Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Owners Vote to Change Trade Deadline

Indiana Keeps (Over)Filling Up With Remy Abell

A story on an Indiana commitment, you say?  Tom Crean appears to have filled his final spot in 2011 with 6’4" combo guard Remy Abell of Louisville.  Abell had previously been signed with Bradley but was released from his letter of intent.

The real story for us is how this might effect Indiana’s recruitment of Gary Harris and, more to the point, if it says anything about Michigan State’s chances with the 2012 elite guard from Fishers, IN.  For Indiana, 2011 is fine and untroublesome.  However, the Hoosiers’ addition of wing guard Jeremy Hollowell in March combined with Abell have already brought their prospective 2012-2013 roster up to fifteen players, two over the thirteen-player scholarship limit.  A verbal from Gary Harris would leave IU over-committed by the imposing number of three.  Indiana would have to deal with this by some combination of transfers, recruits going the JUCO route, and current players going off scholarship.  No matter how it goes down, losing three players prematurely for places besides the NBA is neither pretty or good PR.  Ask MSU.

In most circumstances, an MSU fan might conclude that adding a 6’4" guard suggests that Tom Crean and staff are pessimistic about Gary Harris coming to Indiana or moving on completely.  Boo-hoo for us, this does not appear to be the case and Crean has been recruiting aggressively even as his roster spots fill up.  There’s speculation that they could add yet another 2011 player and the school has expressed interest in various post players including the recently available Percy Gibson.  The traditional rules do not apply here.  I would expect that both Indiana and Michigan State’s pursuit of Harris will continue with gusto through the summer and into the fall. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, the shift in my level of optimism about Gary Harris coming to MSU in response to this news is minimal. 

A little soapbox-ishness after the jump...

Star-divide

I know a lot of MSU fans expressed concern over how it would look and effect the program if Tom Izzo had accepted a public commitment from Gary Harris without it being clear where that scholarship was coming from.  I want to say that I think those sentiments are in the right place.  The addition would have taken the amorphous speculation and converted it into a concrete threat looming over the current roster.  Rumors would have spread and one couldn't ignore that fact that someone (Sherman?, Kearney?, Nix?, Anderson?, oh my!) was on the way out.  Most Michigan State fans pride themselves in having a basketball coach who plays straight while enjoying an exceptional national reputation. Whether fair or not, the talk would have been that Izzo pushed someone out to make room for Harris, causing a small nick on the MSU/Izzo brand.  At least one positive side effect of losing Garrick Sherman on his own terms is that we don’t have to worry about this.

I spend some time on Indiana messageboards/blogs and, generally, I’m glad I’m not in their shoes.  Predictably, the sentiment is all over the place.  Some posters are completely freaked that Indiana might have to edge out nearly a third of their roster to make room for new players.  Others take a "just win, baby" attitude and talk cynically about how various bench guys won't be sticking around.  If I wore the candy stripes, I would definitely be in the former category. High-level college basketball is a cutthroat game and no one, not even Izzo, can play the saint all the time.  Still, I want my coach to do his best to fulfill his commitment to the players he brings in so long as they do the same.  I hear a lot of excuses made that Crean will have to cut some under-performing players because of the state of the Indiana program he inherited after Kelvin Sampson and the dire influence on Crean's ability to recruit.  For me, that influence is part of the punishment and an element of what anyone who took the job was walking into.  I don't know Tom Crean's plan or how strong-armed he'll need to be to make his scholarship numbers jibe but I don't believe he should be given a free pass if it comes down to pushing players out of the program.  Hopefully, that won't be necessary for the Hoosiers and it'll be a credit to Tom Crean if drastic measures can be avoided.  The worst-case scenario of pulling scholarships feels unpleasant to me - an unpleasantness that wouldn't entirely disappear with more victories.  But, because I don't have to worry about any of that, I feel like it's another good day to be a Spartan.  I'm also cool if Garry Harris feels the same.  

Comment 25 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I need some help here....

I don’t understand how Indiana is able to over sign by 3 players or even 4 if they get Gary Harris and make it work? I understand the fact that they need to drop guys in order to make room for the Freshman coming in but how can you just tell guys there off the team because there not good enough?

by mkstock28 on Apr 27, 2011 5:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Let me clarify, mkstock

The first thing I’d clarify is that Indiana is currently not over-signed at all. That only happens when players actually sign their Letters of Intent. The 2012 class will do that in the fall. You are allowed to oversign in basketball by one in the Big Ten so Crean doesn’t really need to worry about of those spots until November. I’m not an expert on this but I imagine a 2012 player could wait to sign until the late period in April 2012 if it’s a problem and allow for more time.

