Finis
by KJ@theonlycolors on Mar 17, 2011 11:39 PM CDT
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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The most exhausting Michigan State basketball season in memory ends in quite possibly the most exhausting manner possible.
From the beginning: It turns out that a defense designed to funnel players into the lane and block shots, without fouling a lot in the process, matches up quite nicely with an offense that's highly reliant on a point guard whose primary instinct is to drive the lane looking for shots around the rim and/or opportunities at the free throw line. Game preview FAIL.
The final game of Kalin Lucas's Spartan career ended without about as dismal an individual performance as you could have predicted. Lucas finished the game with 11 points, but it was well into the second half before he was even on the scoreboard. He shot just 4-14 from the field and turned the ball over 4 times. This game should do nothing to detract from the individual and team accomplishments Lucas posted during his time at MSU, but I'm sure it will be a while before that's of any comfort to him.
Meanwhile, in a development that is very nearly the definition of irony, Durrell Summers was the only MSU player who could buy a basket early on. In the first half, Summers converted 5 of 9 field goal attempts, while the rest of the roster shot just 3-19 from the field. Unfortunately, Summers couldn't keep it going, scoring only 3 points in the second half to finish with 12 for the game.
Draymond Green was the closest thing to a consistent offensive factor for MSU, posting the second triple-double of his career (based on this box score, at least): 23 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists. He spearheaded the 22-point comeback over the game's final 8 minutes to draw MSU within one point with 4.4 seconds to go. Alas, it was a bridge just a tad too far.
I'm not going to do a full recap of individual player contributions--for the most part, the MSU reserves were simply overmatched by UCLA's size and athleticism--except to say: Delvon Roe (11 points, 2 blocks, 2 steals) looked spry, and Keith Appling (three 3-pointers late) was clutch. I look forward to what should be, knock on wood, a pain-free senior season for Roe and the full three seasons Appling has remaining as quite possibly the next in a series of great MSU guards.
UCLA was much more impressive than the team's numbers indicated they were coming into the game. Josh Smith overwhelmed the MSU big men when he was on the court, scoring 14 points on 5-7 FG shooting. Tyler Honeycutt, meanwhile, took advantage of his mismatch at the 3 spot, scoring 16 points on just 9 FGA and dishing out 5 assists. MSU evened the numbers out quite a bit by the end, but the Bruins were dominant on both the boards and on turnover margin for most of the game. UCLA came out as the much more aggressive, decisive, and composed team to start the game and, as a result, will advance to the next round of competition.
The fact that this season is over is a source of frustration and relief all at the same time. The lack of quit exhibited by the team eases the sting some; it also provides a final, haunting demonstration of how good the team could be when it was able to shed the burden of expectations and play the game with energy and a sense of excitement.
It's apropos, I suppose: A team that disappointed relative to preseason expectations for an entire season but never quit completely on that season disappointed but didn't quit in the final game of that season.
But just because you don't quit doesn't mean the season doesn't end.
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thanks KJ
and all the other bloggers..u guys were gr8 and even though this season did not turn up like the previous two, we will look back 5 yrs from now and talk about the amazing performance Summers put on in 2010 and Kalin in 2009. probably the best MSU PG last decade!!
his jersey will be up the rafters in Breslin.
Thanks Seniors!!
Good Work KJ
You’ve helped build something special here.
I don’t think I’d have survived tonight without the community of Spartans you helped foster here.
It won’t be the same without you.
by eriksmithdotcom on Mar 17, 2011 11:47 PM CDT reply actions
You'll be missed as well KJ
Don’t be afraid to write us something when numerical inspiration hits
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
energy level = the key to next year for me
did not have it consistently this year
by SpartanforLife on Mar 18, 2011 12:10 AM CDT reply actions
Some thoughts
First I will qualify that i spent a few hour celebrating St. Patrick’s day.
That said I am gonnna post anyway. Take from it what you will.
Obviously this season was a huge disappointment based on preseason expectations. I think there are a bunch of reasons for that both with the players that were dismissed and the guys that stuck around.
First, this team lost roughly 1/3 of its productive returning minutes without Allen and Lucious. Yes they were disappointing early even with Korie around, but I think as this team played better the ceiling would have been higher with him around. And we lost him from the area with the least depth. People were critical of thornton a lot this year, and not necessarily unfairly I guess. But the fact is, there really were very few other options. The last month Kalin was playing close to 40 minutes. Everyone wants them to play Defense, but you just can’t do that four 40 minutes without a sub. Especially for appling who was asked to play D on the other team’s best defender. I think there is room to be critical of the way subs were handled, but frankly I don’t think there was anyway to avoid playing a couple walkons significant minutes.
That said, I think the biggest deficiency for this team was a lack of development by the bigs. The loss of Raymar hurt more than any of us could imagine because improvement from Nix and sherman was marginal, and Payne didn’t give us much. I thought Roe played his heart out, but due to injuries over the course of his career he is limited.
