Derrick Walton to U-M (An MSU Perspective)
Yesterday, 2013 MSU basketball target Derrick Walton committed to Michigan. First, I want to stress that I have no interest in one of those intolerable "sour grapes" posts – the ones where Team A’s recruiting target picks Team B so Team A’s writer goes on and grumpily diminishes the whole thing. Ugh. No thanks. Derrick Walton is an outstanding rising junior, considered by many the state’s No. 1 point guard. Walton is a great pick-up for Michigan and Coach Beilein will use his skills to be a pain against MSU over four years. It’s clear MSU scouted him carefully with Walton on the verge of an MSU offer. He may have received that full invitation had he waited, leading to reactions from Spartan basketball fans in the range of satisfied to very excited. I myself was a proponent and enjoyed Walton's passing and court vision. The fact that he was building a reputation as a scorer during a successful summer was icing on the cake. Exciting addition for the Wolverines; no doubt.
That said, when a player of interest commits to your rival before you’re confident enough to offer, it can’t be considered a disaster. The ending of Derrick Walton’s recruitment is a hint on how MSU is playing the 2012-2014 classes. Despite the well-deserved hype around the 2013 in-state guard class, MSU has been aggressive in other directions and may ultimately pass on a 2013 point guard. The most obvious evidence is Michigan State offering a 2014 ball-handler ahead of anyone in the previous class. Tyus Jones (ranked #9 overall by ESPN) of Minnesota had a great summer and added Michigan State to his list of offers. Considering he's on the record as a long-time State fan, MSU is in good position on this one. MSU has also been watching other 2014 point guards like Jaquan Lyle, who stated his opinion that MSU might offer soon after a recent visit. The conventional reaction is correct on this - the staff looks comfortable with Appling, Trice, and Valentine into 2014 when they could land a big-time freshman PG. Another point guard from the 2013 class is not a necessity.
Of course, this is fluid, and MSU may have been right on the verge of making a serious play for Walton. Also, the coaching staff is still watching 2013 Mishawaka point Demetrius Jackson who some believe to be superior to anyone in the Mitten State class. It will be interesting to see if the absence of Walton as an option shifts things. Does another point guard now get more attention? Jackson? Monte Morris? D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera? Or does Izzo continue to look ahead at '14? Coaches are off the road from the evaluation period and that's a prime time to refine recruiting priorities and make decisions with new information.
The upshot for Michigan State is that when you can hold off on offering a player like Derrick Walton only to lose him to a rival and still not have a major cause for concern, it's a testament to where your program and its recruiting have risen. So, again, great recruiting week for UM. "Boo-yah" to them, but, as Pete and others have suggested, there's more prospects like Jabari Parker, Drake Harris, Tyus Jones, Gary Harris, and James Young who should help to keep Michigan State's future recruiting success a likely proposition.
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Well said
I’ve always thought there is enough talent for both teams to be strong.
Especially enough talent considering all the basketball talent we keep stealing from
…Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin, and pretty soon Illinois.
On a personal note, I would much rather have a rivalry with Michigan, where they are good and sometimes beat us, than a lopsided one where we always beat them year in and year out. It is much for fun to play them and makes the rivalry mean something when they are a threat and are capable of beating you any given day, take last season for example.
My own opinion though, if we get our top 6 recruits over the next 3 classes, Michigan, Indiana, OSU and any other school in the Big Ten, will have trouble keeping up with MSU for year s to come.
UM Recruiting
Last year, Beilein got great results out of players who weren’t “big-time” recruits, a few top 40-70 guys and some 75-150 type players. Really, he’s continued that recruiting model in his recent classes. Walton, in part because I know his game better than guys like Nick Staukas, is the first guy Beilein picked up that I at all coveted upon committing. The lack of an MSU offer (and it’s legitimately possible that MSU was going to move-on) is a decent face-saver for us but UM got a good one.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
UM has done well at overachieving...
Developing their players, finding kids that excel in their system and exploiting there skills, and getting their players to play tough and together(Something they haven’t had for a while). For the first time in while last year, all the teammates bought in I think. They are still one to watch out for, even after losing Morris.
Probably just sounds like typical MSU fan UM-Hating...
but why is UM a team to watch out for? They beat MSU’s worst team in a decade twice and padded the games around that with wins against other big ten bottom-feeders? Why was equaling what pretty much everyone considered a very poor-to-mediocre season for MSU something that indicates they are a team to watch out for? Don’t mean to specifically be coming after you SpartyCPA — but it seems like a pretty widely held thought which I just really don’t understand.