There, theoretically, is no restriction that I know of on how many players can make a public verbal to your school. That’s not binding. Indiana could be over-committed by 100.

The conversations about how Crean will fit all these guys are in are similar to the speculation MSU fans were making about Gary Harris. Players could transfer, a 2012 player could attend a junior college and arrive in 2013, a player might be willing to pay his own way, a football scholarship, etc. The BIG difference is that we were speculating how this might need to work hypothetically for one guy. Indiana might have to pull this offer for real with 2-3 spots.

If making room for new players means getting current players to leave, how you do that and whether you should is the big messy ethical issue I attempt to touch on at the end of my post. Different strokes for different folks in the end.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Apr 27, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Izzo Ramping up the Recruiting

Izzo said he was going to amp up the recruiting after he turned down the Cleveland job and I think were starting to see that. My money would be on Izzo landing Harris and it looks like IU has given up on him. I think it is basically between MSU and Louisville though.

by MSUMC25 on Apr 27, 2011 9:23 PM CDT reply actions  

If I were you, I would wait to see how things shake out before getting all hand-wringy about it. This is the last week of classes at IU and finals are next week. It may be that Crean knows that one or more players is leaving. Also, there have been persistent rumors that Peter Jurkin, a member of the class of 2012 who has missed a bunch of time because of injuries, may reclassify to 2013.

I would hope that IU does not ever get to the point of actually pulling a scholarship. On the other hand, I don’t think there is anything wrong with a coach telling a player that he does not stand to get meaningful playing time and that if he wants to go somewhere where he can see the court, then Crean will help him. Bob Knight did that from time to time. Is that pushing someone out? I don’t think so. I know that some of Knight’s players with whom he had that talk did decide to come back.

Crean knows as well as anyone that something has to give. Remy Abell seems like a nice spring pickup, but will he be be such a positive influence on the 11-12 team that it would justify punting on Gary Harris? I doubt it.

Tom Crean is a successful recruiter in large part because he is good at building relationships with recruits. He has to know that kicking a bunch of kids to the curb unceremoniously will make him look bad to future recruits. I don’t have blind faith in Crean, but I do think he knows what he is doing and has to have considered the risks and benefits of various courses of action. At this point, I don’t think I have enough information to determine exactly what is going on.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Apr 28, 2011 9:01 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree, basically

However, the one rebuttal I’ll make is that you can justify a little more hand-ringing over the need for 2-3 spots. If it was only one, I don’t think we’d be having this conversation.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Apr 28, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

High Stakes Poker

Obviously both coaches know things that we don’t about their players and scholarships.
I don’t see this as reason to jump off a cliff or jump up and down.
Crean is trying to build the strongest team he can for this season while lining up recruits for the future which is what he should be doing if he likes his job.

Meanwhile Mr. Harris may be the strongest player at the table as none of this seems to matter to him. He either knows exactly where he’s going and is waiting patiently for the musical chairs to stop while bluffing everytime he answers the question OR he’s really not that concerned about it right now and will let everybody know as soon as he knows.
If it’s the latter, that would confirm that he is in fact a teenager.

"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar

by spartyball on Apr 28, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing I'll say is that

pulling a scholly from a kid who put in all the practice time, attended all his classes, and did everything else necessary of a teammate and student would be a really shady thing to do. I don’t care if the kid isn’t going to see the court.

If you offered him a scholarship and he does everything expected of a student-althlete, he should be able to stay on scholarship if he decides to stay even though there isn’t much playing time available for him. It shouldn’t matter if you have someone ten times as good coming in, or he just wasn’t as good as you thought, etc. If he wants to stay because he wants a degree from your school, or just dreamed all his life of playing for your school and will accept no substitute, then the scholarship should be his.

I’m not saying that’s what Crean (or anyone else) is doing or going to do. I’m saying that if someone does that, the University should think long and hard about other commitments, such as paying said coach a very generous salary, can also be abrogated without consequences.

by TheCrestedHelm on Apr 28, 2011 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

See: Dahlman, Isaiah

“If he wants to stay because he wants a degree from your school, or just dreamed all his life of playing for your school and will accept no substitute, then the scholarship should be his.”