Combine all of the above with Lucas being less than 100 percent for most of the season and you have what we just witnessed. A mediocre basketball team in terms of talent.
That’s my big point. I’m not trying to make excuses for this team. But I think legitimately with the attrition they have had this team didn’t underperform. Yea they didn’t meet preseason expectations, but really were those realistic? This was a 5 seed last year that lost 2 starters in Allen and Morgan. And then lost another contributor.
This is a (Very) long way of saying I think there’s a lot of room for criticism of this team. you can be critical of the coaches for not developing the Bigs, or for bad substitutions, or even be critical of the players for being really mediocre shooters. Be critical of production all you want.
My only opinion is that people critical of the effort of this team are way off base. I’ve said this before but I am gonna say it again anyway. You don’t accomplish what these guys have without working your ass off all year long. I consider myself a hard working individual, but the truth is, I would bet that everyone on this team has put in more time in basketball than I have at anything in my life.
And I think they showed it for the vast majority of this season. yea the Iowa game was a questionable effort. But as a person who has played sports at a reasonably high level, you do have games where you want badly to win and you still come out sluggish. that’s sports. it’s impossible to be at 100 percent all the time.
Here’s basically what I am saying. There’s plenty of things to question about this season. it was horribly frustrating. But I don’t think “energy” or “effort”, “character” or any other intangible item are accurate reasons. This was about a team that was very mediocre at shooting the ball, and didn’t have a reliable post presence. They were good but not great at defense.
That’s a really brief summary but that’s what I think it came down to. In my humble opinion, this team battled in a way that any MSU fan should be proud of just about every night. They came up short more often then we are used to. But that doesn’t change the fact that this team has given us enough that I personally am not going to question their effort, toughness or anything else about their character.
Take that for what you will, considering my participation in St. Patrick’s day and the fact that most of my friends consider me a hardcore MSU optimist, but that’s my opinion on the season we just saw.
Go Green.
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 18, 2011 12:27 AM CDT reply actions
I agree with a lot of this.
But I caution people about the assistants. If you’re hoping that Izzo is going to fire an assistant, and thus scapegoat him for what’s happened, you’ll be sorely mistaken.
The only chance we have a different staff next year is if Monty takes a job. And Boylen most likely isn’t coming back to be an assistant. He’s a head coach used to head coach money.
The stuff with the coaches not developing the bigs is overplayed in my opinion. Sherman shows flashes but has defensive matchup issues. Payne needs a summer of strength training and playing basketball. That sounds weird, but Payne hasn’t played that much basketball. He’s very, very rough around the edges. The Nix thing has been beaten to death.
I agree wholeheartedly that the stuff about guys not caring or not working or not wanting to be good is nonsense. This team had structural issues that were made worse by the dismissals and injuries. Combine that with the usual problems teams go through and some truly weird stuff no one saw coming, it was too much to overcome.
Definitely not blaming assistants
I think people are reading WAY too much into the “monty handles subs” story. IMO, yes he is responsible for the actual determination of when the sub goes in. But I would wager a ton of money that Izzo goes over how much he wants each guy to play before each game, and in what order he wants them to play. Izzo is the head coach.
I played Hockey, a sport that is much more fluid in terms of line changes. But our head coach delegated the actual changing of lines to assistants but trusted them to do it based on the matchups and minutes they wanted.
So yea, I’m ok with questioning some of the sub patterns. But those should be directed at Izzo, not Monty, in my opinion.
I’m not trying to paint the Bigs as failures. they are still young. But I don’t think it is unfair to point out that there was not a lot of development from the returning guys this year.
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 18, 2011 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the oldest memes regarding MSU basketball...
is that Stephens is solely responsible for coaching the bigs, and that he can’t do it, and that he should be canned and a “Big Man Coach” should be brought in. Rarely can anyone name an actual “Big Man Coach”.
It’s a flawed premise. That’s what I was warning against. All the coaches work with all the players. Some concentrate more with others, depending on the relationship.
I agree with your take on the subs. Monty may call them, but Izzo has discussed it with him and utilizes his veto pretty often.
fair enough
Like I said, in my opinion I think the bigs didn’t develop enough in the offseason for this team to do what people expected it to.
Not necessarily saying they didn’t develop at all. I think the “MSU doesn’t develop bigs” meme is overused as well. Paul Davis was a much better player as a Senior than as a frosh, whether people want to admit it or not. Suton was a complete scrub his first two years and graduated as a borderline NBA prospect. I think the results of Izzo developing bigs are inconclusive.
But I will stand by, if this team was going to be a real contender they needed more development from their bigs. that’s not to say it can’t happen next year. Suton showed very little till his Junior year. Same for Andre Hudson, or granger.
Like I said, it’s more of a statement that given the attrition on the perimeter, they needed a true step forward from the front court and for whatever reason it didn’t happen this year.
