Interview with Notre Dame Blog One Foot Down
by Pete Rossman on Sep 15, 2011 5:30 AM CDT
in Michigan State Spartans Football
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I've been in attendance for both of Notre Dame's games this year, so rough is an understatement. There were certainly high expectations going into this season, so its disappointing to see the season begin the way it has. I'm not really one to make excuses, but the Irish have had all kinds of bad luck. Untimely red zone turnovers and Gary Gray's worst game of his career are sitting between Notre Dame and a perfect record. But it is what it is, and there's still plenty of football to play. And a win against Sparty would certainly help right the ship.
2. Notre Dame leads the FBS in turnovers so far (sorry to bring that up). How many have been caused by flukes or weird bounces, and how many can be attributed to genuine mistakes by the offense?
It's split almost evenly between flukes and mistakes in my opinion. The INT off of TJ Jones's face mask against USF, Rees's fumbles USF and UM, and Cierre Wood's fumble against Michigan when he ran into the back of a lineman could probably all be counted as flukes. And then Jonas Gray's fumble against South Florida can probably be credited as an outstanding defensive play to rip the ball out. It's hard to call all of them flukes because they keep happening, but I'm not sure what the coaches can do about it. Now, Rees's interceptions are more genuine. He has a habit of staring down Michael Floyd and throwing it into double coverage, but I can't say I blame him. Floyd has been huge so far and I'd rather have my quarterback try to get the ball to his playmaker than ignore him (*cough*Crist!*cough*). But his decision making needs to improve. These turnovers are taking years off my life.
3. We know Manti Te'o is a wrecking ball. Give us the name of another defensive player MSU should be highly concerned about.
4. How has the offense looked this year besides the Crist/Rees to Floyd parts?
5. Lastly, there's a game on Saturday! Tell us how you think it'll play out and your prediction.
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On number....
….five, we haven’t shown it yet, but I bet this is the game we pull some Martin/Nichol/Lippett wildcat plays.
Been Waiting...
…for a Cousins throw to Nichol then throw down field play for 2 years. Seems too obvious for it not to have happened yet.
by ChicagoSpartan on Sep 15, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
37
ND to score 37 points on a defense that only gave up 48 yards last week? And 6 points on the season? Wishful thinking metal head.
It’s not just turnovers that is ruining ND. They’ve had 17 penalties in two games (103 in country). They’ve made terrible coaching decisions (RUN THE F’ing BALL KELLY!!!) and have been the prototype on how NOT to tackle. This and the obvious mental breakdowns on assignments and basics. (Hail Mary, big plays, looking back for the ball) This team has much bigger issues than a few “flukey” turnovers. To put it plainly, ND bought into the hype machine that is ND and really it’s just not good.
If MSU loses this game, they have no one but themselves to blame. MSU is a better team. No one can convince me otherwise.
that's a bold statement.
i don’t fault the guy for hoping the turnovers end and ND gets an important home win. it’s not implausible. but a 13 point win really stretches credulity. if ND wins, it’ll be close. but his prediction sounds something like the enlightened spartan.
I was checking out their blog
and found this gem from their game preview;
In a lot of ways, this Michigan State defense is very similar to Michigan’s in that they have one really good defensive tackle surrounded by a few other decent linemen. The difference for the Spartans is that they are a little more athletic at the linebacker and secondary positions. Still, Michigan’s defensive line was largely ineffective against the Irish offensive line, so State will have a lot of work to do.
To even mention our defense in the same breath as Michigans is just crazy talk.
another gem
Further a Spartan defense that has 7 new starters and is without a couple of their best defenders of the past decade, can’t be much better than what USF and Michigan had to offer. I think this is a sizable advantage for Notre Dame.
I hope the ND coaches are underestimating our defense as much as these guys.
Amazing
It’s amazing that I never cease to be amazed at the level of self-delusion and arrogance, despite seeing this same nonsense year after year. Just as a reminder, we’re 10-4 against them in the last 14, including 6-1 at Jesus Stadium.
"You can look at the dinosaur that weighs you down or you can look at the big pot of gold (and) try to say, 'You know what? I'm going to try to live up to expectations.' " -Tom Izzo, Iron Mountain Philosopher
by Ducking Delvon on Sep 15, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
WHAAAAAAAH?
They’re arguing that the remnants of a GERG defense and one that just left a crater where FAU’s offense used to be (yes, insert disclaimer about how FAU’s offense is not very good … ONE bloody first down, for crying out loud!) are “very similar”?
There truly are no limits to people’s capacity for self-delusion, are there?
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I'm 34 y/o, 220, bald, and just chipped my front tooth
Yet I still think I’ve got it.
Sometimes self-delusion is all you’ve got . . .
Yeah, we're not going to lose by 13
Nor are we giving up 37 points to that joke of an offense (that means they would drive within at least FG range 7 times over the course of the game).
They really are delusional.
The difference
The only difference between UM fans and ND fans is that UM fans feel that they have an inherent right to be entitled and arrogant and that ND fans think that God has ordained them to be entitled and arrogant.
by hawks22gk on Sep 15, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Nice
I’m an ND fan and blogger, but I’ll give it to you, this was a good one. I appreciate you distinguishing us from Michigan fans.
