Michigan State 95, Iowa 61 -- The Winning Streak Has Its Quinceanera
Coming into this game, Iowa committed turnovers 17.3% of the time, 17th best in Division One. Tonight against Michigan State, the Hawkeyes turned the ball over on 21 of their (approximately) 75 possessions. That's 28% of the time, and many of those turnovers were converted into fast break MSU points. Combine that with a hot shooting night from the Spartans, and 95-61 is the final. That's the most thorough victory for the Spartans in conference play I can remember in quite some time, and it pushes the victory streak to 15.
MSU won this on the back of some very hot shooting: 10-18 (55.6%) from three and 27-42 (64.3%) from two. There were a couple lucky shots here and there, but most of the accuracy can be credited to great ball movement to the guards for open threes (Nix had at least two passes out of the post that were converted) and fast break baskets of turnovers. Player bullets follow:
- Draymond Green -- 22 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals, 1 turnover. Ho-hum. Another game, another stat line filled by Day Day. He was a deadeye today (3-4 from three, 9-12 on field goals) and had a ferocious alley oop in the first half that he might not have been able to pull off a year ago.
- Keith Appling -- 15 points, 3 rebounds, 9 assists, 0 turnovers. Possibly the best night Appling's had so far in the point guard role, as he was able to find the open man and still drive to the basket. In November I said that Appling should move back to the two full time and have Brandon Wood take over PG duties. That seems silly right now.
- Brandon Wood -- 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 turnovers. Wood had a very good first half and then disappeared in the second half save for one nice alley oop. If it's to give him rest, all for the better.
- Austin Thornton -- 8 points, 2 rebounds, 3 steals, 1 turnover. If Thornton can hit a couple threes for MSU and give this kind of performance every game for State, they'll be in very good shape.
- Adriean Payne -- 3 points, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers. Payne's hands of stone came back in a big way today. Not the best of efforts for hiim, but still managed to do some good things.
- Derrick Nix -- 10 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 turnovers. He'll most likely be remembered from this game for the dumb technical foul he took for getting in an Iowa player's face after a made dunk, but Nix had two nice passes out of the post to wide open guards on the perimeter.
- Brandan Kearney -- 5 points, 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers. Kearney had the best two minute stretch of his young career when he had a steal, a pass on the money for a Day Day alley oop, and a block on the other end. He seems to know what he's doing out there, and he's 15-20 pounds of muscle away from being very good in the Big Ten.
Everyone else was decent -- Gauna continues to look like he has potential, and although Branden Dawson was quiet he had a couple of nice passes on the interior, something I hadn't seen from him before. All in all a fine showing, and the Spartans have a head of steam going into Evanston on Saturday.
More notes:
- Boy, that Fran McCaffery gets excited. In his defense, I probably would've tried to hurl that chair to the upper deck if I were him.
- Iowa did have some good moments -- Melsahn Basabe had the dunk of the game, dribbling under the basket, beating a defender then one handing the ball home. I also think Aaron White is going to be a very, very good player in the mold of Robbie Hummel. I have no idea why he comes off the bench.
- Does anyone know why the Izzone was singing lullabies and nursery rhymes? It's a good start, but if you really want to mess with a free throw shooter, start with the Alphabet song and segue into "I'm On One". The cognitive dissonance could cause the shot to go over the backboard.
- Mark Hollis texting during the game? Eh, he's probably got work to do working out a football game in Wembley Stadium or a basketball game on the moon vs. the Monstars.
- It feels so, so good to watch a team this together after last year. I've said it before, but I'm going to keep reminding myself of it each game, because it's been a long time since we've an MSU team be so rough the year before and so smooth the next.
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The lullabies was for Aaron White.
He has narcolepsy.
I don't think that's it
Someone said that in the BHGP game thread, but he said he was just kidding afterwards.
Izzone leaders said the lullabies/nursery rhymes
Are for some sort of free throw challenge they are having. We had a list of 10 songs to sing while they were attempting free throws and I found it quite hilarious! It actually worked. When the songs were in full effect, Iowa was missing the majority of their free throws….hopefully we’ll keep this up!
I was glad to see 10 players log double-digit minutes.
That’s surely a result of the game becoming lopsided so early, but I only see good things coming from having a deep rotation.
Yes, a developmental win.
This is begining to be a really deep team that hustle’s and plays D.
I can't remember having so much fun watching a team.
Last year was so frustrating, not living up to expectations, I’m sure the lack of them going in this year is part of the reason this has been so much fun.
But it also has to do with chemistry, something that comes natural to a special leader (and player) like Draymond Green.
It’s a pleasure watching these guys grow. How far can they go? I don’t even ask that question. I’m just trying to enjoy the moment. March will answer that question for itself.
In Izzo We Trust.
Yes on Green
I feel like the “Green is a leader” story is both overdone and underdone all at once. I know this makes no sense, but i’ll try and elaborate.
It seems unfair to give him all the credit for how cohesive these guys have been. How unselfish they have been, and how much fun it looks like they are having together. That requires buy in from everyone, not just Green.
But at the same time, I think having a team where the players hold each other accountable instead of having everything come from the coaches is when you can really have something special. And when your best player is also the most unselfish, that can affect everyone else on the team as well.
I just know it’s been a ton of fun watching this team a couple times per week. Looking forward to the rest of the season.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 10, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody loves the dancing bear like me, but...
Green was on last year’s team too. Just like Izzo was the coach. I think we have to credit the players as a whole more than we tend to.
Not sure how much the new players are adding
in terms of buy in and chemistry. I’m completely ignorant of the internal workings of the team or the personalities involved, so everything I say is mere speculation, but my take is that despite his hops, Summers graduating was addition by subtraction as far as team chemistry and performance goes. He just did not seem to be happy last year. We also had Lucious at the beginning of the year and he obviously was doing something that irked the coach, or he would not have been sent packing.