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 18, 2011 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions
edit
complete scrub is too strong. suton wasn’t very effective his first years.
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 18, 2011 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions
slight rebuttal
Hudson was pretty good sophmore year but he competed with Smith, Granger and Klein (to some extent) for minutes so his impact was diminished somewhat. Also Sutons post game was respectable but not dominant, he had a good shot and always did I dont think we developed that.
Im not saying players dont develop they obviously do, but they should be developing more. Some is on the players (Nix gaining weight still just baffles me, Herzog not gaining weight baffles me, these are times when the player simply hasnt had enough dedication to sacrifice for the game. Im not saying they dont care, but they certainly could(’ve) care(d) more) but much is the coaches. Sherman should understand how to play defense by now. Roe should have some sort of a jump hook to counter his lack of explosiveness. I know he was hurt but you need to compensate so he can be a legitamite threat offensively. Hes had some good games but it frustrates the hell out of me when he goes to lay it up and the ball crashes onto the rim and backboard and careens to midcourt. These are coaching issues that should (and probably will eventually) be addressed in some way shape or form
I can't comment on who can coach what
But I do think player development comes in games more so than practice and the 3 bigs could never get enough PT or opportunities, considering:
1. they’re fighting each other for minutes
2. they either can’t or aren’t allowed to play together
3. the team relies heavily on Green and Roe to play significant minutes and neither is a wing
4. their PG was either not inclined to or instructed not to feed the post, which is related to
5. this was/is clearly a perimeter oriented offense meaning the bigs are relegated to defensive/rebounding duties, areas where they struggle most
Will this clear up next year when there is a 4th big added the mix?
Should Roe redshirt to get himself completely healthy and maximize his opportunities for a bball future after graduation?
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
also
after reading the “finis” thread, it was overwhelmingly positive. I agree with that. So I guess this was a little pre-emptive. I’m used to reading comments in the game thread like “I won’t miss Summers when he’s gone” or " these guys are too soft to be Spartans"
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 18, 2011 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I dont mind this staff
Its not 2000’s staff but seriously what is? Monty is a former player who was an excellent point guard. He does a decent job developing guards. People are saying “oh you cant just find a big man coach!” but you can find someone who isnt. We obviously dont have one. Id like to see someone who has actually developed a talented big man at a smaller school (like a Morehead State assistant who has worked with Faried) and bring him in. I dont think its a necessity but its obvious Izzo isn’t good at it and neither are the assitants.
please stop it.dont embarrass urself. If we would have won by 1 point, I doubt u would have written this.
by spartynation on Mar 18, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
People have been saying this for years, win or lose
You look at a guy like Roe who obviously is a worker, but plays on raw emotion.. to me this is the biggest indicator of all. He obviously has talent, but many of the “finer points” go undeveloped. You look at guys like Nix, Payne, Roe, Sherman… these guys just look lost out there at times. When was the last time a guy from MSU developed a complete down low game while he was here? I always thought that even Paul Davis was basically the same player with the same “moves” for his entire career here. Ditto with guys like Suton.
And even the forwards always look lost down low at times. You look at a “matchup nightmare” guy like Green, and we have him trying to drain threes from outside! Half the time he is being guarded by a guy who is vastly smaller than him, but he has no “back to the basket game” at all!
How a guy like Nix has absolutely zero development over the time he has been here has been frustrating. You look at guys like that blimp from UCLA last night (who was a true frosh, IIRC) and have to wonder how those guys can be dominant while our guys never are.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Mar 18, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
every school has a style and MSU is known for its guard play..ditto for georgetown for their bigs.
it doesnt mean that MSU is bad in developing big men.Look at how many big men have come and gone at OSU and how many FF’s has that turned out to. 1 final four with Koufos, Mullens, Oden. All McDonalds 5 star.
Is this a coaching problem. I dont think so and I will not put the blame easily on Dwayne Stephens and Izzo. Sutton developed into a solid player after starting as pillsbury doughboy. Davis was solid, and give PAyne some time to develop. Sherman needs to gain weight and Nix will be improved if he sticks around next year. When u lose dont find scapegoats. we were exhausted after the season turned out to be. How about losing, Morgan, Allen and Luscious from this team?
Players with multiple final four experience.
by spartynation on Mar 18, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Morgan was obviously a loss, but it wasn’t like we “lost” Allen and Luscious, we kicked them off the team!
I am all for giving guys time to develop. I’m not going to think that Payne should be a world beater coming out of the gate this year. But did he improve as the year went on? I would say the answer to that was “no”. Did Nix improve from last year?
I would say that Suton was basically the same guy he was when he showed up, but he improved his midrange shooting, not his down low move. Davis was solid when he showed up on campus.