Mouth Of The South
by Mouth of the South on Sep 16, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Their offense is talented
You don’t put up 500 yards against two BCS teams if you can’t move the ball. However, we have the best defense they’ve faced so far and I think it’s pretty unlikely they put up 37 on us.
This
And even if they get it together on offense as far as turnovers, our offense is pretty damn good at QB and the skill positions. If the oline can be okay, we’ll score a lot of points against them.
by witless chum on Sep 15, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
They may well move the ball, but 1) our defense is substantially better than either of their two prior opponents, and 2) if Michigan ‘08-’09 taught us anything, it’s that turnover issues can easily be systemic problems (and thus I remain somewhat skeptical that the gun they keep aiming at their foot is out of bullets).
Frankly, based on what I saw of the Michigan-ND game, if we cover Floyd well I’m not even sure they’ll move the ball. Rees’s progression seemed to be:
1) Floyd
2) Floyd
3) Floyd
4) Floyd
5) Floyd
6) OH GOD THROW IT AWAY
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Yeah, this sounds about right
The only caveat I’d make is it seems like every six throws Rees has the sense to actually throw the ball away. He was trying to force it to Floyd in triple-coverage at times!
"if we cover Floyd well"
The problem is, that is a pretty big “if”.
I honestly think their offense is going to be effective and score quite a few points on us. The question is, can we do the same, and can we win the turnover battle? It’s almost cliche at this point, but I think a lot of this is going to come down to our o-line. There are three new guys on there who have never faced a defense of ND’s caliber. Can they make some holes to get our running game going? Can they keep the heat off of Cousins so that he isn’t forced into some mistakes?
I honestly could go either way on this, but because I’m a fan I’d say I’m “cautiously optimistic”. I’d put the over/under at 50+ and expect it to be a close game. Spartans take it by a field goal!
I wasn't aware a Big East team and a Michigan defense were considered BCS-quality
Well, okay, technically they’re BCS-quality. Because they’re members of the BCS conferences.
But this week’s gonna be two or three tiers up from what kind of defense the Irish have faced the past two contests.
Between M & ND defenses,
How many of those players would even crack MSU’s 2-deep?
On M, Mike Martin could definitely start next to Jerel, and Jordan “the tackling machine” Kovacs could MAYBE be a 2nd string nickel back.
On ND, well, idk, apparently their LBs are more experienced than MSU’s, but for some reason or another, I don’t remember them doing a thing against M. FWIW, One Foot Down still thinks Gary Gray is all-world, and prepared to shut down MSU’s all time leading WR, the whole 3 TDs on him vs M notwithstanding.
All I hear about Manti Te'o is how incredible he is
And it’s a good thing I hear that, because if I were just watching game film to analyze him, I’d see nothing to make me think he’s any better than average.
It sure is nice of the media to have our backs on this! Otherwise, we’d be left in the dark on a player who isn’t actually that good!
This is what that ND blog predicted in their latest "im just going to spew out crap" post
If there is a team due for a win it is Notre Dame. They will finally take care of the ball and surprise a lot of people with a slightly comfortable victory.
Notre Dame 41
Michigan State 24
HAHAHAHAHAHA. right….
OR - they'll surprise everyone by surprising nobody at all
And continue to be their masochistic, self-destructive selves.
um...
you guys got beaten, plain and simple.
"I asked for Shaq. They gave me Shackleford."
www.whereisbenrivera.com
by Dave Rueter on Sep 17, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Over the last 2 decades...
Has any Irish fan/blogger been anywhere near realistic? I’d like to think that, while optimistic, Spartan fans around here realize that we’re not going to necessarily have a better record than last year because of our tough schedule, but at least we’ll be good.
I feel like they just don’t get it at all. The last few times Notre Dame has beaten us they have been close games (within a touchdown). It took a young Kirk Cousins interception in the endzone after he just missed a wide open BJ Cunningham on the previous play for us to lose to Notre Dame in 2009. Otherwise its a 4 game winning streak.
Do they really think their defense is that great when it can’t even find the lame duck passes that Denard HAD to lob (you know, because he lacks any kind of arm strength at all)? Have they not seen what Kirk and BJ have been able to do, let alone Baker and Bell? This game will be close just because its in South Bend, but I have confidence that our boys will come to play hard-nosed and defiant against the Fighting Lassies.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
Second sentence
I meant to say that “at least we aren’t overconfident and arrogant enough that we believe that we’ll beat ND by 13 points.”
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
You're right.
I’m overconfident and arrogant enough to predict a 21 point win. 31-10.
These past two weeks Notre Dame has reminded me of the early RR days at Michigan, when they alternated between potent/comical on the offensive side of the ball. Also, Denard didn’t beat the Irish b/c of the run threat, he beat them because the Irish secondary is just plain bad.
The only thing that seriously worries me is the threat the NBC broadcast team poses to my sanity.
by Milton58 on Sep 15, 2011 9:37 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just remember,
Fan is short for fanatic. And clearly, a certainn fan base for this weekend’s matchup is a bit more fanatical than the other.
This game will come down to one thing
Mental breakdowns.
ND will be hungry coming into this game, no doubt about it. But, if MSU comes in and forces a 3-and-out, and then scores on their first drive, I think ND will feel the sky falling and start making mistakes. However, if MSU gives them a chance to feel like they can win the game, then this game will be hard fought.
Don’t beat the Irish. Make the Irish beat themselves.