I think it has to do with the fact
that UM was the “youngest” team in the big ten last year. They relied heavily on freshmen (Hardaway, Morgan, and Smotrycz) It has been shown that there are significant jumps in production from freshman to sophomore in hoops. If similar jumps take place, then Michigan will be good.
by Maceo Baston on Aug 2, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Believe it when I see it.
Morris is a massive loss and Morgan got over half his points off of Morris feeds. Burke will require an adjustment period, like Morris did. That was Darius Morris’ show and he is gone. We’ll see.
by rook34 on Aug 2, 2011 10:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
One can see...
That scUM has risen from bottom Feeder to Mediocrity, despite being young and fairly small with good but not elite talent. To lose one player I believe the rest of the squad plus the incoming class at least makes up for the loss of Morris. Just because MSU lost Kalin Lucas means they will be worse this year? I actually think MSU will be better this year then last, despite losing its best player. Belien is a smart coach and will figure out what works with the guys he has, they have moved past the bad seeds that were IMO keeping their program back and are definitely on a upward slide, and I see that momentum carrying them to more(relative) success in 2011-12. But as with all the speculation on these discussions, We shall see… By the way if you don’t remember they beat us twice last year, that alone keeps them as a team we should watch out for.
if the player they were replacing was anyone but the point guard...
I would agree with you. In that system, the PG is everything. Morris was not particularly good as a freshman, and he was more highly ranked than Burke. And sure, UM beat MSU twice, but an MSU team that had two of its top six players dismissed from the team. And don’t worry. Izzo is most certainly “looking out” for Michigan.
In agreement with rook
I imagine that it will take more adjusting to life without Morris than people realize. And as for how much hype UM is getting this preseason, one tournament win and zero marquee regular season wins isn’t anything remarkable. More of a step in the right direction from where their program was before.
I do agree that morris is a huge loss
But weren’t we all saying the same thing about Manny Harris last year? There was no way they’d make the tourney again because they lost their best player by far, then Morris stepped up and filled that role, probably did it even better from a team standpoint. Not necessarily my opinion, but something to think about.
No Way
You’re right on they go 9-9 in the Big Ten and win a tournament game and now everyone has them rated above us going into next year, and a Big Ten title contender. Last time I checked you don’t win any banners for a single tournament win.
The corrosive element / sense of entitlement are gone last years team (GOOD BYE SUMMERS). Not to mention we lost two starters one before the year and one during and still managed to make the tourney.
Izzo wasn’t looking into he NBA this summer. It’s Draymond’s team he’ll be the single vocal leader and we’ll be hungry something they weren’t last year. I think we are going to surprise some people and I can’t wait!
Wait
Last time I checked you don’t win any banners for a single tournament win.
Don’t they essentially do this at the Kohl Center?
Tonight's going to be a good night.
by Spartalytical on Aug 2, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yep, a lot like Izzo in his own way
I still hear from opposing fans how underwhelming some of our 2011-2012 recruiting is but am I going to bet against Izzo when he basically got almost all his Plan A guys? No way. Izzo got the right guys for his program and his team.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Hey Intrpdtrvlr....
Is the underwhelmed tones you are hearing more recent or are they in the beginning of the classes from 2011-12? I think all the players Izzo has accepted commitments from have improved dramatically in the eyes of recruiting sites over the last 18 months, with classes ranked either in the top 5 or at least top 20? Not doubting what you hear, just wondering when you may have heard it. I would be interested in gauging the pulse of spartan nation on this issue. i am more with you, I love these kids.
Eh, I've been spending too much time debating with Indiana fans.
Same people who think Beilein “beat” Izzo for Zak Irvin.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Just like the Hoosier basketball program...
You will never win.
by spartyCPA on Aug 2, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Most MSU fans have never even heard of Zak Irvin
Jabari Parker? Yes. Drake Harris? Yes.
With that said I’m pretty disappointed by this. I figured Walton was going to go Green for sure. Oh well, I guess he did not want to wait and MSU wasn’t willing to settle until they were sure on who they wanted.
by That Guy Green on Aug 2, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That's me
I’m not a die hard recruiting fanatic like some folks out there, but I read pretty much every article on this site, which keeps my knowledge of recruits higher than the average fan. Having said that. I have never heard of Zak Irvin. Has he been discussed on this site in the past? I was in Europe for 3 weeks in June so i may have missed it.
by RewertsSpartan on Aug 3, 2011 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Irvin? Don't think so
He’s on the Hotlist and had some MSU interest in part because he plays with Gary Harris. With all the wing talent at MSU and players like Parker and Young, Irvin probably wasn’t getting an MSU offer anytime soon.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
I'm with you on this...