My take on Lucas is that he wasn’t a great leader – teammates and Izzo descirbed him as pretty quiet and unassertive (a lead by example type) – but he was a great player, and I don’t think he was the root cause of the chemistry problems last year either. Again, mere speculation, but everyone described him as reserved, and those kinds of people don’t tend to affect chemistry negatively – they may not fire up the troops but they’re not hated either because they don’t step on any toes.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 11, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think the new players are adding a ton to the chemistry...
Watching the game, one of the things that stood out to me was Dawson pointing out defenders on a fast break, and he hasn’t been the only one. These guys are finally COMMUNICATING on the floor and I personally think we’re going to see some new leaders develop out of this group. Beyond that, they’re high-fiving, laughing, and they look like they’re having a great time out there together.
favorite moment
My favorite moment was early in the second half when the lineup was something like Kearney, Trice, Dawson, Gauna and Payne. They seemed totally comfortable and in the zone; it suddenly occurred to me that this was four freshmen and a sophomore out there. Despite the Green heroics, this remains an incredibly young team, which makes the chemistry and streak all the more remarkable.
Best Case Scenario
Nix, Payne, and Appling have all developed into what we needed them to be this year to compete for a Big Ten Title. Eliminate the toxic eliminate we had in the locker room last year / bad chemistry and we are right were we should be as a program.
This team really reminds me of the 08-09 team only our depth is much younger. With O$U’s 2nd loss already they are begging us to win this thing. GO State!
I'm almost sure he made it
because he darn near banked the ball off the top of the backboard into the hoop.
by Pete Rossman on Jan 10, 2012 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
He made it..
He was T’d up for getting in iowa players face and taunting him.
Yeah he got blocked when he first went up,with,it
But got. It back & banked it inoff the high glass.
So you were both right!
Haha no way
Its fun to interact with Spartans across the country. So what if you screw up a minor detail!
by MSUDersh on Jan 10, 2012 10:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't call that T dumb
it was pretty badass in person, shut up the Iowa player
"This we'll defend."
IDK if the good outweighs the bad
Last thing that Nix needs is to get a rep as a goon. Look at Gholston in football – two plays in one heated game (resulting in one personal foul – the first & only of his career) and he got skewered on TV & online the rest of the season.
But that Iowa guy shouldn’t have been squawking at that time, it was a 30 pt game by then!
by MSUDersh on Jan 10, 2012 10:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's a hard T to take
Yes, We need to see more fire from him, but this is so childish.
In Izzo We Trust.
I'll take it
It wasn’t a win/lose situation and I don’t mind other teams being a little bit scare that we’ll not only kick their ass on the court but off it (obviously I don’t literally want that type I’d thing to happen but the imagery is nice). We played tough till the end, and the YouTube link posted on the game thread of us completely destroying UM makes me excited for Tuesday. I’m going to go hit up that game in Evanston since I’m sure I’ll be able to sit courtside for like $16. Man I’m so high on spartan pride these days!!!
by StickyGreen on Jan 10, 2012 10:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'll second what Coach Izzo said after his tech earlier this season
At least he’s showing passion or something like that.
Maybe it was Mrs. Izzo that said it actually.
He was getting pounded on all night.
The guy blocked his shot and thought he got the better of him.
Nix scored anyway and let the guy know, this is our house and you need to behave accordingly.
I like the passion, it is still basketball and these things happen sometimes.
The coach wheres his emotions on his face. The players aren’t robots.
If he gets a rep then at least opponents know not to mess with #25.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Guy that Dunked on him?
Was it the same guy who threw that monster slam down in his face?
Apparently
according to Nix the guy was trash talking him, and Nix was frustrated he wasn’t getting foul calls, so when he made the basket he gave the guy a bit of a glare.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
ILL-OSU
Zero.
The number of bench points in ILL-OSU in 45 player minutes. Remarkable. At least we have a bench.
In Izzo We Trust.
We need a couple more OSU losses
To soften them up before we play them later in the season. Two more and their ambitions will be tempered a lil bit.
by StickyGreen on Jan 10, 2012 10:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is IL now a top tier team?
Top tier: MSU, IN, tOSU, IL
Mid tier: PU, MI, WI, MN
Bottom: IA, NE, NW, PSU
by James Rinkevich on Jan 11, 2012 1:03 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
That loss at Purdue...
… makes me wonder if the Illini have enough to compete for the long haul. They seem inconsistent. Brandon Paul’s career high was 23 points before his outburst tonight, and Myers Leonard only seems to play when he wants to. I guess time will tell….
Cheer the Anthem ... Home of Bartl's Boxing
Dantonizzo.com ... Fighting with a vim
@dantonizzo
Slight Change
Top tier: MSU, IN, OSU
Top/Mid tier: IL, MI
Mid tier: PU, WI, MN
Bottom: IA, NE, NW, PSU
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
Also,
Still not 100% sold on IU as “top” teir. All their good wins were close games AT HOME. Their one loss was really their only good road game so far and they lost by 15 to MSU (only other good non-home game was vs NC State and they won). Long story short is that they are soft and thin in the post, therefore, they are an outside shooting team. Live and die by the 3 and it is harder to shoot the 3 on the road.
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
IU is Solid
They beat KU and OSU at home or not those are quality wins against the nations best. It is probably more difficult to win on the road in college basketball than any other sport.
However, i would have MSU and OSU as clear frontrunners with IU, UofM, IL right below us and OSU.