Well they are experts at beating themselves
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 15, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
If they can't beat us on the field,
Perhaps they can beat us off.
by MSUDersh on Sep 15, 2011 1:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Turn-Overs and Luck
This was another thread from last season, but calling turnovers lucky or unlucky is (to some degree) naive.
A lot of coaching goes into avoiding turnovers and if you’re giving up this many it’s because your coaches aren’t communicating well or you players aren’t getting it or just aren’t that good.
ND will turn the ball over this weekend, I’m predicting 3 times (minimum)
I love how the fact that they haven't played one yet
means that that they match up well with a “pro-style” offense with an accurate drop-back passer. Because why? Well, because sucking against a “dual threat” QB = success against a drop back passer. And the fact that MSU has played excellent D so far is evidence that they’re like Michigan, only with more skill and athleticism at LB and in the secondary. Yes, and a Ford Mustang is like a Pinto, only it has a little more muscle under the hood.
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 15, 2011 11:26 AM CDT reply actions
If you suck against an inaccurate, weak-armed athlete playing quarterback
Surely, you’ll be light out against an accurate, strong-armed NFL-caliber quarterback!
There is no way this could end poorly for the Irish!
Oh and this is off topic but
Detroit Tigers = Awesome right now.
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 15, 2011 11:33 AM CDT reply actions
MSU 34 ND 28
"The open threads on game days are like fevered dreams: Everyone is hammered and then shit gets burned." - Truffle Shuffle
by The Ghost of John Hannah on Sep 15, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions
I feel compelled to respond to some comments here
Because there’s a lot of mud being thrown around.
Your defense is not like Michigan’s in totality, but in the sense that you have one rising star at defensive tackle and not many household names besides that. No matter how much you want to think this is me saying your defense is poor—-it’s not. And I think that was pretty clear. I think it’s obvious that we respect your defense and believe they are good.
I think it’s pretty poor taste to call anything written in our preview delusional. You think it’s delusional for us to pick ND by 16? You’re not even favored in this game! In fact, you’re a sizable underdog, especially given the rivalry.
We had plenty of nice things to say about MSU—-but of course no one has brought those things up. And yes, we do match up a lot better against your offense (even though it is likely to be the best we’ve faced). If you want to debate that be my guest.
I mean, I see a lot of comments here acting like State’s defense is flat out awesome. That’s not delusional? Should we pop in the tape from the last time you played a BCS team? Should we pop in the tape from last year’s ND game too? You lost a lot of starters from last year, and yes you have some really good young players, but it’s not delusional to think that the Irish will be able to move the ball and score a lot when we did it last year.
And our offense is terrible?
The same offense that has played two BCS teams and is averaging 510 yards per game and is 13th in total offense? Huh?
I’m seeing comments here that are 10X worse than anything in the OFD preview. Spare me the insults of arrogance when you don’t agree with every single word printed on our site.
This rivalry is way too good for that and trust me, we have a ton of respect for Michigan State. We just think this is going to be our break out game.
Sky rockets in flight.
Not sure when RCMB invaded The Only Colors...
But I agree with you for the most part. As I said above, there are a lot of guys on the team that haven’t faced an opponent of ND’s quality yet, and we’re going to find out how well they handle it. I think that ND having two tough games to start the year is going to work very well in their favor (not that they needed it since like, 19 guys are returning starters right?)
That being said though, the part that made me spit out my coffee a little bit was the predicted score, and I think that might have been what got everyone so riled up. 13 point favorites? I think you might get to 30-something points due to your ferocious offensive line and our bad matchups with Michael Floyd, but you really think you will outscore us by that much? Virtually nobody else in the world is predicting a score difference that big in either direction. Vegas is only giving you 4.5, and even with that line the guys at Solid Verbal are picking the game as the “lock of the week” in favor of Michigan State.
Given your record this season, and your record against us in the recent past (especially your record at home!) it is bold but understandable to predict that ND gets it together, doesn’t cough up a million turnovers, and pulls out a win against MSU, but predicting they run away with it does sound a bit like hubris at after an 0-2 start when ND fans were expected to finally be a bit humble.
Is it really that strange for a fan to think his team will win?
The BCS hopes were a bit overblown and probably out the window now, but this is a good Notre Dame team that lost to MSU in overtime last year on the road. Notre Dame has played well enough to win against two decent BCS conference teams. MSU has played a FCS school and a Sun Belt school so it’s hard to tell how good your team is. I think we’ll win. You don’t. That’s how fandom works.
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
No, it's not
I just had to quibble with the assessment that your D matches up better with a pro-style offense. There’s no empirical evidence to say either way because you haven’t played one yet. Maybe you’re right, but then maybe you’re wrong. To treat that as a certainty seems a wee bit optimistic.
I would point to the fact that you gave up 338 passing yards to a QB who throws wounded ducks more often than not as reasonable cause for concern. Our receivers are as skilled as U of M’s, and our QB is much more accurate. Yet your game analysis seems to assume that Cousins won’t be able to pick apart your secondary, when Denard Robinson put up impressive numbers heaving balls up for grabs.
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 16, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you mean to say
Our receivers (including tight ends) areasmuch more skilled and deeperasthan U of M’s
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Sep 16, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I would say that
except I really don’t know much about UM’s receivers and tight ends. They’re complete unknowns to me except what I saw on Saturday. I didn’t want to say ours were better when I really have no idea what they have – but I’m willing to take your edits.
