Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Watch Out For Cowboys UDFA Tim Benford

Is MSU's Backcourt Actually Better than Last Year's?

(Bump. -- Ed.)

Before last season started, the premise of this question would have seemed preposterous. Even a few short months ago, it would have been fairly laughable. After all, MSU entered last season ranked #2 in the country and was coming off back-to-back conference titles and Final Four runs. Respected writers were comparing the team to the best Izzo has ever had and saying that anything short of a national championship would be "a disappointment". A major source of optimism was the depth at the guard position. Seniors/BFFs Kalin Lucas and Durrell Summers were preparing for a year that would showcase their talents for the NBA. And junior Korie Lucious, he of The Greatest NCAA Tournament Shot in MSU History fame, was going to anchor the point guard spot as the third core member of the backcourt. The guards were experienced, battle-tested, and talented.

By the time the 2011-12 season started, Lucas, Summers, and Mike Kebler had graduated, Lucious had been kicked off the team, incoming freshman Dwaun Anderson decided not to enroll at MSU, and Brandon Wood transferred from Valpo for his senior season. All of this left MSU with a core backcourt of Appling, Wood, and Travis Trice. A true freshman, a guy who had never played at MSU and wasn't a point guard, and a sophomore shooting guard/scorer being converted into the starting point guard. In other words, one gigantic question mark.

Well, we now have a sample size of 17 games for this year's team, so I thought it would be interesting to compare the stats on the two trios using the first 17 games of last year (especially given some recent debate about last year's team and Izzo's comments about Lucious after the Iowa game last night). I think there's enough to go on for a fair comparison at this point.

Star-divide

Note: I realize it's not a 100% apples-to-apples comparison, as Summers was more of a guard/small forward combo, but it's pretty darn close, as Summers played the "2nd guard" quite a bit.

Let's do this by category:

Minutes


Min Avg

Min Avg
Appling 486 28.6
Lucas 521 30.6
Wood 446 26.2
Summers 509 29.9
Trice 319 18.8
Lucious 393 24.6
Total 1251 73.6
Total 1423 83.7

Summary: Lucas/Summers/Lucious (LSL) played more overall minutes, accounting for 41.9% of the team's total minutes played. Appling/Wood/Trice (AWT) have accounted for 36.8% of the team's total minutes. Not a huge difference, but not insignificant either. Last year's guards simply played more than this year's. This is interesting to keep in mind in relation to the other stats.

Assists and Turnovers


A TO A:TO

A TO A:TO
Appling 66 34 1.94
Lucas 62 45 1.38
Wood 39 18 2.17
Summers 9 28 0.32
Trice 34 28 1.21
Lucious 65 37 1.76
Total 139 80 1.74
Total 136 110 1.24

Summary: The total assists are amazingly similar, with AWT actually tallying 3 more than LSL despite playing fewer minutes. The turnovers, though, are where we see our first big difference. Through 17 games, LSL committed 30 more turnovers than AWT has committed this year. How is this impacted by adjusting for the difference in minutes played? LSL averaged 1 turnover for every 12.9 minutes played. AWT is averaging 1 turnover for every 15.6 minutes played. So the turnover rate has gone down by a decent margin. Some other things that stood out to me: (1) that Appling has exceeded Kalin's assist numbers AND cut the turnovers down; (2) that Summers registered only NINE assists in 509 minutes (by comparison, even Russell Byrd, who has played only 94 minutes this year, has 10 assists); and (3) that Wood has been excellent taking care of the ball (of the 8-man playing group, he's 3rd in minutes played and has 2nd fewest turnovers).

Scoring


Pts Avg

Pts Avg
Appling 215 12.6
Lucas 250 14.7
Wood 172 10.1
Summers 241 14.2
Trice 97 5.7
Lucious 108 6.8
Total 484 28.5
Total 599 35.2

Summary: The one clear advantage for LSL is points scored. Lucas and Summers scored a lot more than Appling and Wood, while Lucious and Trice actually come pretty close to each other. But this advantage is mitigated by a couple factors. First, accounting for the difference in minutes by using a "per 40 minutes" number, LSL scored at a rate of 49.1 points per 40 minutes while AWT has scored at a rate of 45.3 points per 40 minutes. So the difference isn't quite as big as the raw numbers suggest. Second, it took LSL a lot more shots to get those points, as illustrated next.