We will see how it turns out next year, but I’m telling you: if Payne isn’t markedly improved next year its going to hard to keep saying that our coaching staff can develop bigs
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Mar 18, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
You can't blame "attrition" like these guys graduated
When Izzo and the coaching staff can’t keep the kids in line, that falls on them not some random chance like I feel you are suggesting. When you kick two of your veteran guards off the team, you can’t then turn around and talk about it like it was just some random event. When your guys get depressed and “miss the trip” to games like Nix did, that’s not just some random event. Even if these guys are head cases, Izzo and the coaching staff recruited them in the first place!
This year has been an abysmal coaching effort, period.
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Mar 18, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
If you are going to keep making that excuse, I'm going to keep making this counterargument
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Mar 18, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Not with me, you're not.
I’m done with it. See my last comment below if you feel like it.
by rook34 on Mar 18, 2011 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Allen and Luscious let themselves and the team/coaches down
Do you honestly think TI or any head coach at this level would dismiss a senior or
a junior from the team for a minor/little/inconsequential reason? To make a point?
There are many ways to discipline players far short of kicking them off the team.
Izzo himself said something alluding to blame on him for those 2 players behavior or whatever it was. We may never know but I doubt it was minor/to prove a point/sacrifice a player to make the other players pay attention. I doubt that the team did not understand the team rules, expected behaviors etc, that expectations weren’t clear.
People make mistakes. Allen and Luscious at 20, 21 should know better but people make
mistakes. The fact that both families (and mothers) did not speak ill of Izzo’s decision
says to me (a mother who naturally is prejudiced in my child’s favor) that Allen and Luscious did something pretty stupid and let themselves and the team/coaches down.
by wifeofaspartan on Mar 19, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Next Year We'll Be Better
I really believe, we’ll be better next year. The B10 will be weaker, and I would expect a Top 3-4 finish, maybe even contend. I do think our chemistry was always off and despite Lucas and Summers being buddies, am I the only one that thinks they lack on-court chemistry? I always thought Lucious was a better PG for Summers. We really missed Korie in the 2nd half of the season. I could have seen us winning at least 2 more games with him.
But, on to next year. I think we have a solid core of players with Green, Roe, Appling, Payne, and Nix. I still cannot understand why Sherman plays so much and no one wants to hear another AT bashing.
We basically have 6 new players coming in next year with Dawson, Trice, Anderson, Kearney, Byrd, and Gauna. If 3 are good contributors, we will be good. If 4-5 are good contributors, watch out.
Next year’s starters: C – Payne, PF – Green, SF – Dawson, SG – Kearney, PG – Appling. We will be much more athletic and long.
Major bench players: C – Nix, PF – Roe (6th man), SF – Byrd, SG – Anderson, PG – Trice.
On the fringes: Sherman, Gauna, AT.
I see Izzo installing some more full-court pressing and re-invigorating the fast break with a more aggressive defense.
Our main issue is going to be experience on the perimeter. Other than Appling, we bring nothing back. Hope the 4 freshman learn fast!
GO GREEN! GO WHITE!
by greensincebirth on Mar 18, 2011 3:38 AM CDT reply actions
byrd
actually think he might crack the starting lineup. He will give us some more size up there and is suppossedly a knock down shooter. Can Byrd play the 2 with Appling and Trice at the 1?
I think that's a good question.
I’d ask the same of Kearney.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Excellent post
I think next year will be a relief for the entire program. I think the coaches and especially the players cringed under the preseason pressure that they had. Then everything turned into a snowball and we also had to realize that the roster had some major flaws. Now next season, we will not only be going into the season with moderate expectations but also with a much more balanced roster.
Overall talent might be less but in the end the additions of Byrd (hopefully he is being as good a shooter as advertised) and Dawson (who is the real deal and fills a gigantic need) take care of two of our biggest problems this year. We lacked a consistent outside threat to keep people out of the lane and we did not have a single small forward on the roster. Another thing that has plagued our teams for years is the inability of players to create outside of the offensive set. Lucas was great at it when healthy but he wasnt a great passer and then there was Green. That was it. Now Keith Appling will take over for Lucas and I think with Izzo giving him the freedown to attack he should be fine. He had a limited role this year and even though he clearly has the ability he just was underutilized. With Dawson we get a major recruit in who should immediately play starter minutes. In him we finally have a player again who will create mismatches and wont be overmatched by either athletisism or size. Plus he is a dominant rebounder. Raymar was that kind of player but I thought that he developed his game in the wrong direction. As he bulked up and got stronger inside his outside game diminished. Dawson now is actually developing in the other direction as he is already a dominant inside force and according to many reports continuesly expands his outside game. If either Kearney, Trice or Anderson get minutes then we got three more players who have the ability to do more than catch and shoot, pass the ball and run around screens.