Iowa won at Minnesota
I think they have to be at least even with them if not ahead. Other than that, I’m with you.
agreed
Probably should be a “Mid/Bottom Tier” with Iowa and Minnesota.
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
OSU has some late game execution issues
I don’t think Thad likes to use his bench but was forced to at Indiana and tonight.
He’s not comfortable coaching under those circumstances.
Or so it seems.
The rematch with Indy should be interesting.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Ouch, talk about brutal:
Quote from Izzo (per espn.com recap) regarding Appling and Lucious
“I wouldn’t trade the guy I have for the guy I had in a million years,” Izzo said. “Nothing against Lucious, but he had his chance and didn’t take advantage.”
I can’t disagree with him, but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard Izzo speak against a former player, much less anything that harsh.
Yeah I saw that too
And agree with you about it being atypical to hear Izzo speak like that about someone. But I guess it was in response to a question (posed by an Iowa reporter, per Matt Charbenou, MSU beat reporter for the Detroit News) and we all know thsat if nothing else, Izzo is brutally honest and won’t dance around questions with cliche answers.
Also surprised
But I think it’s more directed at how much he appreciates Appling rather than him taking a shot at Lucious.
Cheer the Anthem ... Home of Bartl's Boxing
Dantonizzo.com ... Fighting with a vim
I agree with that
He explicitly says “no offense to lucious,” plus you gotta believed he was a little irked about the drama lucious contributed to last year. I don’t think the comment was uncalled for in any way and I’m sure Izzo wishes the best for Lucious at Iowa State.
by StickyGreen on Jan 11, 2012 5:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
With the team playing like it is...
I think it’s as simple as him not really feeling like he lost anything from last year. This is our team now, and I don’t think I would trade a single guy we have on the floor right now for anyone else.
video of the Kearney to Green alley-oop
slightly down the page:
http://michiganstate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1317206&PT=4&PR=2
New nickname?
The Dancing Air?
I don’t remember any play whose athleticism has increased as much from one year to another. Props to Green for putting in a ton of work in (at least) the last couple years.
I really am floored that Green has become a player who can do that
As great as he was his freshman year, I never would have believed that was possible.
"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors
The Genius of Mark Hollis
To comment on your Mark Hollis statement about him texting, did you hear what the broadcasters were talking about related to him? They were saying he was trying to work up a plan for MSU (the Spartans) to play USC (the Trojans) at the original Olympic Stadium over in Greece. The guy is pure genius and I love having him on our side. See the link below for mention of the same topic:
Olympia Stadium
Not sure how well this would work. The “stadium” is in-impressive at best. They held the shot put there when Greece hosted the Olympics and I visited the site in 2007, there is really nothing there. That said, if the game is on, I’m going.
by Chi-Burb Spartan on Jan 11, 2012 7:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Even if the stadium is unimpressive, it's the aura of having a game there that is huge.
I was surprised to hear them say Hollis is working on this for NEXT YEAR. I had heard about this previously, but thought it was a couple years off.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Yeah the stadium completely blows
It’s another example of why you don’t want to host the Olympics – the host city goes into tremendous debt building arenas/stadiums that are used for a brief period of time, and aren’t very multi-purpose friendly.
Also, while the announcers said next season, everything I’ve read points to 2017, when the B1G//PAC alliance begins. And just bc the TV announcers who may cover MSU 6 times/year said next season, it doesn’t mean they’re correct. I would wager that anybody who is a semi-regular on TOC knows more about MSU athletics than most BTN announcers (through no fault of their own – those guys aren’t passionate fans like we are).
That being said, Athens is one of the largest cities in Europe, and I’m certain that it has semi-modern arenas in which their own hoops teams play, and that our guys could use. Plus weather in Athens in November isn’t exactly conducive to outdoor hoops at a high level.
Aircraft Carrier
I agree with all the comments about the olympics and the stadiums built for them (pro football with a track in LA?), but they’ll just build a small stadium inside the bigger stadium and have 7,500 people there, or something like that.
Athens has a pro basketball league, and they built a pretty nice arena for the olympics (Helliniko), but it wouldn’t be as dramatic on TV as playing outdoors.
It would be really sweet if
they played the game outdoors on a court at the Acropolis. You can see it from anywhere in the city once you come in from the airport & get around the mountains, and the panoramic shots of it would be as striking as the photos from the carrier classic.
But again, the weather in November (per wikipedia, the average high temp that month is 64 farenheit) seems like it would preclude any outdoor games.
Yeah I suppose
Just looked it up, SD’s avg temp 5 farenheit higher, so pretty close. And I would expect that wind could be an issue at both places, both are coastal cities on huge bodies of water, though a place like the Acropolis is far more inland than being on an aircraft carrier docked at sea!!
Small
My recollection of the Acropolis is that it’s really small, and of course an historical site with constant preservation efforts going on amidst the tourists.
I’m sure there are places where you can play a game with ruins in the background for the TV audience. There’s actually a great spot just out of athens, I forget the ruins, but it’s more open and on the see with a temple.
Will a court fit in the middle of the Parthenon?
Does the Parthenon still exist?
Do we need a home & home with a game in Troy (random desert on the coast of Turkey)?
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Parthenon is still standing
No way could it hold a court, but the Acropolis is basically the top of a hill that has been flattened. Obviously a lot of work would need to be done to clear a portion of it & lay down a court, but there is ample room up there.
The Parthenon & a women’s temple are still up top, and there are ruins all over it on the side & lower levels. But plenty of room for a court & some bleachers, IMO.
Ok, Let's just stop this
I was trying to be nice earlier.
There is NO way they are holding the game on the Acropolis, inside or outside of the Parthenon. Hey, let’s hold a game between the Iraqi and Iranian soccer teams at ground zero! Or we can play a football game on Normandy beach between the Patriots and the (Jets, Cowboys). Or Cowboys v. Redskins on the trail of tears.