Shooting Percentages


FG FGA Pct 3FG 3FGA Pct
Appling 69 149 0.463 16 48 0.333
Wood 66 132 0.500 21 57 0.368
Trice 30 78 0.385 21 48 0.438
Total 165 359 0.460 58 153 0.379








FG FGA Pct 3FG 3FGA Pct
Lucas 85 194 0.438 22 53 0.415
Summers 88 204 0.431 38 94 0.404
Lucious 36 110 0.327 21 72 0.291
Total 209 508 0.411 81 219 0.370

Breaking it down a little further:


FG% eFG% 2P% 3P%
Appling/Wood/ Trice 0.460 0.540 0.519 0.379
Lucas/Summers/ Lucious 0.411 0.491 0.443 0.370

Summary: AWT has better overall field goal percentage, better shooting percentage from inside the arc, slightly better 3-point shooting percentage, and a better effective field goal percentage. Translation: this year's guards have been much more efficient in getting their points (1.35 points per FGA, compared to 1.18 last year).

Free Throw Shooting


FT FTA Pct FTR

FT FTA Pct FTR
Appling 61 73 0.836 0.490
Lucas 58 75 0.773 0.387
Wood 19 26 0.731 0.197
Summers 27 43 0.628 0.211
Trice 16 27 0.593 0.346
Lucious 15 19 0.789 0.173
Total 96 126 0.762 0.351
Total 100 137 0.730 0.270

Summary: Similar numbers here, but again, advantage to AWT in terms of percentage and the rate at which they get to the line.

Rebounding, Blocks, Steals


OR DR R B S

OR DR R B S
Appling 12 47 59 9 17
Lucas 6 31 37 1 21
Wood 13 35 48 4 12
Summers 24 57 81 3 10
Trice 1 33 34 2 17
Lucious 9 19 28 2 15
Total 26 115 141 15 46
Total 39 107 146 6 46

Summary: Similar numbers again, with steals being equal, LSL getting a few more rebounds, and AWT getting more blocks. One big difference is that Summers pulled up the rebounding numbers for Lucas and Lucious, while this year's guards have less disparity.

Conclusion

I think the stats bear out that this year's guards have indeed performed better than last year's over the first 17 games of the season. Many of the categories (assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks) are remarkably similar. However, this year's guards have done a few things that give them a clear advantage in my mind: they've cut down turnovers and shot attempts dramatically and they've increased their efficiency from the field.

And this, along with other tangible and intangible improvements, is why Spartan fans are being treated to the most enjoyable start to a basketball season in years.

This is a FanPost, written by a member of the TOC community. It does not represent the official positions of The Only Colors, Inc.--largely because we have no official positions.

Comment 41 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

To be fair

I agree and like this years backcourt better, however, let us not forget Lucas was still rehabbing from a major injury. Most players would have taken a year off.

With that said, Kalin’s selfishness on the court (and most likely off the court too), Durrell’s head games, and Lucious’s street ball mentality all contributed to the demise of last years team.

I wish there was more experience at the PG on this team but I would definately choose this backcourt over last years EXCEPT when Durrell is on fire (sans 2010 NCAA run).

by SpartyintheVille on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM CST reply actions  

Durrell on fire

happened so little though that I’d take Keith Appling on fire in the last 10 minutes of every big game he’s played thus far over it.

by Loneytunes on Jan 12, 2012 10:57 PM CST up reply actions  

That was the thing about Durrell

He played great in the tournament – both as a sophmore and a junior. The big question mark coming into his senior year was whether he could play like that it for an entire season. Unfortunately we continued to get the “regular season Summers” rather than the “post-season Summers” in his senior year.

by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 13, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Great Analysis

Thanks for laying all the stats out for us. Very interesting stuff. It sure is nice to see this year’s crew exceed expectations in many ways. I love this team!

by NCTigersFan on Jan 11, 2012 6:41 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions  

Very Interesting analysis

I’ve been defending Lucas on other posts. This certainly makes me rethink that a little bit.