You are also making a great point about the slight change in philosophy. The younger team next year should struggle at times in the halfcourt but brings much more defensive potential and athletisism to the table than this years team. We rarely pushed the ball this season and I think a huge factor for that was Lucas’ health. We gotta understand though that Izzo’s system of controlled execution only gets you so many points in the halfcourt and that we need fastbreak points and easy baskets to win more games. Think about it, getting 6-10 points of easy transition or quick counter breaks could have been the difference between gutting out five or six games that we lost because we just couldnt score the ball. It was a stable under Izzo and we have to get back to that.
The defensive potential of the new roster is tremendous in my opinion. Payne showed flashes at the end of the year and I think he will be a presence inside next year. Green and Roe are strong at PF. Appling will be a Big Ten Defensive First Teamer at some point in his career, he is that good and next season he will be able to take on point guards instead of bigger, stronger shooting guards. Dawson is also perfect at the three and we will never be overmatched in terms of size and athletisism here.
Appling 6-2
Byrd 6-6
Dawson 6-6
Green 6-7
Payne 6-10
I’ll go to war with that lineup any day of the week and improved depth should also help. Finally we got a balanced team again and no more midget backcourt tandems, not more walk ons at small forward for 20 minutes and we will not be overmatched by an average team like UCLA just because they got the bigger and better athletes.
we also have Kearney and Anderson to come off the bench. I think we will be solid.
Also the Big ten is wide open. I have no idea who will win but we can be right there with the veteran leadership of Roe and Green. I am sure Green will be the best leader for coach since Cleaves.
by spartynation on Mar 18, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
The sum of our parts next year
We won’t have anyone to fill Kalin’s shoes, but I believe we will be better next year. Matching Summers’ production shouldn’t be much of a challenge, and I’m anticipating improvement from all of our returning players, with significant gains for Appling and Payne. Add Byrd and Gauna to the mix, along with a top-tier recruiting class to provide needed depth, and there should be more scoring options for next year and an improved defense. Guys should be fresher, and we can be more aggressive on the defensive end, perhaps utilizing the press in games on a regular basis. I think the big question mark will be at the point. I hope Appling spends a lot of his summer developing his skills and Trice can give solid minutes early on.
Lucas comments
Does anyone have a video of the Lucas postgame interview? I want to hear the whole interview. It seems like he really wanted to pull this one out…. not just for himself but for the entire MSU community. Man, I’m going to miss seeing him in Green and White.
Every emotion (except one)
As KJ rightly pointed out and I’m sure other people are also pointing out today, that game was an absolute reflection of this season as a whole. Watching it, I experienced every emotion I did throughout the season: anger, frustration, excitement, pride, despair. Like the season, however, one emotion was missing: joy. This was simply not a year filled with much joy. Even the wins were somber affairs, sweating out teams like Chaminade, pulling out crazy comebacks against the lower half of the league, or winning the games “you’re supposed to win,” so it’s not as much joy as it is the accomplishment of a task. The Purdue game, far and away the best game of the year, was probably the closest we came to a “joyful” game. So I guess we have that.
"You can look at the dinosaur that weighs you down or you can look at the big pot of gold (and) try to say, 'You know what? I'm going to try to live up to expectations.' " -Tom Izzo, Iron Mountain Philosopher
Reality Bites
I knew this was coming but still hate it.
UCLA played how MSU wants to play in the 1st, tough half court D and offensive rebounding.
MSU cut their lead playing how they need to play.
This game shows what can happen when you change up defenses.
Also shows what happens when Appling HAS to shoot, he’s so reluctant most of the time.
Love the fighting spirit to the very end. It was just not going to happen this season.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
by spartyball on Mar 18, 2011 8:12 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Good point on the fighting spirit
And there was especially one player who never gave up yesterday: Draymond Green. He left it all out on the floor and willed the team back. Appling, Summers, Lucas all chimed in here and there but the leader of that entire comeback was Green. Also Roe with his defense.
That bodes very well for next year as Green and Roe will clearly be the veteran leaders for this squad and they showed yesterday that they can do an admirable job at it…
good recap
Once again, the team seemed totally flat at the beginning of a big game. UCLA got every loose ball, it seemed. That inability to rise up to the occasion was perhaps the central characteristic of this team, and the main reason we found them so frustrating. The great MSU teams had bad shooting nights, but they never ever seemed lackadaisical, with such piss poor execution on offensive sets and slow feet on defense.
Having said that, UCLA’s length really bothered MSU, Because Izzo emphasizes rebounding so much, people tend to miss just how undersized MSU was this year. This has been striking with Summers, who at 6-4 is in fact the classic tweener. Everyone always refers to his athleticism, but again last night, he had guards blow right by him and small forwards stuff his shot attempts. I wonder about the point guard position next year, particularly Trice, another really small guard without huge athleticism. But I assume we will have much more length at the wing, with Byrd and Dawsen, akin to the 2005 team.
Appling
should take over for Lucas. He was a dominant scorer in high school, can take people of the dribble once he gains confidence and he would be lethal spear heading our defense at the one. I dont see Izzo starting Trice as a freshman, especially since Appling started to bring the ball up quite a bit towards the end of the year.