I love it when the Big Ten is formidable across the board. It pains me to see Iowa, Indiana or even Michigan completely bottom out (even when it is deserved), since it hurts the brand and I’ve come to care about the brand. Maybe it’s because I’ve moved out of B10 country for the first time in a decade or more, but I’ve become more fiercely protective of the style and swagger of the conference. Plus, of course, I’m convinced that running the gauntlet of B10 home courts is what makes us such a tough out in the tourney.
Congrats to UM, but as intrpdtrvir makes clear, we’re clearly not in any kind of panic about this one.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Aug 2, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
By next 6 recruits I mean...
2012 G Harris
2013 J Parker, T. Hamilton, J. Young/EC Matthews
2014 Okafer, Drake Harris, Jaquan Lyle/Tyus Jones.
T. Hamilton/Okafer I believe is an Either/Or but not both scenario(Would love to have both, but trying to be realistic here.
This is what would continue to make us a tough out, assuming all these kids are Izzo qualified, of which I am not qualified to speak, but I think we all have that impression they are.
Only thing, CPA
I would bet against another 2012 recruit plus a three-man 2013 class. There might be attrition that makes that possible but I don’t think it’ll happen in time to do so. Someone has to give.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
I am betting on one early draftee before the 2013 class recruiting is done...
But to take 3 would require 2 early leavers.(affter getting Harris.)
With Parker measuring....
Almost 6’9" now, and a little trimmed down and more athletic, I believe he will be recruited to start at the 4 with the ability to play the 3, and if he commits, I would believe we would be done recruiting bigs for 2013. And Hamilton would get squeezed not because we don’t want him, but because of scholarships available.
Not so sure we can steal from Illinois
At least not in Chicago.
I just a read an article about Dee Brown, I didn’t realize he was close to committing to MSU but when push came to shove he couldn’t leave the state. That was Self not Weber but still. The Jalen James commitment was telling.
If Parker doesn’t end up at Duke or Washington, I’d be stunned if he gets away from Illinois.
I almost wish Coach Izzo would give up on Chicago though I admire his persistence.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
Parker
is kind of a funny recruit to watch. MSU’s fan-base and Illinois’ fan-base both seem to think they have some really good shot at landing the kid – but really – how often do recruits like this turn down Duke to go to either of those schools? Sounds like it’d be phenomenal if he came to MSU — but my gut tells me MSU’s actual chances of landing the kid are between slim and none.
If you don't try
you never will beat out Duke. MSU has enough credentials and final fours that it SHOULD compete with Duke for certain players. The reason Duke has more pros helps it get more players with that potential. The fact that MSU hasn’t produced a star NBA player since Richardson and Randolph hurts them, and they need to have a couple high draft pick type players. Parker could be him.
Duke vs. MSU
It’s been a long time since they went seriously head-to-head for a recruit. I don’t think prior histories tell you much at this point. Anyone’s recruitment.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
True...
…but I’m sure an MSU fan somewhere talked about how we didn’t have a chance of landing Delvon Roe since UNC was after him.
Re: Recruiting Chicago
As much as anything I think his chase of Parker is a way to show the Chicago coaches he’s ready to get “in the game” as it were. I recall reading an article that intimated that recruiting Chicago had its own code of conduct. I’m not saying anything shady, but you really have to be down there a lot and show the coaches you’re serious. It’s almost like Coach D rolling through Detroit and showing the coaches there he wasn’t just giving lip service to get a player, he had a serious intent to make an impact.
Basketball recruiting is a bit different
Especially in Chicago where the AAU and high school coaches are part of some kind of Prop Joe-Stringer Bell type co-op or something. Coach Izzo’s not in their circle. Oliver Purnell coaches at a city university and I don’t think he’s even in the circle yet.
It would take a lot of time and even with the MSU G6 at his disposal, he can’t be everywhere. That’s where Illinois has the advantage. Bruce Weber doesn’t have to constantly be in the city. He’s got a well connected assistant in Jerrance Howard that’s in the circle.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
TAKE THAT IZZO!!