However, I do think it’s important to remember that the gaurds do not play in a vacuum. I would argue that the vast improvement of Nix and Payne has helped the efficiency of the current guys by getting them more open looks in the halfcourt.

Likewise, improved defense. Something Appling, Wood, and Trice deserve additional credit for contributing to has helped us get a lot more buckets in transition.

Still, thanks for putting this together. At the very least it helps me appreciate exactly how effective these guys have been for a backcourt that had never played together going into the season.

by trivialstuff16 on Jan 11, 2012 8:17 PM CST reply actions  

Also

It would be great to see the comparison in terms of tempo free stats. Minutes don’t necessarily = possessions. I’d love to see this broken down by per 40 min, and per possession. Based purely my gut and the eye test, the two teams are probably roughly comparable on poss per game basis (these are two Izzo teams, we aren’t comparing UK and UW here after all).

This years Guards (TY) vs. last year (LY):
TY, Ast/40 min: 4.44 ; TO/40 min: 2.55
LY, Ast/40 min: 3.82 ; TO/40 min: 3.09

Not sure where I can find the possession data (I really need to subscribe to Ken Pom). Also, any good sources for finding usage rates?

Actually a little surprised that the Ast/40 numbers are that low, but the non-creators (Wood and Summers) pull the avgs down.

PS – Holy hell, Summers really was a turnover machine last year.

by RoninX on Jan 12, 2012 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

No prob

Has Brandon Wood been even better this year in fewer minutes than last year?
Some of his stats suggest yes.
Check out that offensive rating.
I didn’t realize he was such an average free throw shooter, I thought he’d be money at the line but he’s even improved some this season.

"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"

by spartyball on Jan 12, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

All good points

I didn’t want this to come off as the “answer” for why this year’s team is playing better – more of a statistical comparison out of curiosity. But I do think the improved guard play is a huge part of it. Nix and Payne’s improvement has been great for this team, but don’t forget, last year’s team had a junior Delvon Roe and sophomore Garrick Sherman. It’s not like we were sorely lacking down low.

As for Lucas, I think it’s slightly unfair that his numbers are lumped in with Summers and Lucious, but I wanted to look at them as groups and not individuals. Durrell’s horrible A:TO rate and Korie’s horrid shooting numbers really pull down those categories for all of them. On an individual basis, Kalin’s season was very comparable to Appling’s so far. Of course Kalin went on a scoring binge the second half of the year, which I don’t envision happening with Appling.

"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe

by Ducking Delvon on Jan 12, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Kalin Lucas' legacy at MSU

In the “What have you done for me lately?” sports world, he appears to be remembered as much for the the 2010-2011 team’s failure as for back-to-back Final Fours and an appearance as CPOY. I’m not saying that’s entirely unfair but it will be interesting to follow.

I have a feeling that the next five years will be kind to Mr. Lucas’ memory, especially after Izzo gets #3 and the disappointment of 2010-2011 becomes lower stakes.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Jan 12, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

Though while I was back in EL over the holidays I was surprised at how bitter some people seemed about KL. Here hoping time provides the distance needed for everyone to appreciate his career. /digression

by RoninX on Jan 12, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Very crazy

That team would’ve struggled to make the NIT without Lucas.
When Douche Gottlieb called them Kalin Lucas and a bunch of guys, he wasn’t that far off.
He simply was the offense on a lot of nights.

"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"

by spartyball on Jan 12, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

The Appling Effect

I’m a Kalin defender and think that over time, his legacy will be defined more by his brilliant sophomore season than the “disappointing” (and what a relative term that is) senior season. However, the fact that Appling has filled in so well actually makes people miss Kalin less right now. If we were struggling to find a decent PG right now, there would be all kinds of stories about how much we miss him. That this has not been an issue is a testament to Appling and the tremendous job he’s done and not a knock on Kalin.