STOP!
I didn't say they are
I was saying that physically, there is more than sufficient space, and who are you to say it would never happen – I can assure you that there was a huge contingent of people who said that a game on the deck of an active aircraft carrier would never happen, either!
To paraphrase – Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can’t, you’re right.
Last Post on this topic from me.
I don’t think the analogy works. It’s not about the physical ability to have it there (although it really isn’t big enough) it’s about the Greek people approving the descration of one of their national monuments.
Many US citizens think playing a college basketball game on the deck of the carrier that dumped Bin Laden’s body in the sea is more than appropriate.
Olympia Stadium is not where the 2004 Olympics were held...
They want to have it at the original olympic site (think B.C.). It looks like a middle school track at a class D school in the UP. There is nothing there but a dirt track and a small hill on either side…4-5 hours from athens.
No way they are having a game at the acropolis either, they get pissed when you stand to close to a wall formation or take pictures in the museum.
They Love BBall there, there national team is Olympiacos with a new player named Kalin Lucas on the team.
by Chi-Burb Spartan on Jan 11, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Post of the Decade
Not only because I agree with it, and it replaces rediculousness with facts, but also because of the KL reference.
Olympi, Olympi, Olympiaca! (The Olympiacos cheer doesn’t look as good in text form)
Modern Olympics
I’m pretty sure the plans are not to have it at the original BC Olymipc stadium, but rather at the venue that held the first modern Olympics.
by Chitown Spartan on Jan 11, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Old news
But Mark Hollis is a genius. Best AD in the country.
Funny story. Had an argument with a UofM slap that was bragging about UM vs ND under the lights was this marketing genius (like no one has ever played football under lights before) and I had to sit there and listed to ESPN talk about how “majestic” is was to play football at the Big House under the lights. Anyways, I happen to be around said UofM slappy for the Carrier Classic and got this jab in, “That is the most amazing scene I have ever seen in sports. I mean, it’s not playing football under the lights but it is close.”
Long story short Hollis will always one up everyone with his innovation. Other AD’s (and sports marketing folks) can only hope to have even the opportunity to copy him (see: UofM, NHL, and Wiscy coping the Cold War. Also see: NCAA Final Four coping the Basketbowl to name a few).
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
See: Carrier Classic, too
Apparenlty, it’s going to be replicated at least twice.
Also, don’t forget how Hollis has been able to re-connect some of the deepest pocketed & most visible alums to MSU & the athletic department – Drayton McClane put up something like $4mm to build a brand new baseball facility, and Magic is way more visibly affiliated with the school now than at any time that I can remember, including the title run in 2000.
And hiring Anastos as hockey coach after about 20 years of not coaching could end up being a pure genius move. I’ve said it before & will say it again – Hollis will end up in the state of Michigan Sports Hall of Fame when his career is over.
Yup
At this rate he should be in the NCAA Hall of Fame.The “footprint” (to steal an Izzo-ism) he has left on College Basketball (the ultimate format of Final Fours) and the world of Hockey (bringing back the outdoor games) alone should put him in the NCAA Hall. Then also consider the fact that he made a College basketball game the event of the year while NFL and College football were in the climax of their season.
Then compound that with his impact you mentioned above and his “footprint” is unmatched. (All while making the 3rd lowest AD salary in the Big Ten).
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Hollis' Salary
makes me want to puke. If he was in any private corporation, he would be CEO by now with the creative vision he has and the proven ability to pull off multi-faceted events. The fact that jumping to Purdue would get him a raise is sad to say the least.
2011 did not exist
And to think some were seriously discussing the retirement of some players’ jerseys from last years team.
Uh oh, not the jersey-retiring discussion again
Without wading too deep into this again, I think it’s possible to both be highly critical of last year’s team and the way it performed AND believe that Kalin (the only player in that discussion) should have his jersey retired. 2011 may not have existed, but 2008, 2009, and 2010 most definitely did.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
by Ducking Delvon on Jan 11, 2012 7:54 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with DD that some discussion was merited...
but unfortunately both for us and Kalin’s rafter hopes, 2011 did happen.
Absolutely
NOT! The “leader” of a team that quit should never be placed alongside Leaders like Mateen and Magic
That is such BS
How many Final Fours did Shawn Respert play in? Or Steve Smith? Or Scott Skiles? How many big ten titles did their teams win? All three of their jerseys are in the rafters. Last year’s team did not live up to expectations, but that doesn’t mean they quit.
Kalin’s stats and accomplishments compare favorable with everyone who has ever had their jersey retired at MSU save Magic and Mateen. Last year he was still recovering from an injury that would have sidelined most players for the entire following season. He could have taken a medical redshirt and been playing this year at full strength. Instead he came back hobbled, which may have hurt his NBA prospects. If you think that’s “quitting” you have a distorted view of what it takes to perservere in the face of adversity. I’m not saying he should absolutely have his jersey retired, but calling him a quitter is going way too far.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 11, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This
Here we go again. Look, it’s a valid debate about retiring #1, and what standards should be used (individual, team success, leadership, etc) in making the decision. What’s NOT in debate is that based on the standards that have been used by MSU so far, #1 belongs. If you want to argue that MSU should tighten the standards, fine. But to this point, poor team performance in one year of that player’s career has not been held against a player.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
by Ducking Delvon on Jan 11, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
In the original retire/not retire debate I expressed concerns that our criteria for retiring jerseys has been a little too generous (although UK has retired 37 jerseys, so some schools are more permissive than others). That said, by the general standards that have been used by MSU in the past, Lucas’s accomplishments merit retirement of his jersey.
