Game Thread -- THE Michigan State Spartans at the Michigan Wolverines
by Pete Rossman on Jan 17, 2012 5:00 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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PrintMichigan St. Spartans at Michigan Wolverines, Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM CST
Your MICHIGAN STATE SPARTANS vs the MICHIGAN WOLVERINES
THE CRISLER CENTER -- ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN
TUESDAY, JANUARY 17th, 2012, 7:00 PM EST
TV: ESPN
ONLINE RADIO FEED: Spartan Sports Network
AWWWWWWWWWWWWW HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE. Basketball has been a bit off its axis ever since Michigan State lost twice to UM, but things are different this year. The Spartans haven't dismissed anyone from the team during the season, there's actual post scoring, and no one on MSU is recovering from an ACL injury suffered the season previous. The good news this time? MSU will get another shot at Michigan if they lose today, but I don't want to think that possibility. Nope nope nope.
This is the game thread. Same rules as always mis amigos: No links to illegal game threads, no slurs, and be cool to one another. Now let's enjoy the hell out of this game.
GO GREEN, GO WHITE, BEAT MICHIGAN.
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Stay out of foul trouble.
That is all. Go Green.
by rook34 on Jan 17, 2012 5:02 PM CST via mobile reply actions
MSU & UM will show up.
Hope Eddy Hightower does not show up or the officials from Wisc game
U-M had Hightower Sat. at Iowa
So I hope they don’t get him back to back.
The three for the UNL @ Wisc game were Bob Donato, Tim Clougherty, & Bo Boroski.
I didn’t see the game, but I can see that Wisc shot 24 FTs to UNL’s 2, and was called for only 7 fouls to UNL’s 19. Yikes
Yeah Wisc only hit two triples all game
They scored 50 total: 26 from 2, 6 from 3, 18 from FT line.
Also, the two teams combined for 12 assists on 34 FGs, and 19 turnovers. And it was a 52 possession game. Must have set basketball back 60 years.
Can't bear lose Victor Martinez and this game both.
Save the day, Spartans.
by lesmanalim on Jan 17, 2012 5:17 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah that SUCKS about VMart
He was perfect behind Miggy in the lineup, and right now Tim Kurkijan going off on ESPN about how he’s the best “clubhouse guy” & teammate in MLB.
Draymond - no more bad jumpers
Draymond needs to plant himself in the middle of that zone and:
1. Kick out to a shooter
2. Feed down low to Nix/Payne
3. Post up himself
If he hangs around the perimeter, we have no chance against the zone.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/terry-wymer
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/earl-walton
I’m not sure how to decipher these, but apparently games in which Valentine is a ref have the least amount of fouls called per game.
FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu..
Valentine = kiss of death. UM will have no less than a +15 FT advantage. Suck.
Nice to join you all for another MSU bball game.
Let’s hope that Izzo wants to go inside to our bigger, more athletic front line.
From @JoeRexrode:
Interesting Beilein move to start Douglass for Smotrycz. So Green will guard Novak to start. And U-M will have to come out in zone, I think
kind of nervous
dont want to lose this one.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
dont think they can guard appling.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Well the first four minutes went pretty poorly
But U-M is playing NO defense, especially inside, other than reaching in to tip passess/dribbles.
They haven’t put a body on anybody. Our guys just need to pound it inside for good looks, and sooner or later, M will start fouling, too.
Must stay on their men like glue on D to force tough & contested shots. Crash the boards on D, M’s zone looks shitty so far so no need to try to beat it down the floor running every time.
All in all...
… Things could be MUCH worse after U of M started hot and we started cold. State just needs to calm things down and keep getting good shots inside
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Very nice looking second 4 minutes
Got back by 1 point, but look to be playing better on both ends. U-M has nothing on us inside.
BTW, zero whistles so far . . . . .
Morgan & Hardaway sitting for M
AT, Nix & Appling out for us.
Now is time to do some damage, McLimans & Vogrich can’t handle Payne or Green at all
zone helps
payne is way taller though. nice hook there.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Too many of our guys have gotten use to making the block
after letting the man past him. UM has done their scouting, they’re going for reverse layups
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Bring in BK on D
if he can’t keep up with Burke, at least he can catch him from behind with those long arms
Good point.
It’s probably worth a shot, at this point.