"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe

by Ducking Delvon on Jan 12, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

We shouldn't be all that surprised

Appling was a McD all-American after all. We should have had some expectation he’d be pretty good. Basically, given his pedigree, we should expect the sophmore version of Appling to be roughly the equivalent of the sophmore version of Lucas. If we get that through the conference season and in the post-season, I’ll be pretty ecstatic. So far, so good.

by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 12, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

We should expect Appling to play like a stud because well, he is.

Also, it makes sense that this year’s backcourt is better because this year’s team is obviously better. Izzo’s offense is built around superior guard play, so the team should go as does the backcourt. Not that the backcourt is 15 straight wins good right now – the frontcourt playing stellar adds to that – but it sure has meant a lot.

by MSUDersh on Jan 12, 2012 3:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Lucas

I wouldn’t say people have dismissed him or forgotten about him, but everyone has to move on as his run is over. True Spartans will never forget his run in ’09 getting us to a final four in Detroit was one of my best memories as a Spartan bball fan.

Lucas was a great scoring PG, was tough as hell, and made big shots. However, never a great assist guy or floor leader. I also think in his head most of the year he was trying to show case his ability for the NBA then getting that team in line until the last few weeks of the season.

I also wouldn’t put much of the blame on last years struggles on his shoulders since he was coming back from the injury. Summers was a nut case last year and having Allen and Lucious get kicked off the team really put the season in turmoil from the start.

by MSUMC25 on Jan 12, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha, #2!

It took way too long to catch that!

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Jan 14, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Although, at the time

I may have been thinking MSU’s 3rd championship not Izzo’s.

"And how much are intangibles worth? 10%? 20%?" - kj@theonlycolors

by intrpdtrvlr on Jan 14, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Great Post DD

One of the things I have noticed with our guards this year is their ability to feed the post. When Nix/Payne get good position, the ball goes into them. If a double team comes, the ball goes right back out. The ball movement this year has been phenomenal. Summers was awful at feeding the post so the big men would not even bother fighting for position when he had the ball. Whenever a big did finally touch the ball, they wanted to shoot it. Nix assist rate has increased from 6.7 to 11.4 this year. Kalin & Durrell were terrific Spartans. It was painful to watch their careers end the way they did. It is also fair to criticize them when you see the team performing at the level it is now with little help from the freshman and no Delvon.

by Chris in Kzoo on Jan 12, 2012 9:22 AM CST reply actions  

This is a very good post

I would second that Lucas was not at full strength at the beginning of the season last year, so his stats should be taken with a grain of salt. We are much better at all the non-point guard positions this year, at least offensively. We’re playing much better defense as well. To put Durell’s assist rate into perspective, he had 22 assists all of last year. Wood has 39 already this year, and even Dawson has 24. Kearny has 10 and he’s played only limited minutes.

Green lead the team in assists last year and is doing so again this year. Appling has been very impressive as a point guard. I would say he’s coming close to equalling Lucas’s production, which is very impressive and probably better performance than any of us expected from him. Where we are really getting better production from, though, is shooting guard, wing, and center.

Nix has already taken more than twice as many shots this year as he did last year. He’s shooting at roughly the same percentage, but he’s scoring a lot more because he’s staying on the floor and taking more shots. Payne’s shooting percentage has gone up more than 10 points. Both of them are making a much higher percentage of shots than Roe did last year. Dawson is making 55 percent of his shots. Green is shooting exactly the same percentage as he did last year. Basically, my point, I guess, is that we are about as good as last year’s team at PF (Green is still being his ultra-efficient self) and point guard. We are better everywhere else.

If people want to place the blame for last year’s disappointments on someone, it should be placed on the former players whose positions that have clearly been upgraded – wing/shooting guard and center. Roe was just not much of a contributor offensively and we’re better defensively this year too, though he was far from a liability on that end of the floor. It’s not his fault – he was hobbled by injury – but the bottom line is this year’s Payne/Nix are an obvious upgrade, at least on offense. Speaking of Nix – he could have gotten himself into shape last year, but didn’t, and as a result couldn’t contribute the way he is this year.