Whether his jersey deserves enshrinement or not though, calling him a quitter is just beyond the pale. Maybe some players did quit last year (I’m not in a position to say one way or another) but he sure wasn’t one of them – a quitter doesn’t lead an Izzo coached team in scoring and minutes played.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 11, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
They must not actually retire them, then
because there are only 37 numbers you’re allowed to use in the NCAA (0, 00, 1-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55).
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Well according to their Wikipedia page
they list 37 guys whose jerseys have been “retired” but that must mean it’s not the number that gets retired. Maybe they just hang them in the rafters.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 12, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
True about not being a Leader . . .
. . . though you could place him amongst scoring Legends like Skiles & Steve Smith! :-)
by MSUDersh on Jan 11, 2012 12:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think this season points very well to the under the radar side
this team came 100% from under the radar. We lost our first two games and no one on ESPN mentioned us until we rattled off the next 12. We’re not there now, but literally no one expected this team to do anything. Even most overly-optimistic Spartans like myself thought we would have a decent year, but not one like this.
Not trying to be a jerk
But they were not under the radar. There was actually a lot of attention on the team because of how bad last year went. There was a good amount of attention because people wanted to know what was going on, how would the team respond.
No one forgot about the Spartans. This program is too good for that.
Attention doesn't mean we're on the radar
your definition of under the radar is clearly different from mine. For a team as good as state, expecting a finish in the middle of the pack for the Big Ten (which is pretty much what everyone was saying, with at least Wisconsin and Ohio State finishing above us, sometimes Michigan and Indiana ahead of us too) is under the radar to me. I mean, no one expected us to be this good. No experts picked us to be leading the Big Ten. And look at us now. To me, that’s as under the radar as we’re going to get anymore, after all our success in the Izzo years. Catch my drift?
Under Rated v. Under the Radar
Picked to finish in the middle of the pack in the BT and then finishing higher than that, significantly higher, is under rated.
Not getting any national pub because they think you’re going to finish in the middle of the pack in the BT, is under the radar.
I've been waiting a while to see this kind of Spartan team
In the past several years, with execution not matching expectations, many commenters would fall into the “It’s only March that matters” mantra. That seemed to me a psychological crutch to get through the disappointment and frustration. This year’s model is the kind I appreciate where every game is played with an intensity, passion, and cohesiveness. there is a genuine pride from players and fan base. If the team continues to play this way, the likelihood of a long tournament run greatly increases. They are setting themselves up for a top three seed, and the road to a championship is far less bumpy from that vantage point.
In the past SEVERAL SEASONS?
In 09 and 10 they finished first in the conference, which is before March. In March they made the final four in both of those seasons. What do you mean in the past several seasons?
Recollections
Agree that they had a successful season a couple of years ago, but I recall a number of games along the way that resulted in wins, but were underperformances with regard to the competition. I recall many games with maddeningly slow starts. This year the team has been ready right out of the gate and has shown a resilience under pressure that was lacking at times on previous squads.
Not so fast my friend
We’ve been rolling lately, but this team had both “underperformances with regard to the competition” and “maddeningly slow starts” during the non-con.
Feels different watching this team
Having just returned from three months out of the country, I wasn’t able to catch all the action, but I did manage to stream parts of games, and this team just seems to have some tangibles and intangibles that separate them from the last couple of years. I get a sense of cohesiveness and there is more consistency in performance. The instances of screaming out a player’s name in WTF frustration are far fewer for me than over the last couple. Izzo appears to be getting more out of less talent.
The comments from Steinfi2 and One 23 below summarize well many of the differences I was eluding to in my comments. I can only imagine what a healthy Delvon Roe would have added to this team. I like their style. I appreciate the unselfish play. We’ll see how they hold up when they hit that challenging stretch of games in the coming weeks.
I think it's unfair to the 2009 team to make that comparison.
2010 was mostly a case of a team that got hot at the right time (and had the bracket fall apart around them, what with Bill Self getting Faroekmaneshed (I think I spelled that right) and Tennessee squeaking out of the bottom half). The ’09 team was excellent – if not for Battle and Shurna both going berserk from three-point range, we would have won the Big Ten by six games that year.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I'm amazed we continue to be essentially under the radar this year
I mean it’s starting to come out a little bit, but no one is saying we’re a legit contender for the final four (yeah they mention Izzo tends to get us there a lot, but I haven’t heard anyone say “watch out for them”).
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not complaining. The more wins we can quietly pile up (especially in conference) the better. I hope every week to see us at #2 or #3 in the conference power rankings.
Now with our ORating almost as high as our DRating (thanks to last nights whipping), it’ll be hard to not get noticed by more “experts”.
My "under the radar comment" was sarcasm
The team is ranked 7th. With a win saturday (combined with OSU losing to Illinois) they WILL jump into the top 5. Regardless, top ten teams are not under the radar.
If you watch and read college bball coverage nationwide, no one is getting a ton of love or slurping. Not even Duke or UNC, which is surprising.
There really are no "dominant" teams this year.
UNC was the pre-season bet to be the money team, but they’ve shown a lot of holes. Syracuse and Baylor are undefeated, but really haven’t played any top-level competition yet (although the Big East is not it’s usually beastly self, so ’Cuse might only lose 1 or 2.
MSU is playing as well as anybody right now. Rexrode put it well in a tweet last night – “This team plays DEVASTATING basketball in stretches.”
If we can avoid those long FG droughts and minimize turnovers, this MSU team can compete with any team in the country.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Seems to me that
’Cuse & Baylor are getting all the love right now.