From what I remember during the last couple years of Dahlman’s career, Izzo actually spoke to him about transferring so he could get more playing time because he knew with the recruits we had coming in, it probably wasn’t going to happen for him. Zeke said thanks but no thanks, because he’d rather be a part of MSU’s program, even if that meant not playing as much. In my opinion, that’s exactly how the situation should have played out. The coach is honest with the kid, the kid takes a good look at his options, and if he chooses to stay, he keeps his scholarship. The issue is whether pressure is put on the kid to transfer or there is a threat to pull the scholarship. I think most would agree that crosses the line.

"You can look at the dinosaur that weighs you down or you can look at the big pot of gold (and) try to say, 'You know what? I'm going to try to live up to expectations.' " -Tom Izzo, Iron Mountain Philosopher

by Ducking Delvon on Apr 28, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brandon Wood

From what I’ve seen people have been saying that he might be a lock to wearing the green and white. Any truth to this?

by mkstock28 on Apr 28, 2011 2:46 PM CDT reply actions  

FinalFourU Twitter

“Welcome Aboard Brandon Wood” Should we believe it?

by mkstock28 on Apr 28, 2011 2:54 PM CDT reply actions  

I think that would be premature

but, yeah, things seem to be looking good.

The guy for ESPN Chicago who handles prep and college sports cited a source that Wood was a heavy MSU lean and, though the whole article is premium, it’s is public over at tRCMB that Wood is visiting soon.

Again, big grain of salt on FinalFourU.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Apr 28, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is one minor detail

He’s still an NBA draft candidate.
Probably best to put any thoughts about Wood until May 8th comes and goes and we know if he’s staying in the draft or not.

"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar

by spartyball on Apr 28, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

but he could decide that he wasn’t happy with his draft status and pull out this hour if he wanted to. I view it as one option amongst many. I don’t necessarily think we’ll have to wait that long.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Apr 28, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

FinalFourU isn't a reliable source...

best I can tell he’s sort of a joke over on the RCMB.

by MooTheKow on Apr 28, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harris

Notes on the RCMB that Harris is no longer a target of Louisville coaches, and is Big Ten Bound. I would think odds are stongly in our favor at this point, with the difference in schollie situation, indiana may even be cooling on him, Crean obviously has a flavor towards “1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush” with all these early commits he has been seeking, he may not want to wait until spring of 12 to wait for decision on Harris.

This is all speculative/uncredited posting and should be taken as discussion points of a hopeful fan.

by spartyCPA on Apr 29, 2011 12:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Someone mentioned that on Twitter, re: Harris and Louisville splitting

No idea if there’s anything to it.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Apr 29, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harris

IU has and will continue to ramp up it’s recruitment of Harris. Those thinking IU is out of it and or MSU is in the lead, those are only pipe dreams. IU’s numbers will work out. Hulls, if necessary, will pay his own way and has offered to do so. Jurkin will re-classify to 2013. And last but certainly not least, one/two players will transfer. Transfers happen, it’s part of the game. There has been over +350 division one players that have transferred this past season alone.

by Mike Schmidt on Apr 29, 2011 4:03 PM CDT reply actions  

NO!

I won’t accept it.

by stankyleg on Apr 29, 2011 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel like Mike Schmidt is biased

as are we but seriously, Harris is thinking hard about this i guarantee its hurt them

by Loneytunes on Apr 30, 2011 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I Agree

I just don’t understand why Gary Harris would want to go to Indiana after all of the recruits Crean has got I mean that’s a lot of playing time to spread out. I understand that Gary is close and good friends with a lot of the Indiana recruits but in the end the decision should be about him

by mkstock28 on Apr 30, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A Michigan State basketball and football blog community

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Help the Big 10 represent and beat the SEC!
Small
Boise State 2012 Preview
Dawson-michigan-state-600x370_small
The Double Standard in SI's Power Rankings
Dawson-michigan-state-600x370_small
Adreian not Bringing the Payne?
Delvonduck_small
MSU Spring Game Fantasy Contest!
Small
Thank Goodness Adreian Payne is OK
200_small
You're a mean one, Mr. Ryan
Small
Snapper Signing Hits the Double Bonus
Small
Derrick Nix arrested and suspended
Sparty_statue2_small
You Better Believe I'll Take It

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Petenewpic_small Pete Rossman

Spiritofd_small LVS

Contributors

Square_sun_small Steve Hendershot

Marvin_small SpartanDan

State_small Con-T

Adorno5_small intrpdtrvlr

Ph2_small patrick_hayes

Spartan_troll_face_2_small HeckDorland

Mug_vanini_chris__2__small ChrisVannini