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 16, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
We do match up better with your offense
That doesn’t necessarily mean ND can or will shut the MSU offense down though.
We run a 3-4, with three 300+ pound defensive linemen. Those big boys up front are built to stop power running teams, not speedy mobile quarterbacks.
Due to playing these mobile QB’s, the Irish haven’t been able to blitz much at all, for fear of losing contain and giving up a big play on the ground. Specifically against UM, the Irish had one, and sometimes two, players spying Robinson.
That often left our corners on an island, like Gray was for all of the game.
Now, ND can focus on stopping the run against a more traditional power running team. This isn’t opinion…this is the strength of the ND defense. Without a super athletic QB, now ND can blitz a little bit more, and also drop more linebackers into coverage and help out in the passing game too.
This will be the toughest offense we’ve faced, but schematically it’s a matchup we would prefer.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
We'll have to agree to disagree
I just don’t see how a team that just gave up 338 passing yards to a team with a QB that takes forever to make reads, and then throws inaccurately once he decides where to go with the ball, improves its chances by playing a team with an accurate QB who has multiple quality targets. If scrambles out of the backfield are your achilles heel we can always run Baker on draws.
by TheCrestedHelm on Sep 16, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m under no illusions that our defense is the best in the country – the performance against FAU was flat-out ridiculous, but I don’t think that’s going to be our consistent level (honestly, I don’t think LSU could consistently put together a defensive performance that good, and their defense is a lot better than ours). But it’s certainly capable of being pretty damn good, and a comparison to Michigan’s defense (which, best I can tell, has either nowhere near the talent we have or a lingering case of GERGitis) that says “very similar, except slightly more athletic at linebacker and secondary” smacks either of 1) a lot more respect for Michigan’s defense than appears to be warranted, or 2) some serious wishful thinking.
And our offense is terrible?
The same offense that has played two BCS teams and is averaging 510 yards per game and is 13th in total offense? Huh?
Yards mean precisely jack if they don’t translate into points, as you should be well aware by now. If you manage to cut down on the turnovers, that offense is going to be scary, yes – but Michigan fans were telling themselves the same thing the past couple years early in the season. Teams that commit a lot of unforced turnovers don’t tend to cure themselves of that habit. One game in the rain could be a fluke; two in a row suggests it’s not.
I think it’s fairly likely to be a close game – it usually is when we play. But frankly, nothing I’ve seen of either of our teams’ games to this point this year, nor in the recent history of the rivalry (which we’ve had a pretty good record in, especially in South Bend; even in the years when ND has been good and we’ve been saddled with JLS or Bobby, the last time the Irish won by more than a touchdown was 1993), suggests that Notre Dame should be favored.
Both sides of the ball are going to be better than anything you’ve yet faced (Michigan’s offense may be more explosive but it’s also much more prone to turnovers; Cousins isn’t likely to throw three easy interceptions like Robinson did). The Irish could quite easily play substantially better than they did against Michigan and still lose if we’re firing on all cylinders; If the turnover bug persists (as I think is fairly likely), things could get out of hand very quickly. For the record, I’ll predict MSU 34-24.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I think your defense is good
And yes, I think the UM defense has improved a little bit but they aren’t at MSU’s level. But I don’t think your defense is soooo much better that there can’t be any comparisons. You were 43rd in total defense last year and now you’ve lost a lot of players on that side of the ball. It’s not like on the national scene you were an incredible defense. And even if you were, again you lost a lot of good talent.
Yards are a good indication that an offense has playmaking ability and can execute. The turnovers are a problem, but they simply cannot continue at the pace that they have. And yes, a lot of teams fix their turnover problems, especially when a bunch of them were very flukey.
There is a very high probability that the game will be close, there’s no doubt. There is plenty to suggest ND should be favored, but there’s no need to get into that here. Good luck tomorrow.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions
No, really
There is plenty to suggest ND should be favored, but there’s no need to get into that here.
Please, get into it!
Other than the insufferable, inexplicable love that sports media has for the Irish at the beginning of each and every season, there really isn’t.
One other point – when turnovers are based off of bad bounces, they should by all means be considered ‘fluky’. But when they’re a direct result of the quarterback holding onto the ball too long (sack-FF’s have a much greater recovery rate by the defense) or forcing the ball into double- and triple-coverage, then ‘flukes’ shouldn’t quite be written off as such.
You're right, you're right....
We don’t have one of the best receivers in college football.
Nor better tight ends.
Nor a veteran and talented offensive line that has looked outstanding so far.
Nor perhaps the most explosive RB at ND over the past 10 years.
Nor a QB, while still young and turnover prone, has proven he can light up defenses.
Nor a big strong defensive line that has limited opposing running backs to 2.5 yards per carry.
Nor an All-American at linebacker and an emerging amount of size and speed overall on the defense.
Nope, that’s just the insufferable media. Every single bit of it. You got me there.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure what to do with this
We don’t have one of the best receivers in college football.
No, you actually do. His name is Michael Floyd!
Nor better tight ends.
Better than who, exactly?
Nor a veteran and talented offensive line that has looked outstanding so far.
The line’s looked good, against ‘meh’ opposition. Granted, it’s better than looking good against ‘ugh’ opposition, but we’re not talking about Alabama here.