Once NFL season is over, I think the overall level of CBB reporting & attention will go way up. Because, frankly, most Americans don’t care about NHL, and the NBA is still trying to recover from the lockout fiasco. And all this, 5 games in 7 nights shit in the NBA isn’t helping, I’ve never seen such sloppy pro hoops play as I have as of late.
I think the NBA wanted to teach the players a lesson
Oh, you don’t want to accept less money? Then you’re gonna play games 3 nights in a row all season – how you like that?
Seriously, when an NBA team is playing on a 3rd consecutive day, you can pretty much pencil in a loss.
48 minute games + 24 second clock = lots of running up and down the court
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Oh Boo Hoo
They all make a butt load of money. For what?
Not hearing their complaining. I was on their side for the lockout, but guess what. If you’re not thankful, you can give it up.
Thankful?
The owners ought be thankful they get any of the proceeds. Nobody goes to a game to watch the team be owned. Except maybe in Dallas.
by witless chum on Jan 12, 2012 5:51 AM CST up reply actions
Correction
No one goes to a game to watch the home team be owned. Fact of fact: 99% of attendees are their hoping to see the away team get owned :D
agree about the NBA
it’s barely watchable (not that I ever used to watch either). I’ll pick SIU vs Ill. St. over almost any pro game.
Baylor just won at Kansas State.
They deserve some love, but I’m starting to see some regular talk about MSU. Here is one article where we are mentioned as an outside NC contender.
Best ball movement for a sparty team in the past 3 years—-forget about the lucious reference—i would take Appling over Kalin “2 assists-4 turnover” Lucas
to be good the whole has to be greater than the sum of its parts——sparty is starting to look like a team. That being said, when push comes to shove, to be really good we need to get more out of Payne than we are now—-still has no intuitiveness on the court——needs to explode for rebounds—-needs to block out—-he should be a 9 and 9 man every night—-hands of stone—-i think he is the “X” factor—-Dawson will be better before the season is over—-great athlete—raw talent—his D will get better
Good Lord
Appling has been awesome this year, no doubt. But come on. You are ready to take him over the guy who led MSU to 2 consecutive regular season conference championships, 2 Final Fours, and was the conference POY as a sophomore????
Last season was a mess, no doubt. But the revisionist history that somehow we are coming out of a “down” period in MSU basketball needs to stop. Kalin Lucas accomplished more at MSU than any one player in the Izzo era that wasn’t on the 2000 championship team.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 11, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
The Final Four in 2010 was great
but lets be honest. That was a flukey run for a slightly above average team. They struggled to put away awful teams (67-65 home win against Penn St), dropped inexplicable games (Minnesota loss), got hammered on occasion (3 double digit losses including by 18 to Wisconsin) and outside of a win over an injury wracked Purdue team that just lost Hummel, we went 1-5 against ranked teams. We won a piece of the Big Ten title with 4 losses in a pretty weak B1G. Matchup the 2009-10 teams against this year’s B1G by order of finish and I’d be surprised if they won more than 3 games. Our B1G title was also pretty fortuitous I might add, since Hummel’s injury came at exactly the right time. Purdue had already handled us in East Lansing (as had Ohio State) and was poised to put us out of the running in West Lafayette when Hummel went down.
Durrell was in full phone it in mode for the majority of that year, Kalin went sideways after an admittedly sensational sophomore year, Raymar gets more revisionist history than anyone after a great close to the year helped erase the memory of a mostly mediocre season and outside of a young and inexperienced Draymond, nobody else was that impressive.
Of course the tournament was a great run, but we won 4 games by 15 TOTAL points. Three of our four wins game down to the final possession, despite one of the easiest roads to the final four of any team in recent memory.
All that said, Kalin was a B1G player of the year, he took us to 2 B1G championships and 1 final four (everyone seems to forget he went down during the Maryland game), so as of right now I’d still take him over Appling, but I’d say the last two regular seasons do constitute a down period for MSU (one tournament run not withstanding) and Keith definitely has a shot at throwing down a legacy at least as impressive as Kalin.
Those are all good points
But it’s Worth remembering that 09-10 team started 9-0 in the conference (admittedly their early schedule was soft). And if we are talking about injuries I believe a contributing factor to the 3 game losing streak that season was Kalin spraining his ankle (weren’t they leading Wisconsin in Madison before that happened?) At this point our current team has played 4 conference games. There is still a lot of basketball for them to play to build their own legacy. Admittedly they look great, and I am as excited as anyone.
I guess it’s more a reaction that these guys are somehow restoring MSU after the guys who just left did some unspeakable damage to the program’s reputation. Maybe I am reading too much into it. But this wasn’t UM football under RR. We had one down year last year (in which we still made the tournament). A mediocre conference or not, the 09-10 team still hung two banners.
I guess I would prefer we appreciate what this team is doing, and the potential it has without trying to imply that we are coming out of some sort of dark age for MSU basketball. The kids that just left, as frustrating as they were last year, accomlished an awful lot, and frankly this current team still has a long ways to go to reach those heights. I think they can get there, and I am sure cheering for them. But they haven’t accomplished it yet.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 11, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
+1
It’s incredible to me that people are so down on Lucas given what he accomplished here. It’s like the final four runs and Big Ten titles occurred a half decade ago. We had one sub-par year. Plus, he wasn’t at full strength last year but gets all the blame anyway when, IMO, he deserves kudos for fighting to make it back onto the court in a timeframe that was ridiculously short given the nature of his injury.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Kalin was great
See my last paragraph. I just think its also important to remember how 2009-10 had a great deal of frustration that was only counteracted by a fluky tournament run (that Kalin didn’t even play in the majority of) and a lucky injury. When you add that to the sheer awfulness of 2010-2011 I think it says something. Players are not measured on statistics alone. Kalin is not responsible for everything that happened his senior year and his play on the court was actually the only thing going for us, but he failed pretty completely as a leader, albeit in a bad situation. His freshman and sophomore years were outstanding but his performance in both of his final two years at MSU left something significant to be desired.