Summers was just not much of a factor on offense last year, and he wasn’t very good defensively either. His shooting percentage for the year was 38.8 percent (that includes both 2s and 3s) which is lower than any of this year’s wings by a heft margin. He never dished assists. Lucious shot 31 percent last year – Trice is shooting better this year and Appling and Wood are miles ahead of him. Wood is actually better this year than Appling was last year and much better than either Lucious or Summers. I just don’t see why everyone is blaming Lucas for last year, and no one is blaming Lucious and Summers (or Nix for not getting in shape) for last year’s disappointment. Roe’s health status absolves him from blame, but it’s clear that we just weren’t as good in the front court last year as we are this year. I repeat, I am not blaming Roe. He was dealt a very crappy hand and showed a lot of heart and grit by playing through pain. I really don’t think he was the major problem last year – it comes down to non-Lucas guard play and the fact that other players have improved and are healthy, which has resulted in an overall upgrade at that position.

by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST reply actions  

Summers to Wood

is one of the most important pieces of this equation too. Summers was a non-factor on offense last year, he barely tried. Yeah he rebounded okay, but that’s because he could jump like crazy.

The effort Wood has put in, both in terms of scoring, playing D and just plain fitting in with Izzo’s system has been phenomenal. Some including myself wondered where the hell he was in the first few games but he’s definitely stepped it up. He can score from anywhere, like Summers, but unlike Durrell he is always moving and he creates opportunities for other players. Plus the guy plays some real hustle D, he’s not a pushover like Durrell who wouldn’t even bother to run through a screen.

by Loneytunes on Jan 12, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I really like what Wood has done

He’s never tried to do too much. I don’t remember myself being upset about a shot he’s taken this year and he limits his mistakes with the ball. I also liked the way he quietly worked his way into understanding and fitting into the system and now he’s our third leading scorer and our best shooter. (I’m not counting the bigs of course, who have been pretty lights out, even Gauna. And I can’t remember the last time I saw Dawson take a jump shot.)

by one23 on Jan 13, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow. What if Anderson had stayed?

Completely forgot about him.
I wonder how Summers averages changed after 17 games.
I’m still stunned at how the careers of Summers and Allen ended here.

Those respected writers clearly know nothing about Izzo Ball. That team was ill equipped to succeed last year and I’m guilty of being sucked in by their ignorance. To confirm it wasn’t a fluke, they whiffed again this year.

To Coach Izzo’s comments about Lucious:
For some reason someone covering Iowa hoops asked the question, Coach Izzo didn’t bring him up. As for the response, well Duh!
Lucious was a quintessential back up PG with off court issues to boot.
Appling is a star. A centerpiece recruit who at this point has no confirmed off court or classroom transgressions.
I wouldn’t take the backup PG over the star in a million years either.
Good stuff double D!

"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"

by spartyball on Jan 12, 2012 11:27 AM CST reply actions  

Delvon Roe

Roe is the one I keep thinking about. What if Delvon could have been healthy this season providing even more stability to the front court?

by CoachGreen1 on Jan 12, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

what if Delvon could have been healthy AT ALL during his 3 years?

I feel like, as awesome as he was, he always seemed to underachieve a bit due to all those knee issues.

by hascow on Jan 12, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Dwaun

I wonder if he stayed, would one of he or Kearney have redshirted?

by MSUDersh on Jan 12, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Kearney would have

since he physically wasn’t as ready. But honestly I’m glad Dwaun didn’t show. I called the high school championship game that he lead Suttons Bay to and despite him being the clear star he really didn’t impress me that much (obviously he impressed Izzo the next year but whatever). He seemed to try and do it all himself too much, and he wasn’t good enough to do that even on a high school Division 4 level (or 3 I forget). His passing was suspect as well.

However physically Anderson would have been ready and I think we’d have seen some crazy dunks from him and that’s about it. His shot seemed on par with Kearney’s and his rebounding was a bit above. Either way neither player makes too much of an impact this year.