In general you make a great point about being undersized in the backcourt for years. Lucious, Lucas, Neitzel, Kebler, Chris Allen… all under 6-3 and getting heavy minutes at both guard spots. That should change next year.
appling
My only question about Appling at the 1 is his mind set; like Lucas, he is not a true point guard, and he will need to a) learn to get the ball to people in the right way at the right time, and b) improve his vision of the court to become a better passer. Lucas got to be ok, at it, but never lost the instinct to look for his won shot first. It would be great to have a natural point guard, for once, with size.
Pride
This team never quit, never gave up. They just weren’t good enough. That happens. They lost two guards, and had a third become a shell of himself. They fought on. Every Spartan should be proud of this team. All you can do is all you can do. There is no taking away the accomplishments of Lucas, Summers, and Kebler, and a future led by Green, Roe, and Appling looks pretty damn bright to me.
The game was a reflection of the season
For some reason we were never able to get our core three players clicking on the same night, and tonight was no different. In the post season analysis, I hope someone can figure out why it is that Spartan teams so often start game inefficiently. I see Izzo as a master at prparation, yet over the past several years, I’m guessing we’ve had unproductive starts in half our games. Some depth and a dead-eye three point shooter will help. Hope fully Byrd can play that role next year, and with some athletic players coming in, perhaps we can look at employing the press from time to time.
Last night we closed to ten with about 12 minutes remaining, and had them in foul trouble. That was the place for Green to touch it in the paint, draw a foul, drive for a layup, or find an open man. Instead we put up jump shots, they went on a run, and the hill was a little too high to climb. This was an example of what has hurt us this season – the failure to understand the game situation and execute accordingly. Players and coaching staff are equally responsible there.
Hopefully those returning and the incoming freshman can spent the off season developing their bodies and games, having learned much from this year’s frustrations.
And I wanted to add
My best to the departing seniors. Thanks for the memories over the years. may they realize their dreams.
Last 3 Tourney Games
Have been decided by a total of 5 points: Tennessee (1), Butler (2), UCLA (2). Those 3 games were preceded by Northern Iowa (7), Maryland (2), and NMSU (3). So that’s 6 games decided by a total of 17 points. Can’t play that many close games and expect to have a better record than 4-2. Makes me appreciate last year’s run even more.
"You can look at the dinosaur that weighs you down or you can look at the big pot of gold (and) try to say, 'You know what? I'm going to try to live up to expectations.' " -Tom Izzo, Iron Mountain Philosopher
Eloquent Recap, KJ
Tough night, tough year. Like many, I’m taking a wait-and-see approach to next season (as if one has a choice): I don’t know where our scoring will come from and who will be ready for the bright lights, but I do intuitively sense that we will be better defensively. Watching AP this year was a good reminder that whatever high expectations there are for incoming freshman, it is a steep learning curve, and nearly half of our squad will not have played a single college game.
I thought it interesting that we actually seemed to run some plays for Roe last night; hope that was a sign of the future and, if truly healthy, he can improve on the offensive end over the summer. I love that kid, and along with Day-Day, we’ll have two seniors who have poured themselves into the program leading the way.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Mar 18, 2011 9:03 AM CDT reply actions
I like your point on Payne
and freshmen in general. I think we need to temper expectations a little regarding the guys we haven’t seen play before. I’m not saying they won’t be instant impact, but it seems like everyone expects the guy who hasn’t played a minute of college basketball to be the next Carmello Anthony or Sullinger and then when that instant dominance doesn’t happen it’s “so and so is a disappointment” and “our coaches can’t develop talent or use it effectively”. I think of it as the Torbert effect – a guy who was a solid player but who everyone thought of as a disappointment because he was supposed to be the second coming of Michael Jordan.
I’m optimistic about next year but, everyone saying that we’ll be better after losing one of the program’s all time greats needs to temper expectations. We could be better, and the league may be worse, which means that even if we are only just as good we may have a better season. We should be deeper – we won’t, if things go according to plan, have walkons playing anywhere near the minutes they did this year. With marginal development from our bigs (Payne, Sherman, Nix) one or more will be solid contributors. We’ll have more length, and as they say, you can’t coach height. We may have more overall athleticism and one or more better, more consistent perimeter shooter.
But those same guys might be lost or not maintain focus on D, or they might not be the shooters we expect, or they may (as was the case with Appling this year if you look at his turnover percentage) have freshman fumble-itis. Speaking of which, the number one thing Appling needs to work on to make a great fresh to soph leap is hanging onto the ball. Everything else is there but he has a Lucious-esqe turnover rate. If he can get a handle on that he won’t be a full-on replacement of the sophmore or junior version of Lucas, but will be effective enough that the loss won’t hurt quite as much.
