worry..they will never advance anywhere in the tourney...
nobody plays wisc style ball and advance,,
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
All about increasing variance
Play an infinite number of possessions and we’re better. Play very few and something weird can happen
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
god does not want us in the final..the time that we dont play OSU, Wisc Or PU in the semis we are down to PSU.
haa..what a joke…Summers cant even hold on to the ball anymore..his confidence is so shaky….
Would a loss be better
for our seed outlook? Assuming we got past the first game, which is no gimme, given this.
It actually could be
Assuming you win as the 11 you get the three second round.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Maybe. I think a 10 seed is better than an 8 or 9. An 11 might be better than an 8 or 9.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'm thinking you're right.
Penn State only played half a game yesterday.
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Piss poor transition D.
Pathetic. More time for Lucas ankle to heal, I guess.
Not with these refs, apparently.
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So not all bad.
7 Big Ten teams is pretty good considering it was looking like four only a few weeks ago.
Not 7
Illinois’s spot has definitely been taken, for the second year in a row
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
If that’s the case, I can’t see how Weber keeps his job.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
If we can get a couple stops
and then a couple shots we’re back in this.
We have been.
And we tip it up and that doesn’t go either.
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not really going to make a difference
nobody’s done anything for us since we were up 10
what happened to our centers
did they forget to come out of the locker room after halftime?
I’ve given up trying to figure out why or when the centers play.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Holy freaking crap
I wasn’t even checking the score on this game. Never seen a weekend this good for bubble teams. Alabama is so screwed.
Stupid Llamas!.
by otisnixon'sparty on Mar 12, 2011 4:48 PM CST reply actions
Agreed.
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Roe giving his all
But his knees can’t take this.
Hasn’t he earned the right to rest?
Why bury the bigs today?
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
by spartyball on Mar 12, 2011 4:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not even close.
There’s no way that was a flagrant or an intentional, but it was a heck of a foul.
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Because the ref is stupid.
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Obviously.
Why do they want to compromise the integrity of the whole tournament.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
There was quite a bit of sarcasm with that comment
That said there have been a ton of no calls on Penn State
by Chris in Kzoo on Mar 12, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Unbelievable.
What has MSU done to deserve such terrible officiating time after time after time.
did you see the Purdue game?
Without the poor officiating we destroy teams.
Let's not act like every loss this season has been terrible officiating.
This one hasn’t even been that bad, for the most part. When you shoot 25% in the second half and the other guys are 70% on contested 3s, you lose.
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Yeah, I know
I should have upped the sarcasm quotient in that post, as it wasn’t meant to be serious.
College basketball referees in general suck.
For everyone.
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Agreed.
Guys like Hightower and Valentine are corrupt, though.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
That’s what ever fan thinks when his team wins.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say that the outcome was a result of the officiating
only that the receive piss poor officiating consistently.
lots to do with Frazier & Battle
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
by spartyball on Mar 12, 2011 4:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If it doesn't have to be "intentional" to be intentional
then the name should be changed
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
don't they have flagrants for this?
Or are they supposed to be intentional?
Flagrant is for "intent to injure" type fouls.
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Scratch Draymond taking too many 3s
it’s our whole team.
Should we try and intentionally injure one of their players the way they did with Delvon in East Lansing?
I’m not being serious, but still..
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 4:56 PM CST reply actions
Summers with the three
All right stats guys, earn your bread and tell us who to foul
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Disappointing result.
Get back to EL and get some rest, guys. Good 2 days. The 3rd day, well, not good.
Well, when you don't go inside ...
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With this team, it's about what they can potentially do on any given day
I just hope the team that played Purdue shows up next week.
Well
their perimeter players just outplayed ours, Kalin just couldn’’t be superman every night. And we never really attempted to try and take it inside so…game.
And Battle had 9 points in a row on crazy shots. That was the difference.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
was it 9?
or 12? I thought he hit 4 straight 3s
Really too bad
I really wanted the rematch v OSU on a neutral court. For some reason I think they can be had and it annoys me that they keep escaping.
They've lost twice. In buildings no one wins in.
They’re really good. They play under control, make shots, and guard. They aren’t lucking out.
They have had a surprising number of close wins too.