However I will say I think Kearney could be an NBA player, something I never saw for Dwaun. Put 15 pounds on Kearney he will start. One of the major knocks on him was that he was too unselfish, but with Appling, Dawson, Nix and probably Payne all starting next year having a guy who can act as a facilitator is a huge plus, as well as the fact that if need be Kearney can cut to the rack whenever he wants. When I saw him play in high school he COULD score at will he just didn’t because he was dishing it off to his teammates. I think that depending how his summer goes it’s not unreasonable to believe Kearney could play above Gary Harris next year.

by Loneytunes on Jan 12, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Simple Answer Yes

Lucas is still the most talented but our back court this year plays together.

Not to mention these guards are way better defensively. Lucas was not a great defender and Summers couldn’t check his shadow!

by MSUMC25 on Jan 12, 2012 12:09 PM CST reply actions  

Nice read...

thanks for going to the trouble.

by spartanbballfan on Jan 12, 2012 1:28 PM CST reply actions  

The Struggles of Last Year's Guards

I remember going into last year I thought we would be every bit as good as we were rated IF Durrell Summers could develop a handle… he was always a great shooter off the catch in space, and a good dunker when no one was near him, but his junior year he was exposed a bit as a guy who could not beat a statue off the bounce. Going into that summer if he had spent the entire time just working on his handle the entire season would have been different.

That seems like quite a claim but think about last year’s offense vs. this year’s offense and the real difference is that this year we have a bunch of guys who could beat a man off the dribble/ competently create offense from the perimeter (Appling, Trice, Wood, Green, and even occasionally Kearney and Branden Dawson—although he is in a similar situation to Durrell, in terms of needing to develop his handle). Last year we had…Kalin Lucas and…….. that was it (after Luscious got kicked off) having one person who is a threat off the bounce is never going to end well: any time summers got the ball on the wing he was tightly covered (think about how so many of his threes last year were better contested than they were his junior/sophomore year) because his defenders had read a scouting report that said: get in this guy’s grill he cannot dribble. When he tried to dribble he was awkward, did not have a tight handle, could not attack with his head up, and couldn’t cross over or go with his left… he was a 1-dimensional offensive player.

That meant that when things broke down people could shut the wings and force a not-100% Kalin to attack— because the wings were shut more frequently Kalin was doing more shooting than he did his junior and sophomore years (he also wasn’t passing because our bigs were not efficient in the post last year) people forget his sophomore year and even his junior year when he got a ton of assists because opposing teams had more multi-dimensional threats to worry about. If Summers had a handle that would’ve opened up so much more and would have allowed him to be more involved in the games—remember how everyone was wondering why he would disappear offensively? It was because all he could do was run around screens or stand in the corner…whereas this year how many times have we seen whoever is playing on the wing attack and either hit a runner, a layup, a pull up, dish it out, or dump it down (look at all the wing penetration we get after keith drives and hits either wood or dawson cutting from the wing…) it is just a more dynamic and flexible attack this year… that spells good guard play.

by TilltheBitterEnd on Jan 12, 2012 1:31 PM CST reply actions  

Agree with this and it applies to the whole team

I remember posting last year about our team’s lack of a guy (or guys) that could get you points when nothing was working by just taking their guy off the dribble. Lucas had that but the injury definitely hampered his ability to do that. Add to that the other guys not being able to attack off the dribble and we became very limited in our attack. Not sure if we’ve developed a guy that is the “crunch time” scorer yet this year but we definitely have guys who can attack of the dribble. Remains to be seen if Appling will be able to get points consistently if we go to a 1-4 attack…he definitely did against that Wisconsin guy with the left hand-fake crossover but can he do that against an athletic defender? I think so but time will tell. I like Green’s game tremendously but while he has some similarities to Magic, he hasn’t been a guy that could get points at will or create those points like Magic. Close but not quite.

by Drew Perkins on Jan 12, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

This year vs. Last year

Last year’s team was no fun to watch… too much underachieving! this year’s team is fun!

by Rob Codger on Jan 12, 2012 3:50 PM CST reply actions  

Very interesting post

Obviously its only a piece of the picture for many of the reasons already stated here by commenters, but it still provides a glimpse of what happened last year and what is happening this year.