I’m also optimistic that Payne can make more than marginal improvements because players generally make the largest leap between their freshman and sophmore years. Plus, he missed a lot of practice time coming into this year because of the shoulder injury, so an even larger leap than normal is possible. He certainly appears to have the frame and physical tools to be a really good post player. All in all there are reasons to be encouraged but we shouldn’t be disappointed if next season isn’t a championship year. It might be, but a lot of question marks have to be answered in the affirmative for that to happen. We will be solid at PF with Roe and Green is an excellent player and leader. We’re not going to be bad by any stretch, but I think we should be ecstatic if we’re as good next year as we were last year (basically in the upper half of the league with a shot at a co-championship). If that happens it would mean that one or more of the freshman/redshirts are the real deal and our younger players have shown improvement.
by TheCrestedHelm on Mar 19, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Appling
Definitely has room for improvement with his ball-handing, but individual turnover rate is one of those stats, I think, that can be somewhat deceptive. Because Appling’s role in the offense was so limited (15% usage and shot %) the impact of his turnovers on his stats is going to be magnified, especially when you consider that his primary role was to take on some of the ball-handling load. So he had the ball in his hands a lot without consuming the possessions that would have reduced his TO rate. In terms of minutes played he wasn’t that horrible. But, you’re right, he could stand to tighten up his handle a little.
First half hole > second half vim
So frustrating, but such a perfect microcosm of this year. Huge stretches of confused, inexplicable ineptitude, flashes of talent and ability commensurate with the talen we know we have, ultimately falling short in the end. Screw the loss, my gut hurts for Kalin. His legacy will deservedly live forever, retired jersey or not, but this wasn’t the way he should have gone out.
In some twisted way, it’s a relief that the frustration and angst of this season is finally over. I hate the betraying sensation I have for feeling that way, but I feel it nonetheless. We’re fortunate to be in a place where this season was truly an aberration, but man did this abberation suck, and suck hard.
Go Green.
Tonight's going to be a good night.
Nobody should blame the assistants for the bigs not developing.
We lose as a team and win as a team. Coach has good assistants and it is sad to see some spartan fans blame the assistants. Every program had a tough year..look at Louisville, UConn, UNC, Syracuse.The fact that we made it to the tourney is a testament to coaching. If someone would have told me that we would make the tourney after the Iowa loss, I would be laughing. We have the luxury to see the spartans go deep every year where as some teams just want to make it to the tourney once in a while.
Also, people should be patient next year. A young team with back-to-back games against UNC and DUke.
Barnes and Henson will be gone.
As will Singler, Irving, Smith, and probably Mason Plumlee.
Those games won’t be the bloodlettings the cowering crowd thinks.
I disagree
When you take a team like ours with our expectations, you can turn around and say that making a 10 seed with a first round tourney loss is an accomplishment. You forget where we are (and where we want to be) as a program. Sure, the Penn States of the world can hang banners that say “NCAA tourney appearance”, but that doesn’t really cut it on the accomplishment scale.
Oh, and “don’t blame assistants because we lose as a team”? Can you come up with any actual arguments beyond that for our dismal big development and puzzling substitution patterns?
"It's a trap!"
by AdmiralAkbar on Mar 18, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand what you want.
Izzo publicly has blamed himself on numerous occasions, including once again the other day, for the entire season, including the dismissals.
We get it. It’s been a bad season. Izzo is not going to fire an assistant coach. That’s not the way he works. Building the assistants as straw men to blame lets everyone else, including the head coach, off the hook.
No one’s happy about this.
by rook34 on Mar 18, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ask UNC, UConn, LouisVille, Syracuse.
how did UNC season turn out after a top 10 preseason last year. U think they did not have talent. They have 5 star recruits on the bench.
Right now I find Debbie Downer to be more optimistic than u AdmiralAkbar.
Expectations sometimes dont pan out and that is how it is. Ask Alabama this year, MSU in basketball this year. Iowa in football this year.
Remember 2009 MSU season preseason no2, goin in the tourney 8 losses and we finish no 2.
I stand up for the coach for kicking out allen and luscious even if it meant flushing the season in the drain. Payne and Sherman both were injured last summer and Nix is immature. Things will work out, I watched IZZo’s teams for 15 years and I am not going to change my opinion because of two angry fans.
Ask this question?
How many teams out of the 64 would want IZZO.
Other than DUke, UNC, Kansas…every other team wished they had izzo to coach them.
Defense and Rebounding
Totally agree! The great MSU teams have always been about to rebound and defend. We dominate other teams in those departments. I think we didn’t have the personnel to do that this year. Look at how many players in the playing group were sub-par athletes: Nix, Sherman, Thornton. And, I would argue that Summers was unwilling to be a good defender. Lucas (and Korie when he was here) have always had height limitations. Payne had strength limitations.
The great 2000 team had superior, tough, strong athletes. Mo Pete, Hutson, Cleaves, Bell, Thomas, JRich, Chappell, even Granger. Long, lean, tenacious defenders.