Nor perhaps the most explosive RB at ND over the past 10 years.
How does that have any relevance to the game? ND’s backs have been pretty bad recently.
Nor a QB, while still young and turnover prone, has proven he can light up defenses.
He’s also proven he knows how to throw the ball to Michael Floyd. I haven’t seen much else, though.
Nor a big strong defensive line that has limited opposing running backs to 2.5 yards per carry.
Big and strong, eh? Who are Michigan’s running backs? How about USF’s? Go ahead. Name ‘em. You just played them! Why don’t we count Denard Robinson’s rushing totals into this and see how much better those ‘big and strong’ defensive linemen fare.
Nor an All-American at linebacker and an emerging amount of size and speed overall on the defense.
Yeah, Manti Te’o scares me as much as Gary Gray. And I’m not sure what an ‘emerging’ amount of size and speed are going to do to Michigan State. If they had actually yet emerged, then maybe that’d be one thing.
Nope, that’s just the insufferable media. Every single bit of it. You got me there.
Hey, you’ve got a really good wide receiver and a good offensive line. See? There’s always a silver lining!
Sigh.
Thanks for the respect, you’re really helping out.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Should I feign respect?
Would that make you happy?
I don’t see much from Notre Dame to indicate they’re physically or mentally capable of whipping the Spartans.
I have known to be wrong on more than one occasion in the past. But that’s my opinion, and I am damn straight entitled to it. And I’m allowed to feel besmirched by the Irish fans thinking they will cruise to victory, because they have shown no one anything to indicate they’re able to beat middling teams, let alone a top-15 squad.
Them’s how the cookies crumble.
Well...
I don’t see much from Notre Dame to indicate they’re physically or mentally capable of whipping the Spartans.
Either do I. And nothing about our prediction says we will whip Sparty.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh 13 points.
I’m sorry but when in the past decade you haven’t beaten us by more than a touchdown and this Michigan State team could possibly be better than the championship team from last year, it is quite absurd that you think its possible that you could win by 13 points, and especially score 37 points. Seriously, that’s disrespect. You think a Mark Dantonio defense will give up 37 points to Notre Dame? Maybe Iowa or Bama, but not ND. Sorry.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
I don't consider 13 points a whipping.
And we’re not bound to the past forever. I honestly don’t know why ND nursing a 5-point lead and then scoring late seems so impossible to everyone, even if you don’t agree.
We scored 31 last year, again why is it deemed so impossible to score more this year?
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
If I may:
You were in that game because of Dayne Crist. I feel much relief that Tommy Rees is going to be the starter this week (yes, 4-1 record be damned).
No one’s saying ND is incapable of making a bowl. But it seems silly to throw around comparisons of USF and UM to MSU. This is, without a doubt, the best team you’ve played so far.
So, excuse my bewilderment when I see people predicting that, even after ND has been beaten by two worse opponents, they finally decide to turn on the proverbial switch and pound their best foe thus far into the turf.
And I agree 100% MSU is the best team we've faced
There is no arguing that.
But even though we have lost two games, we have looked dominant for a lot of those games too.
In no way do I think we’ll pound MSU into the turf.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
13 points greatly suggests that
That’s three more possessions inside the red zone (without turning the ball over!) than the opposition.
It only suggests that because you want it to
Scoring late in the 4th to secure a two possession lead is not pounding a team into the turf.
Last year’s Capital One Bowl was a pounding into the turf though. And we don’t expect that in the least bit.
But many are acting like we are.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
So you've got this game lined up, play-by-play?
That’s quite an in-depth analysis for someone who somehow came to the conclusion of a 13-point Notre Dame victory.
ALL THIS JIBBER JABBER IS MAKING COACH KELLY ANNNNNNNNNNGRRRRRRRY!!!
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Sep 16, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
We're not favored in the game! Oh no!
That means we shan’t ever win!
I don’t care how many ‘household names’ we have on defense; it’s better than anything you’ve seen – by a lot. An offense that turns that ball over repeatedly because their quarterback refuses to throw at anyone other than their star receiver is the very definition of a bad offense. Your team is 0-2 and has proven two weeks in a row that they shit the bed when the game is on the line. Our team has been practicing for three weeks for this game (Dantonio actually said as much when asked point-blank about game plans for YSU and FAU).
I don’t know what you see, but whatever it is, it’s because you’ve got some weird, distorted leprechaun-goggles on.
About the betting line . . .
Please, our Golden Domed pals, don’t ever interpret the betting line as meaning football experts believe Team A is better than, or going to beat, Team B.
Vegas doesn’t care who wins, they only care to get the action as close to 50% on each side.
In football, there are very very few teams that have lines skewed by blind bettors – and in CFB, ND is that team (U-M may be second). What I mean is, certain teams have a combination of name cache & national brand recognition that combine to drive a huge number of amateur bettors to lay down money on them. The line opened with the home team favored by less than 3, which is essentially a pick ‘em. This is with the wiseguys knowing there will be heavy dumb money on ND. There was so much of that, that the line keeps moving. Again, not BC the bookies feel that ND just keeps getting better all week, but rather, people who don’t know what they’re doing keep putting money on them.
ND always sucks against the spread, one of the worst in the country. Last season, 7-5 ND was 4-8 vs. the spread (and one of those covers was the MSU game, and we know which column for actual W/L that one appeared in). The reason they suck vs. the spread is, dumb money following other dumb money onto them.