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They almost lost to PSU, UM, MSU (all in Columbus), and NW in Evenston. Things even out, especially if you get away from officials who don’t think you foul often.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, but you can't live like that forever.
Play with fire often enough and you’re going to get burned.
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Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I still think they're the best team.
Texas could get them but they are a mess. Everyone else will have major problems with their inside-outside game.
One injury
away from disaster. Their bench is brutal.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
I don't watch enough
non-MSU college hoops to really know. I just don’t like Matta or anything about OSU for that matter, think Craft gets away with murder up top and hope that playing the top 5 players so many minutes catches up to them at some point.
I do think we could have beaten them at home this year if the good MSU team showed up. We actually bothered Sullinger enough to make it a game.
It’ll happen in the tournament. I thought the same thing last year and it happened.
They are very susceptible to foul difficulties and it will catch up with them – just like it did last year.
by SpartanBoiler on Mar 12, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly. Sullinger gets in FT or something
They don’t have bench.
The problem is Matta never uses his bench.
OSU will need some pretty overwhelming talent to win a NCAA Championship while he is head coach.
not with MSU running on fumes
OSU fans were chanting we want Penn St as they were wrapping up UM. Looks like they get their wish.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
by spartyball on Mar 12, 2011 5:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well that sucks
but overall for the BT tournament: Mission Accomplished.
It would be awesome
if Penn St was still left out.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 5:03 PM CST reply actions
They won't be.
If anyone, it’ll be Illinois.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Why would you say that?
What is your problem w/ PSU? You’ve been ragging HARD on them.
Battle has battled hard for 4 yrs. I see nothing wrong with him getting a shot in the NCAA tourney.
Only 2 for Penn St's
i hate getting beat by a scrub like Frasier.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 12, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
yeah mission accomplished..we are in the tourney..we can go the 2003 way or become a 2006 version,
who knows…we could have been a gr8 team, but I guess this is life. We have been so good for so many years and PSU needed the win to be in the tourney.
Bad deal for all other teams..PSU stole some one’s bubble. PSU SOS is higher than MSU????
Harvard..poor team will be left out.
I'm not sure Harvard isn't going to get an at-large.
They’ve got a couple of nice wins in non-conference.
(But yeah, PSU’s SOS being higher than ours is a measure of the dysfunction in the RPI.)
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
We weren't an Elite 8 team...
probably since Allen left, and certainly since Korie left.
We struggle so hard to make shots.
losing players with FF and tourney experience is very very tough...but we will be better next year.
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
we recovered after we lost to GEorge Mason in 2006...i thought tht was the end of the world
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'm actually optimistic
Go back and look at the ‘09 Final Four team. Only three high contributing upperclassmen in Walton, Suton and Morgan (didn’t get much from Gray or Ibok). Meanwhile, underclassmen Allen, Lucas, Summers, Roe, Lucious and Green were all playing very well all ready.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Well, I'm out.
Time to enjoy the nice weather, because God knows I’m going to be parked in front of the TV all next week.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Dunno.
We’re solidly in, I’m not worried about that at all. Might try to do my best guess at who’s in and out right before the selection show, but that’ll probably just be in the selection show open thread.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I'd love something tonight
traveling all day tomorrpw
This makes me uneasy
To play that badly against another bubble team can’t be good. They’re still in, most likely, but that’s not going to help them in any close decisions.
we will play as a 11th seed..
facing Vandy or Temple…i like the chances.
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
We're in.
Not even debatable. Probably an 11, maybe a 10.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
naah...we are happy...Virgina Tech, Alabama, PSU, colorado 12 seeds
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
No.
There’s no way Colorado, USC, VT, Alabama, Georgia, Richmond, Illinois, St. Mary’s are ahead of us – and most of them are likely to make it.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
COlorado, VT, St mary will make the tourney..
USC, Richmond, Georgia and Alabama (one of them out)
by spartynation on Mar 12, 2011 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
Green lining
Lucas needs the rest more than another game and we’re probably better off with the loss anyway.
A win could of got us an 8 or 9 seed at best. I think it’s preferable to be a 10 or 11. Avoid those 1 seeds as long as possible.
The sideline is always greener at MSU.
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