Ohhh wait… Nvm
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Aug 2, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
Derrick Walton is good, but MSU is "turning the corner" on recruiting.
First of all, let me say that Michigan got a good recruit in Derrick Walton. Congratulations.
But…
When Izzo flirted with the NBA and chose “MSU for life,” I believe he made a decision that he wanted to go down as one of the best college coaches ever. He decided, at that moment, that he was going to win at least one more NCAA Championship. In order to do that, he knows he needs mega-recruits (makes it easier at the very least).
I’m not denying that Izzo has a model, and specific players that he recruits, but in order to go from Final Four appearances, to winning two more games, he knows that he needs to go from great recruits to big tyme recruits. Derrick Walton is a great recruit, but Izzo has his eye on the top 40. Players like DSR, Drake Harris, Tyus Jones, and Gary Harris.
Now I’m not one of those guys who believe that recruit rankings are everything. I also know that coaches don’t look at those rankings (however, as a fan, it’s hard not to) . Izzo is going after players that fit his mold and coaching style, but those players are no longer the 12th or 15th best PG in the nation, but the 2nd or 5th best (with his target players still fitting his style). That’s why Derrick Walton wasn’t offered, because Izzo has built his program into “elite” status, and can afford to wait for those mega-recruits and pass on the Waltons, with a realistic chance of landing who he wants.
Just my opinion.
Just to follow-up… I’m not saying Izzo won’t offer “lesser” recruits… I’m arguing that he will have a slightly higher average recruit ranking. He will get his Denzel Valentines (under the radar recruit with not much national recruiting spotlight, relatively speaking), but he will get his studs too… and more so now than he did in the past.
Also
I think Walton’s perceived lack of enthusiasm probably made a big impact on MSU and delayed the offer. He basically said so. It’s not only about “elite” players. Izzo doesn’t minds players taking their time (Gary Harris) but he wants to feel some passion and energy about the idea of being a Spartan. If D. Walton didn’t have that, maybe this result is best for both sides.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Also of Importance to the Walton recruiting situation
“Cha Cha” Tucker’s dad, Charles Tucker, was/is Steve Smith and Mateen’s agent and is a big State fan. He and Izzo are good friends as well. It will be interesting to see if Cha Cha gets an MSU offer.
I really disagree with most of you here..
Not sure Izzo wanted Walton 100% but from what I read it sounds like they never offered to him because they weren’t so sure that he wanted to come to MSU. They thought he had doubts.
So… with his Verbal to UofM I think we can piece together that Walton had somewhat already decided on UofM and MSU could tell, thus… they didn’t offer.
Coming from Rivals.com
“I have been talking to Derrick Walton,” Valentine said. “If they offer him he is going to come. That is what he said, so hopefully they offer him and he comes.”
I guess I was basing my opinion on this article I read on Rivals. I do agree with you a bit though.
Definitely a good get for UofM
intrpdtrvlr, have you heard any rumblings about Drake Harris committing soon? I’ve read some stuff on forums, but I’m not sure how much stock to put into it.
There were rumblings but it's been quiet
I think the hope is still that he’s a Spartan before the end of the summer. Even Keith Appling, who was near a Spartan lock, took a little bit of time in committing once he received his offer. This might be similar.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Who would you guess would be the next to commit?
From any class. Handicap this thing for us. Basically I’m asking you to predict the thoughts of 16-17 year old kids you don’t know. But it will make me feel better.
by That Guy Green on Aug 2, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha, funny
However, I think that’s an easy one. Based on the limited numbers of players with offers and their respective timetables, I definitely think Drake Harris is the safe bet. Not only would I roll the dice on him deciding before G. Harris, I’m more confident that Drake chooses MSU. No indication that anyone else with an MSU offer is deciding soon or that MSU is on the doorstep of offering someone new.
Now, watch me be wrong about all that.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
Good for them, Good for the conference
The rivalry will certainly get hotter. That’s a good thing.
It looks like they’ll be really good the next few years as will Indiana.
That means at least half the league will be projected as tournament teams every year.
The conference RPI goes up, strength of schedule goes up for all and we could start seeing 7-8 teams dancing every year.
"the game is out there, and it's play or get played. That simple" - Omar
yep
i hope he gets 4 years of injury-free, .500 basketball. i also hope he goes 0-for his career against msu.
by TheChosenOne30 on Aug 2, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions

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