Coaching Carousel - Matt Painter(?) Edition
by msuduster on Mar 28, 2011 10:26 PM CDT
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Print*Yes, I understand this is a Michigan State blog, but as Purdue has recently challenged for Big Ten Titles and we recently had our own coaching scare, I thought it'd be interesting to throw my 1 cent into a 2 cent discussion*
I probably had the same reaction most people had when Painter's name surfaced as a possible candidate at Missouri. LOL. WUT?
But the longer the rumor lingered the silence in West Lafayette was deafening. What are the odds a coaching alum in a recruit rich state would leave? He hasn't choked any kids on tape, never encouraged players to help cover up a murder, and as far as we know never lied to the NCAA.
National media had pretty much the same reaction. Never going to happen. Except .... it might.
As I recall, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a time when Tom Izzo thought about leaving. I don't mean last year with the ill-fated Cavs flirtation. I mean, in the early part of the 2000's when he walked on water. Rebuilding the basketball program, hanging banners, and a title buys you a lot of credit. Alas, the administration may not have been on the same page. Rumors of a potential jump to the NBA turned out to be just that and we hummed along quietly until the discontent of last summer. However, the past history can be a good indication of what's happening to the Boilermakers right now.
If your coach doesn't get along with your administration and / or athletic department, it's only a matter of time until either the coach goes or the agitation goes. The MSU administration really screwed up with football and Saban. They learned, somewhat, and didn't screw the pooch in basketball. We made concessions to Izzo after it was clear he was serious about investing in the program. Even today there are whispers that some of the members of the Board of Trustee's tolerate more than like Tom Izzo. I'm not schooled in the politics at Purdue, but I think it must be obvious this is about more than money for Painter. Big ego's cause big friction. Whether it's about more money for his assistants, facility improvements, etc. Painter wants the Purdue administration to pony up and support the basketball program as much as possible.
As a MSU fan, I have no opinion on whether or not Painter will run off. All I do know is Tom Izzo at one point had a similar situation in his face when he was an up and coming young coach. He stuck it out, he weathered the storm of less than ideal conditions. It wasn't easy, even he has referenced the school running through numerous football coaches and the hardship that can have on an athletic department. However, I shudder to think of MSU post-2003 with a coach by any other name than Izzo. In just a few days, we'll see if Purdue has to face such a reality.
This is a FanPost, written by a member of the TOC community. It does not represent the official positions of The Only Colors, Inc.--largely because we have no official positions.
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Certainly a move for a raise
But Hammer & Rails is reminding me of this blog last summer. No fun.
looks like the Purdue students are taking a cue from MSU last year.
they are having a rally in the campus hoping that Coach Painter stays. It is mind boggling that a coach would leave PU for Mizzou, where the Big 12 league is set to be defunct in this decade.
From a letter to the John Purdue Club:
Proactively they have made an investment in Matt that was communicated last evening, clearly reinforcing their continued commitment to him and to our championship program.
Has Purdue won something I’m not aware of?
Err, several "championships" have been won under Painter.
I don’t see any implication of a national championship or anything.
the Purdue rally to plead support to Coach painter did not go so well.
from the tweets it looks like 11 people showed up!
YIkes!!!
who wouldn’t leave if only 11 people showed up.
11 people?!?! Oh my!
However, in the interest of giving back the misery that was shot my way for 10 long days last summer by my Purdue colleagues (apparently, a lot more of them work for my company in Chi than do us fellow Spartans), can you give me the handle of any of those tweeting about the dismal showing? There’s nothing like forwarding a disheartening tweet to a cocky Boil.
Thanks
Interesting
I’ve read through Hammer and Rails a little bit. They seem a bit more angry compared to our complete panic last summer.
I think that’s because this looks like it is much more about money. It’s hard to argue that he is looking for a new challenge by making a lateral (maybe actually backward) move to Mizzou.
With Izzo I recall the mood of people being terrified that he would leave, but not angry. If the rumor had been that he was going to another college program though… I think you would have seen some knives come out.
by trivialstuff16 on Mar 29, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Izzo – scared
Painter – nervous and angry (at the AD, president, etc)
Maybe we were more scared than angry because Izzo has put so much in and brought our program up so much that we felt he owed it to himself.
Personally I think it was ludicrous anyone would be mad. Hes taken us to 6 final fours and won a title. I don’t think him taking a look at a $6 million gig was out of line. Also, the timing. If he ever wanted to jump it was now or never. I’m glad that was an itch he scratched.
by msuduster on Mar 29, 2011 11:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The power of people
Was apparently not in West Lafayette. Hastily arranged rallies can be a crapshoot.