I suppose I’ve been one of the main Kalin “detractors” on this board and I’d like to restate my thoughts here and clarify them a bit.

1. Kalin Lucas was a great Spartan. He lead us to 2 B1G titles, 1 Final Four (Not two as many claim), and won a Con POY. He was a great scorer and nearly single-handedly carried a massively dysfunctional team to the tournament last year. You don’t build that kind of resume at any school in the nation and not get remembered fondly.

2. Kalin Lucas’ legacy currently far outstripes Keith Appling’s. Keith has a high ceiling and is going to have a great deal of talent around him, but his current achievements are obviously far beneath those of Kalin. He is however, a Sophomore, so he has time.

3. Kalin Lucas’ best season at MSU was his incredible sophomore season and due to injuries, chemistry problems and lack of development in the other MSU players, his junior and senior seasons were not as accomplished as most expected heading in.

4. While Kalin’s on court play (when he wasn’t injured) was mostly stellar, he mostly failed as the team’s emotional leader (in an admittedly awful situation), which is a role senior PG stars are often expected to play.

5. Kalin Lucas does not deserve all, or even the majority of the blame for last year’s unpleasantness. He was however, a key cog on that team (see point 4) and should shoulder at least part of said blame.

6. Kalin often receives credit for the 2009-10 Final Four run. Since he was injured well before the Maryland game was decided and did not return for MSU’s ensuing 3 games I find this hard to fathom. Many of those giving Kalin credit claim it is for his role as a leader. Well if he gets the credit for leading that team to a Final Four while on the bench, he should certainly receive some blame for leading the 10-11 team so poorly while he was on the court.

by steinfi2 on Jan 12, 2012 5:52 PM CST reply actions  

Credit for the '10 Final Four

Definitely goes to Summers and Lucious. Also let’s not forget that Green had a great Tourney as well.

by Loneytunes on Jan 12, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Just wanted to say Great Post

You’ve represented us well.

I also like your handle.

by WatersDemos on Jan 12, 2012 9:18 PM CST reply actions  

Great Post but...

Unless I missed it in re-reading this post, I don’t see any mention of Keith Appling’s play last year as a member of the backcourt. KA played 780 minutes and started 18 games last season. He essentially slid into the role Korie Lucious vacated when he was dismissed/left the team. By the end of the season the backcourt consisted of Kalin and Keith with Kebler spelling them for rests and foul trouble, Summers had moved to the 3 spot. I realize that this post centers on the first 17 games of the season, but Keith was a major contributor then as well. Keith has developed greatly over the last calendar year, reflected by his increase in scoring and A/T ratio.

by Gym_Rat on Jan 13, 2012 7:30 AM CST reply actions  

Memo to basketball gods: OK! I GET IT!!!

I should never have posted this in the middle of the season! Please, just make it stop! I take it all back!

"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe

by Ducking Delvon on Feb 1, 2012 9:53 AM CST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A Michigan State basketball and football blog community

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Help the Big 10 represent and beat the SEC!
Small
Boise State 2012 Preview
Dawson-michigan-state-600x370_small
The Double Standard in SI's Power Rankings
Dawson-michigan-state-600x370_small
Adreian not Bringing the Payne?
Delvonduck_small
MSU Spring Game Fantasy Contest!
Small
Thank Goodness Adreian Payne is OK
200_small
You're a mean one, Mr. Ryan
Small
Snapper Signing Hits the Double Bonus
Small
Derrick Nix arrested and suspended
Sparty_statue2_small
You Better Believe I'll Take It

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Petenewpic_small Pete Rossman

Spiritofd_small LVS

Contributors

Square_sun_small Steve Hendershot

Marvin_small SpartanDan

State_small Con-T

Adorno5_small intrpdtrvlr

Ph2_small patrick_hayes

Spartan_troll_face_2_small HeckDorland

Mug_vanini_chris__2__small ChrisVannini