@trivialstuff16: I am in no way saying Keith has surpassed Kalin’s legacy, but I definitely think Keith’s ceiling does. That’s all I’m saying.
That's fair
My first post was in response to the comment about taking Keith over Kalin. I don’t think that was you.
I would agree, the way this team is playing they have as high a ceiling as anyone. I guess we just disagree about that 09-10 season. Sure it was frustrating at times, but it still ended in a conference championship (albeit shared). And again part of the reason for that 3 game losing streak was Kalin spraining his ankle. If you look at his numbers, they are virtually the same as his sophomore year. So yea, i guess if you were expecting him to make a leap from sophomore to junior year then it left something to be desired. The team may have disappointed at times, and as a pg and a team leader he deserves some blame for that (but so does Draymond, and Izzo, and everyone else). But his performance didn’t really slip at all.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 11, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah that first post wasn't me.
But I guess we do disagree about 09-10 season. I’m sure 30 years from now I’ll have forgotten all about it, but I remember being so furious after a pathetic home effort against Ohio St had all but eliminated us from the B1G race (which btw Kalin went 3-13 in for 9 points). That team was infuriating and never really showed the capability of beating an elite team. The injury for Hummel basically handed us a share of the title we had already pissed away, so its hard to be too proud about that (At least for me).
I will always fondly remember that tournament run considering the Lucious game winner will go down as an all-time great Spartan moment… but people forget that Maryland team wasn’t all that good. Neither was Tennessee, Northern Iowa or New Mexico State. On top of that, for most of that tournament run (including the Maryland shot) Kalin was not on the floor. I hear The Crested Helm defend Kalin by listing 2 Final Fours among his accomplishments and I do a double take.
We did have a flukey run to the Final Four
but we won a share of the Big Ten title. It didn’t come with an asterisk. Many celebrated MSU teams have not claimed a championship. I can’t see how, flukey run or not, the 2010 team can be seen in any way as a disappointment. Last year’s team was just not as good as expected. We have better off guards this year, and our front court is much better thanks to Nix and Payne developing over the off-season.
Nix was overweight and out of shape for much of last year. Maybe Kalin could have pushed him more to get in shape – I don’t know – but it would have helped immensely if we had had this year’s version of Nix last year. Plus Kalin had enough on his hands just getting himself ready to play after the injury. Nix has already put up more shots this year than all of last year (almost twice as many in fact) and is shooting the same percentage (roughly 60 percent from the field). Is it Lucas’s fault he wasn’t this good last year?
Durrel Summers had 22 assists last year – that’s his entire total for the year. To put that in perspective, Dawson has 24 already this year, Wood has 39. Green, like last year, is leading the team in assists this year. Appling is second (as Lucas was last year). I just don’t see how the majority of the blame for last year’s disappointment can be put on Lucas – we were worse at other positions last year than we are this year. Point guard play was the least of our problems last year, so I don’t see why the point guard should take the majority of the blame for the disappointment.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 12, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn't fluky IMO
It was a bracket buster known as Northern Iowa that wasn’t good enough to win after the big upset.
Remember, OSU was the 2 seed in the same region but Thad and his short bench bunch ran out of gas against Mr. Photomat er Bruce Pearl.
MSU had more depth, with hobbled guys even, and outlasted Tennessee.
That’s not a fluke, it’s pretty logical actually.
The bigger fluke to me is losing to Butler, they out MSU’d MSU which still frustrates me.
Also, Lucas didn’t play in 3.5 of those games in the tourney but I think he deserves some credit for them soldiering on. He was a changed player after that NMSU kid disrespected him and was playing very well against MD before the injury. That may have been more than a little inspiring to the team. He seemed to be on a mission, the team picked up where he left off. Most notably Summers.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Helm I usually love your posts
but, you keep misrepresenting me.
Point guard play was the least of our problems last year, so I don’t see why the point guard should take the majority of the blame for the disappointment.
I have repeatedly said that Lucas does not deserve the majority of the blame, that he played well for much of the year, and yes last year’s team was a bit of a tire fire in comparison to this years. That does not change the fact that he was a senior leader and the most important player that came up WAY short of its stated goals. At least some of that has to fall on Lucas.
As for 09-10, Lucas deserves little if any credit for the tourney run since he wasn’t playing for the majority of it. And yes, we did back into a B1G title. Yes it’s great and winning it is still a huge accomplishment, but that doesn’t change the fact that a few lucky breaks turned what was a partially frustrating year into a positive one.
Izzo
This is a vintage Izzo response to a bad season. Last season will go down as the worst in Izzo’s tenure so far, and I know he felt the need to redeem himself. So how does he do it? He has the team playing like this.
This year his team is not only playing much better than last year, but they are also playing better than they have played since the National Championship team. The problems that have seemed to plague even the really good teams we’ve had are gone. We aren’t turning the ball over all the time, we aren’t being complacent against lower tier opponents, we aren’t starting slow every game. We’re playing to our level, not the level of our competition, every single game. And that’s special. Plus, we have an emotional leader who everyone on the team seems to respect; this is something that can’t necessarily be planned, but does help a whole lot.
Strap in guys, this is a special year for MSU basketball.
Iowa was getting Frustrated
Before the Nix Tech, did anyone see Gatens swing twice on B. Wood? Then B. Wood started talking trash to Gaten. Then Izzo screaming at Wood to “Shout your mouth.”