On a related note, I will take MSU getting 5.5, or whatever it is right now, all day. Also, watch for this line to move back towards MSU tomorrow, as the wiseguys wait until last minute to make the mega bets; right now, they’re just letting the fools drive the line more towards ND, so they can make bigger last minute bets on MSU but keep the line from going below 3 by game time.
It looks like...
It looks like you clearly didn’t read my post.
Given your record this season, and your record against us in the recent past (especially your record at home!) it is bold but understandable to predict that ND gets it together, doesn’t cough up a million turnovers, and pulls out a win against MSU, but predicting they run away with it does sound a bit like hubris after an 0-2 start when ND fans were expected to finally be a bit humble.
I specifically said, I’m not surprised you guys are predicting a win, and I can understand why. Vegas is predicting a win too. What is a bit surprising to me and other MSU fans is that you’re predicting a 13 point win. In that respect, you guys are on your own.
Please read and comprehend this entire post before responding, thanks!
Predicting a 13-point win shouldn't have caused all the hate in the comments
It’s just that simple.
Maybe if we said we’d win 35-6 you would have a point, but not with a 2,000 word preview that went into detail why we thought we’d win and was plenty respectful of Michigan State.
Is that “spewing crap?” And if that is, what are all these comments here that are deliberately hating on Notre Dame or our site? In almost 50 comments, how many people have even said one positive thing about the Irish? And OFD is being delusional and overlooking MSU??? By the way stuff reads here, it looks like Sparty is playing Central Michigan tomorrow.
For example:
Between M & ND defenses,
How many of those players would even crack MSU’s 2-deep?
On M, Mike Martin could definitely start next to Jerel, and Jordan "the tackling machine" Kovacs could MAYBE be a 2nd string nickel back.
On ND, well, idk, apparently their LBs are more experienced than MSU’s, but for some reason or another, I don’t remember them doing a thing against M. FWIW, One Foot Down still thinks Gary Gray is all-world, and prepared to shut down MSU’s all time leading WR, the whole 3 TDs on him vs M notwithstanding.
This isn’t 10x worse than predicting a 13-point win? Notre Dame, with a defense that was statistically on par with MSU last year, and returns nearly everybody with an infusion of talented freshmen, literally has NO ONE who could be in State’s two deep? And then the comment below this suggests that Te’o is nothing but average? I mean really? Really??
I wish you guys good luck, but this is absurd.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions
You just choked away a certain victory against Michigan because your corners don't know how to attack a floater
Why should people bend over backwards and say things they simply do not believe in an effort to analyze the game? I don’t understand this whole ‘disrespected’ line.
We feel disrespected because we’re 2-0 and have demolished our (admittedly sorry) opposition, and we travel to a place we’ve dominated the past 14 years to face a team we’ve dominated the past 14 years (and happens to be 0-2 this year) and we get this whole ‘no household names’ and ‘basically Michigan’s defense’ crap spewed our way.
Perhaps you don’t understand how much of an insult it is to be called similar to Michigan’s defense. Perhaps you’ll find out why after this weekend’s game. Perhaps not.
To act like you’re putting us on a pedestal and Notre Dame fans are the ones being respectful though is pure bologna. Respect would be 2-point favorites on the road.
Instead, we’d be underdogs on a neutral field. That’s anything but respect.
Sounds like you should be complaining to Vegas
Your defense is not Alabama’s. But your defense is good, and we covered that in our preview. If you want to take a snippet of a long preview and distort its meaning to make yourself feel better than go ahead.
However, even if the Irish were 4.5 point underdogs, you wouldn’t find people on our site trashing MSU to make ourselves feel better once they read on a MSU preview that all the ND offense has is one star player and not much else—-which is basically what you’ve said anyway.
See the difference?
Myself, and our site have always been respectful of MSU and we don’t tolerate the trash talking to the degree we see here. We want to debate the game and have fun with this.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
You're completely delusional
And that’s fine. But to say that you’ve been respectful of Michigan State is laughable at best. Your little Q & A at the top here was anything but respectful of MSU, and honestly most of the posters on your preview were slightly arrogant that all Notre Dame had to do was “stop turning the ball over” which is absurd, because honestly your defense that I saw last week was pitiful against a quarterback that can barely throw the ball with any strength or accuracy.
Please stop playing the disrespect card. Your arrogance and delusion that you believe that this site isn’t respectful of Notre Dame is laughable, because usually we are. We don’t predict 13 point wins against teams that have beaten us at our place for two decades straight (except once). This isn’t trash talking at all. I think we’re in awe of what we read and are trying to wrap our head around it. So please, stop.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
You don't seem to understand the argument
Our defense is not Alabama’s – but it’s not in the same stratosphere as USF’s or Michigan’s.
This is just silly. How is it trash talking when you honestly believe your 15th-ranked, 2-0 team will go to a place they’ve owned the last 14 years and beat a turnover-prone, 0-2 media darling?
Seriously, get a grip.
I have been respectful of MSU!!
How can you guys not see this??
Seriously, you’re upset that we predict a win, a slightly comfortable win, and that we’re not tripping over ourselves because you’re 15th in the country. That is it as far as your “disrespect” goes.
Even in our comment section a few people are very worried and we even talked about how MSU is always underrated!