We’ve slowly gone away from that, and I really, really think Izzo knows that.
I think Dawson, Anderson, and Kearney will fit this mold. Trice may be undersized, but is very skilled. I’m not sure about Gauna and Byrd, but certainly Payne and Appling fit this mold.
We are coming back! Go GREEN! Go WHITE!
by greensincebirth on Mar 18, 2011 12:31 PM CDT reply actions
Seniors
I’m in high school, so I haven’t been following state for as long as most people here, but I remember in my 7th grade year was the first year I really started paying major attention to MSU, as I had always followed them but not nearly as close as I started that year. That year was these seniors freshman years, so for me this is my first class I’ve paid close attention to all the way through, and to see them graduate is definitely saddening as I kinda feel like they’re my “original” state players.
You started following at a good time
I can remember how proud and excited Coach Izzo was to bring those kids in.
He promised they would hang banners and they did.
It’s a shame they didn’t get the big one and it’s a shame Chris Allen couldn’t stick around for Sr Day. It was a fun ride, this year not withstanding.
Every year can’t be our year, that’s the nature of sports.
When it is our year, we’ll remember this aberration and it’ll be that much sweeter.
I’m betting we won’t have to wait long.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
Looking ahead already
Thanks to the seniors for 4 great years! I am already looking ahead, however.
So next year we have UNC (aircraft carrier), Duke (in the Champions classic), and another ACC school in ACC/B1G challenge. Does anybody else know what’s on schedule? I heard we’re playing Gonzaga as well. Will the UNC game count for the B1G/ACC challenge? Are we playing in any early season tourneys?
we are playing on 11/11/11 against UNC and the 4 elite team tourney in chicago.
DUKE, MSU, KANSAS, KENTUCKY. WE ONLY PLAY DUKE THOUGH.
Did not know about gonzaga. We suck when we play at Maui, like the 2005-2006 season.shud remove it. I dont know about gonzaga, but a very challenging schedule.
by spartynation on Mar 18, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I know it was a 4-year deal..
neutral/neutral and home/home… was this year 3 or 4? If it was 3 – I think you’re right that we also get Texas.
I think we're done with TX
Lucas and Summers played them 4 times:
Lucas’ coming out party at The Palace-2007
Summers 3pt game winner in Houston-2008
The Turnover Meltdown in Austin-2009
The Beatdown at Breslin last December
Not to mention the MSG game in 2006 when Neitzel won it with the lefty lay in.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
That's correct
It was a four-year contract; it’s been fulfilled.
by Pete Rossman on Mar 18, 2011 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank Jeebus for that
No offense to Texas – I think they have a fine program. But I’ve grown tired of playing them every fricking year and it’s not because “they always beat us” because they don’t. I just think a change of scenery would be nice. I’d also be happy not to see UNC on our schedule for a while and it’s also not because they beat us all the time (although in their case that’s what happens). It’s just that there are a lot of other fine programs out that that we rarely if ever play unless we run into them in the tournament – e.g. Pitt, Georgetown, Maryland, Louisville, Arizona (actually just about anyone from the PAC 10 for that matter). I could add more but that’s a start.
by TheCrestedHelm on Mar 19, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope the title of this post
doesn’t mean you’re checking out already KJ, but if so, thanks again for everything. You’ve been an enjoyable and insightful read and have taken a balanced, fair and entertaining approach to describing, analyzing and explaining MSU basketball as both a fan and an armchair statistical analyst. Best of luck in your other pursuits. I’ll always think of you as the Mateen Cleaves of college sports bloggers. Hope you continue to stop in as a guest blogger when the inclination strikes you and time permits.
by TheCrestedHelm on Mar 19, 2011 11:03 AM CDT reply actions
A few more words to come
But thanks.
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Mar 19, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Next Year
Spartans will be much better next year and will definitely advance beyond the Sweet 16. I think they will be improved by the loss of one of the best Spartans ever….Kalin Lucas. While Kalin has always been great at creating his own shot, I don’t think he was great at making others around him better. Think about how many times In the last two years the Spartan offense has been rather lethargic with many passes around the perimeter and then a hurried shot is launched at the end of the shot clock. Or how many times we didn’t even get a shot off while trying to take the last shot at the end of a game, or the end of a half. Kalin only averaged 3 assists per game this year, and was never good at getting the ball to people in a position to score. Don’t forget our run to the Final Four last year occurred after Kalin went down. I believe Izzo tried to accommodate for this by often running the offense through Draymond Green this year, which explains why Draymond led the team in assists. I think Kalin was phenomenal in other areas. He was the quickest guard to ever don the Green and White, and a phenomenal scorer, but I am really excited for the start of next season to see how these guys respond to someone other than Kalin at the point.
by Fighting with a vim on Mar 21, 2011 3:32 PM CDT reply actions
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