The Izzo stuff had some real momentum thanks to a marketing company. Signs, slick website, etc but we also had the benefit of time. An extra day makes a big difference with grass roots.
by msuduster on Mar 29, 2011 11:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Has Purdue resorted to panic buying?
Much like an emotional stock that investors are afraid to miss out on, if reports are accurate they’ve offered between $2 and 2.4 million to Painter, I think it’s fair to ask if they’re overpaying.
The fear of losing your head coach can be too much to handle.
Here are some stats culled from H&R posts …
DISCLAIMER I altered the formatting for ease of reading, but it’s word for word
Here is, in order, the annual salary of all the Big Ten basketball coaches for this past season season:
Izzo, Ohio State’s Thad Matta ($2.4 million),
Crean($2.16),
Minnesota’s Tubby Smith ($1.8 million),
Michigan’s John Beilein ($1.6 million),
Illinois’ Bruce Weber ($1.5 million),
Wisconsin’s Bo Ryan ($1.5 million),
Purdue’s Matt Painter ($1.3 million),
Iowa’s Fran McCaffery ($1.1 million),
Northwestern’s Bill Carmody ($1.1 million) and DeChellis.
-
Now here are Matt Painter’s wins and losses since when he took over for Keady.
*From Wikipedia
2006, 9-19
2007, 22-12 / NCAA 2nd Round Exit
2008, 25-9 / NCAA 2nd Round Exit
2009, 27-10 / NCAA Sweet 16 Exit
2010, 29-6 / NCAA Sweet 16 Exit
2011, 26-8 / NCAA Third Round Exit
-
I am not 100% on Izzo’s base, but that looks about right. I think with performance bonuses and other incentives his annual is actually around 3.5 to 4 million. For instance, I think if he’s our coach this year as of June 1st or something he gets $1 million. That was put into his contract a few years ago and was basically deferred compensation. Also, his new base, is just that. Brand new. That was bumped up last year after the whole Cavs thing when Hollis basically put everything on the table and said this is as much as we can pay you, this ain’t the pro’s.
So we’ll go with the H&R Commenter and say Izzo is making $2.4 million as a base for the sake of contrast here.
Izzo, until this past year’s dip, had at least 22 wins a year since 2005-6 and had a Sweet 16 appearance in 2007-8, title game appearance in 08-09, and a final four in 09-10.
Purdue is so scared of losing Painter they’re willing to pay him Izzo money.
I’m not saying he can’t coach. But his credentials probably dictate a salary around $1.6 to $1.7 million as a base no? As great as his teams have been he hasn’t advanced past the Sweet 16. I know one of his stars was hurt, but it doesn’t change the facts. We can play the if and but game all night, but personally it looks like Purdue is frantically shoveling money at a coach who wants administration support. What if they had offered him $1.6 as a base and taken the other $600k and spread it between his assistants, recruiting budget, and towards facility upgrades? As nobody really has all the details it’s very possible they included money figures for all of those things, but I guess we won’t know that until he signs with Purdue (or Mizzou, then the President and AD can throw each other under the bus and we’ll get even more fun facts)
*While we’re on the topic of money, I don’t think Matta has earned his pay either. Great recruiter, a bit lacking in the actual results department. Of course, it’s OSU, and they have more money than they know what to do with so it’s probably not even an issue.
Has a coach ever left his alma mater to accept a position with a school with arguably less historical success?
This is a step down the coaching ladder. Missouri plays in a conference dominated by a single school and has little to show nationally for whatever conference success they have enjoyed (much like Purdue).
With izzo’s quandary last year, at least he was considering a move to the pros. He had experienced success at MSU and while we may have been shocked that he would consider leaving, it was understandable from a professional development standpoint. Painter’s “move” is an “ugh, really” at best. A shared B1G championship and winning the B1G tourney, while laudable aren’t really earth shattering.
Still puzzling. No matter how it shakes out.
st louis post-dispatch
is reporting that Painter is going to Mizzou… but nothing official yet.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/tiger-tracker/article_a136221c-5ae4-11e0-9743-0017a4a78c22.html
that infamous “a source” told us…
Pat Forde
Some folks close to the situation are counseling to apply the brakes to the Post-Dispatch’s Painter-Mizzou story. Nothing official right now
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