So, there wasn’t a ton of people fawning over MSU, but where are the people just trash talking MSU and saying you guys suck, etc.??
In my preview I explicitly stated this might be the best offense ND faces all year. We love your running backs and we absolutely are afraid of them and need to slow them down. We really like Cousins too, although we would rather him have to put the game on his shoulders instead of the running backs.
We pointed out your good players on defense, how you have vets at each unit, etc.
In short, there was plenty of respect for MSU, and I see very little to none here.
Crap, even I agree that MSU isn’t being respected enough nationally (which we talked about in our comment section), but I personally think ND matches up really well with Sparty and that our offense can lead us to a win.
All of that respect, and I have to come here and defend Te’o from being called average? C’mon guys, it’s ridiculous.
Good luck tomorrow.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Sep 16, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
you don't have to do anything
"We were a little fat and sassy" -Tom Izzo
by itsalwaysunnyinEL on Sep 16, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
You've Got to be Kidding Me.
Notre Dame is playing the disrespect card? Is that what I’m reading? You wanna play disrespect? How about the fact that I went and read some of the comments of your readers from the State preview and every single one of them is writing us off. MSU was given ZERO credit at all for the defense they had just dominated with (albeit against FAU, but still… ONE first down, ONE!).
Your little Q & A at the top definitely didn’t mention anything too positive about MSU without it being written off that Notre Dame is still the better team because of blah blah blah.
I don’t think you understand how good our team is after winning the B1G championship. That is disrespect. I think we’ve at least earned some sort of acknowledgement that its possible we could beat you guys at your place, pretty badly. What happens if its pouring on Saturday? Is your running game that great that that you’ll be able to get by, because if I were you I’d be worried that Rees couldn’t get it to Floyd.
Notre Dame does deserve our respect. I’m not going to pull a OFD and predict that we’ll win by 2 touchdowns, but I still think we’ll win because we do have veterans at every position on the defense, even though we do have young talent. And the only question on offense is our offensive line, which looked pretty decent against the first two opponents. Its week 3 and I’m pretty sure they’ll just keep getting better.
Eric, take a chill pill. You’re the one who came over here and started whining that Michigan State fans were upset that you predicted a 13 point win over an opponent you’ve beaten ONCE at home in forever!
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
Actually, just checked the weather...
It should be a BEAUTIFUL DAY FOR FOOTBALL!
And with that, I’m going to work. Good day.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
Eric, you're missing the big picture here
Sure ND turned the ball over like 87 times in two games or whatever they are up to now. And you can say that they are flukey and without them they would have rolled. Which is undebatable really—- If If If…
The thing that you are missing is EVERYTHING else. Sure your offense is averaging 500 yards per game against “BCS Opponents” (I would like to point out that Indiana, Vandy, Colorado Baylor, Washington, and the Big East are also “BCS Opponents”) But against UM, you didn’t need 500 yards. What you needed was an 8 minute drive in the 4th quarter. What you needed was to not beat yourselves. What you needed was to do what was working in the first half and run the football.
Brian Kelly’s refusal to run the ball, in the second half was horrendous. The times that he did run the ball, he chose to go up the middle, which is not where they had had any success. Four straight 3rd and short calls right up the gut. Didn’t work once. Crazy. Kelly’s refusal to make adjustments to Denard’s game of 500 was just as maddening. Look, I’m not ready to call him JLS or something. The guy can coach. But seriously, if he doesn’t get his ego off the headset, you’ll just see more of this.
Additionally your team is one of the most penalized teams in football. They make mental mistake after mental mistake. They don’t execute when they need to execute and the coaching has been at best sub par and and worst horrific. This team is just not very good. Good teams don’t start 0-2 against teams that shouldn’t be in the same stadium with them.
whoops
Whoops, sorry, this was meant to be a reply to burger23’s comment above.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
I am incapable of using computers or internets today. And SB nation won’t let me delete.
PS: Sorry ND fans for taking God’s name in vain.
Wow, things are getting a little heated in here
I think there’s some overconfidence evident on both sides here, and plenty of disrespect to go around.
Just went over and read the much maligned preview over at OFD. I would agree they underestimate the talent level on our defense. But I think raising the inexperience question is legitimate on their part. I just think that MSU fans having followed the program recognize that Dantonio and crew have steadily been improving the talent level all over the field. I am personally of the belief that these young guys will be better than the guys they are replacing before its all said and done. But really, how would an ND fan who has seen limited game time out of the likes of Bullough, Allen, Dennard, Lewis, gholston etc know that?
But yea comparing a defense that was in the mid 40s last year and has looked impressive thus far (yes, the competition) to a Michigan defense that was ranked below 100 last year is going to rile people up over here.
I thought the treatment of the offense was pretty fair with a glaring, glaring exception that I surprisingly have not seen mentioned here yet. Let me say I don’t think you were trying to be “disrespectful” of this guy, I just think you vastly underestimated him.
If the running game is shut down, that will force the ball into the hands of quarterback Kirk Cousins who is a very good signal caller, but might not be the type of playmaker to put his team on his back.
So there’s a compliment in there I guess, but the second part of that statement is pretty bold considering the performance Cousins laid on the Irish just last season. I’m not going to go back and look up the stats but I’m pretty sure in the second half Cousins was either 10/11 or 11/11. He had similarly near perfect performances against both Wisconsin in the second half and in leading a huge comeback against Northwestern. Unfortunately there’s more on Cousins:
If Notre Dame can bottle up the Spartan running game, and also prevent any long runs, the ball will be placed in Kirk Cousin’s hands and that is a battle the Irish might be able to win.