He was not happy with Wood’s talking but seemed to brush off the Nix tech because after the Nix tech he spent that time out to continue rip Wood a new one.
Thoughts?
by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 11:20 AM CST reply actions
Nix said the guy he stared down
had been talking trash, and that he was also frustrating Nix because Nix wasn’t getting foul calls.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Interesting
Wood also got a little pissed at Day-Day for going up to get a rebound over him. Draymond knocked him down, and in Wood’s defense, Draymond was clearly just hunting for a double-double. Wood shook his head all the way back down the court.
Woods should have been running back down the court and leave the rebounding to the big guys. How do you know that he was in search of a double -double? Green was doing what he has been doing for 4 YEARS -REBOUNDING!
Well that was his 8th I believe and they took him out as soon as he got his 10th. He grabbed it over wood while looking in his direction. I don’t know for sure, obviously, but it looked to me like double double hunting and I’m pretty sure Wood saw it the same way. Everyone loves Draymond, myself included, but he’s not a saint.
Draymond has definitely gone stat-hunting on occasion.
I don’t remember what game it was or who got hurt, but I remember Draymond throwing a full court pass in garbage time to an MSU player in a last ditch attempt to get 10 assists. The player ended up needing to stretch for it and came down funny.
Please don't remind me
That symbolized everything that was wrong last year.
Me, me, me.
That was terrible.
A stupid, unnecessary stat hunt that hastened the end of Delvon’s career.
Coach Izzo was just as guilty for allowing it to happen.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Fifth-year...
….senior who’s expected to be a mature, confident leader versus Nix, who is a pretty emotional dude.
by witless chum on Jan 12, 2012 5:55 AM CST up reply actions
not down on Lucas—great player—4 points short of 2000—2 final fours—this team has better ball movement—-while lucas was agreat talnet, he didn’t make guys around him better—9 and 9 in conference last year-including a couple of blowouts on the road and a couple of losses at home…was a better 1 as a sophomore than as senior—-assists went down and turnovers went up—-didn’t see the court real well
that being said—this team is still work in progress—right now you know what you have in many of the guys—-Nix biggest improvement from one year to the next for a player in a long time—-Dawson is coming along though sloer than i look—would like to see him crash the offensive glass more than he has and equal to the reputation that he had—-in high school my guess is he did it on raw talent—the same kind of raw athletic talent that made Torbert a top 15 player out of high school—-once he learns the art of boxing out and rebounding it could be quite a show—his offense and defense will come along—-still think Payne is the x-factor—starting to believe that what we see is what we are going to get—-if he develops into 75% of what we hope he can be——we will be very good on the front line and difficult to defend
good points but...
use some punctuation, man. “-—” do not count.
And Dawson is a natural rebounder, as I remember him crashing the boards fairly well in the mcd’s all american game last year. He’ll get used to playing against D1 talent and the speed of the game.
by mb87 on Jan 11, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
To avoid any revisionism, a little roundball history...
The three years before last year were a terrific ride for us MSU fans. In a way, these guys made success look easy. It’s not. But in Sparty’s run of 14 straight NCAA Tournament appearances, there are definitely cycles at work based on the rotation of talent. A quick summary of the 14 consecutive NCAA Tournament seasons makes last year’s downer look like part of a normal cycle from recruitment to graduation:
97-98: Big Ten—tied for 1st NCAA—Sweet 16
98-99: BT—1st NCAA—Final Four
99-00: BT—Tied for 1st NCAA—Champions
00-01: BT—Tied for 1st NCAA—Final Four
01-02: BT—5th NCAA—First Round
02-03: BT—Tied for 3rd NCAA—Elite Eight
03-04: BT—Tied for 2nd NCAA—First Round
04-05: BT—2nd NCAA—Final Four
05-06: BT—Tied for 6th NCAA—First Round
06-07: BT—Tied for 7th NCAA—Second Round
07-08: BT—Tied for 4th NCAA—Sweet Sixteen
08-09: BT—1st NCAA—Runner-Up
09-10: BT—Tied for 1st NCAA—Final Four
10-11: BT—Tied for 4th NCAA—First Round
Granted, that crew led by Neitzel (04-08) only made the Sweet Sixteen his senior year, but each group of recruits have made their mark, and each team has growing pains as they learn how to take their shot at the prize.
I’d argue that most of last year’s problems stem from the absence of Lucious and Allen. Take two starter-quality caliber upperclassmen away from any backcourt in America, replace those two guys with two walk-ons and a freshman, and see how they fare. A lot of teams wouldn’t survive the loss of one guy; imagine UConn last year without Kemba Walker or BYU without Jimmer. Izzo and his assistants couldn’t find a rotation because they were missing too many pieces of the planned whole.
So we had our down season a year sooner than previous performance would have suggested, but let’s not forget it was because our coach decided that no player was BIGGER THAN THE PROGRAM. None of that diminishes Kalin Lucas’ contributions, or his legacy, in my view. The guy is #5 all-time in scoring, ahead of Jay Vincent.
But now, this is Green’s team. Appling is stepping up. Team chemistry is off the charts, and the ceiling’s pretty darn high, as Izzo likes to say. Nothing’s in the book yet, but the sky’s the limit. Go Green!
Lucious and Allen
were not and will never be in the same solar system as Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredette, either in terms of skill or importance to their team.
That said, I understand your point and their dismissal was certainly a factor. Their is plenty of blame to go around and Kalin probably deserves the least of anyone on the team (at least in terms of on-court play). But he does have to take some of the blame.
+1 for your last point though. Love this year’s team.
Just saw a bit of the Penn State - Nebraska game
and wondered if DeChellis left that Penn State coaching job in such a hurry (at least it seemed so) because he knew what was coming down the pike. Hmmmm…..

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