I get that you aren’t calling Cousins a bad qb. But I gaurantee he is a good enough playmaker to win this game even if you slow down the running game. And that’s not just MSU homerism, there are plenty of analysts out there talking about him as a 1st or 2nd round pick in the draft. That’s the true beauty of this MSU offense, yes we want to run the ball, but the passing game is also very, very good.
So yea they were complimentary of Cousins at times, but then at the end they predict a 41-24 victory. (By the way this also confused me because above the reference was to a 13 point win, maybe with a late TD to ice it. Um I suck at math but 41-24 is a 17 point win, and while not a blowout it certainly implies that one team is clearly much better than the other. But maybe the original post was 13 and in response to the vitriol they decided to go for the gusto)
Anyway, if you are getting to that score by relying on forcing Kirk Cousins to beat you, that’s not gonna work.
Look, I would say that some of my MSU fan counterparts are also underestimating ND’s talent level. This isprobablythe best group of wideouts we will play this year. Their offensive line returns 4 starters and has looked good. They did put up 461 yards on us last season.
Te’o is better than average in my opinion. He might not be a top 5 Mike in CFB, but he’s good. Their D line has some good talent as well.
I think this game will be close. Ultimately, I think MSU wins this game because Kirk Cousins IS a good enough playmaker to beat you. And beyond that if i’m wagering which QB is most likely to make a critical mistake, i’m going with the kid whose thrown a bunch of picks already and is starting something like his 7th game of his career. Not the Senior, likely NFL draft pick, who while he has had a couple stinkers in his career has been, very, very good much more often than not.
MSU 31- 27
This has to be some world-class hate
I don’t think I’ve ever seen comments this strong on TOC.
I don't have hate for the Irish
I can’t possibly feel that strongly towards an opponent I’m mostly indifferent towards.
It is my personal opinion (as it has been from the time all teams were 0-0) that the Irish are overrated. I think the Spartans will beat Notre Dame handily. After watching tape of the first two games for each team…I couldn’t feel any less different.
That’s not hate, nor is it ‘disrespect’. It’s my honest opinion. The Irish have a great wide receiver, a good offensive line, a Hawaiian middle linebacker, and 15 other starters on offense and defense.
Score Prediction
MSU 27 (3 TD, 2 FG)
ND 23 (2TD, 3FG)
Enough y'all
It got a bit heated in here today, and maybe I should’ve nipped in the bud earlier, but I was at work so I couldn’t. I think everyone’s calmed down a bit now, and I hope we can proceed from here respectfully.
Thanks for coming!
- Pete
ND blog reader here
Early in the season I always have trouble weighing merits and stats of previous games.
Clearly, Michigan State’s defense has performed admirably. How could you want much more than a Scoring Defense that averages giving up 3 pts per game (3rd in the nation) or a Total Defense that is 4th nationally with 151 yds/game?
But, the ND offense is also not Florida Atlantic’s offense (120th in the country) or Youngstown State’s. Even if someone considers USF’s and Michigan’s defenses on a par with Florida Atlantic (who has given up 85 pts in two games), and Youngstown State’s, ND’s offense is ranked 13th nationally while MSU’s is 50th. We should test your defense.
But, I don’t think this is an accurate predictor either.
Nine of the last eleven games have been decided by a touchdown or less. I think it will be similar and can agree with any prediction either way.
To listen to anyone talking all this stuff that I am reading is less than I would have expected – whichever side.
by Michael Collins on Sep 16, 2011 7:08 PM CDT reply actions
It's more than this week's rivalry
If things got heated, I believe it is the effect of MSU fans being told these past three months that they should lower their expectations for the season—that last year was all flukes and scheduling. That the new division setup would be tougher. and that MSU would return to the middle of the pack … which, it seemed, a score of writers felt was our rightful place in the big scheme of things.
MSU fans are reasonable folks, with more painful memories than glorious ones. We don’t get too full of ourselves after a little success. But it gets damned irritating when people strain their imaginations to envision Notre Dame resolving a boatload of problems while Michigan State conveniently rolls over. OK, maybe we’re not going to win the Big Ten. Maybe. But the team you’re facing, Irish, is 2 and 0—and is demonstrably better-coached, better balanced and a good deal more experienced at winning tough games.
Don't do this.
Seriously, there’s no reason to act like this. MSU fans, please don’t think he represents OFD. He has all of 25 posts over there and 0 here. It looks like from that he just joined to troll you.
No intent to troll.
Murtaugh and Burger wrote previews in which they were very complimentary of MSU. Then they got dragged through the mud here for having the audacity to pick ND by 16 and 13 respectively.
I have no desire to rub anything in. I was simply appalled by the incivility here.
I like my crow served cold
I guess they were right and most of us were wrong.
Though IMHO I don’t think the actual talent gap is very wide between these two teams. It’s just wide in the critical area of the offensive line, and today at least, our playcalling was atrocious.
I'd like my order of crow supersized, please
My apologies to our Notre Dame visitors, who turned out to be way better prognosticators than me. I feel like giving myself a John L. Smith face slap. Congratulations to the Irish for a well-deserved win.
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