Just find SOMETHING that works.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
Dangerous time right now
with appling ont he bench
A little early to make that judgement
I’d say they deserve to be down 7
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
If you would've told me this team would be blowing by us all game
I would have told you you were crazy…
We're liable
to give up 80 points again tonight….
Great so back down 6 at this timeout
Smotrcyz 71% from the line, let’s hope this is one of those three of ten
With all his tools Payne should not struggle this much on defense
think his confidence on D is off. He just looks out of sync
My theory is his athleticism
has let him get away with a lot of sloppy positioning on defense. He goes for the block a lot, but this often comes after the other guy has gotten past him
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
So far, State is down 6 (probably 7)
And Tim Hardaway Jr. has nothing to do with it…
That’s pretty unacceptable.
Nice take by appling
Gotta finish. And also someone has to be traling him
Yeah from the angle on TV
and rewound on DVR, it looked all ball, let’s see the under the basket camera
It was.
ESPECIALLY after that call on Appling.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
Hardaway looks awful tonight
Not a great pass from Burke, but Hardaway has to move his feet & get that
we're not matching their intensity
unbelievable. 2 games in a row, Izzo doesn’t have this team ready
um isnt a bad team
only down 6. can cut it to 3 here. not perfect but not horrible either.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
That's a lot of doom and gloom
for a number 9 team down 6 in the first half on the road to the number 19 team in the country.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
it's just a continuation of the NW game
No d. We look completely lost on defense. Lost.
D's been bad, sure.
But they’ve got 3 stops in a row. If it keeps getting worse and worse, then you’ve got a point.
Maybe I’m just being too optimistic waiting for this to turn around though…
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
um, we're down 6 on the road toa ranked team
There have been defensive breakdowns, and there is definitely room to play better. But they aren’t exactly stinking out the building rightnow
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Appling, Green, Nix & BK are bringing it
Dawson trying but looks lost, Payne & TT look rough. AT cameo looked fine.
Speaking of which...
… Did AT piss Izzo off?
He hasn’t been back on the floor since his first appearance, right?
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
I love the call by Izzo to have the players play through that Michigan run
They’re going to kick UM’s ass the rest of the half
Blown call on Green layup should have been two
And Hardaway shouldn’t have gotten two on the Appling foul, that was a clean held ball.
So IMO, should be 1-1 for U-M, and two FTs for Green
In fairness it's not like UM is living at the line
they are not calling much on anyone right now
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
Kept it at 6
Would love it if they can go into the half tied, but 5 or less is nearly a win in itself
It's about trends at this point
I want to see solid defense for the rest of the half
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
love that move
payne is too tall.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Should get TT's
Wood playing better D, and can shoot, though TT best 3 pt shooter on team this season
As garbage as Payne has been on D
He’s looked very good on the block.
ANOTHER layup look late in the shot clock….
nice shot BK
love that kid’s potential. Reminds of Charlie Bell.
Their guy was there for the follow up
So they probably would have had the points anyway, but one fewer foul called on us would be nice
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
our turn second half
thats how it goes, right?
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Ugh come on
Nice run to cut it to 1 and then the last 60 seconds happened
man i like our freshman
but then i remember that their freshmen
by chuggingspartan on Jan 17, 2012 6:42 PM CST reply actions
Still, though.
State had the rock…
Can’t fault the execution, though.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
Well this is not what I wanted coming home from work.
I’d be happier if this game was not taking place.
If this team can remember how to play defense
We can easily come back
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
shit we are playing NW ball.
everyone looks “soft”
never understood
the police escort for coaches. are there that many attacks on coaches to warrant that?
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Michigan has played as well as they can
and they needed brain cramps and some questionable calls to be up seven. This game should be 20. That said, a much better defensive effort needed in the second half or it will end around 20.
In Izzo We Trust.
16 lousy minutes and 4 quality minutes
If we can reverse that in the second half, we’ll win.
After the game, why not check out www.zazzle.com/donnierocky*
Unreal
They had it to a one point game with one minute in the half, then BK does the inexcusable & gives up the four point play, then Trice with the bad turnover that turns into two Hardaway FTs at the other end. We’re luck that wasn’t a three point play.
I think some of that turnover was on Payne
the ball went right by him – easier to tell on the replay. I think he said recently the bigs need to wake up for those.
by spartanbballfan on Jan 17, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
Our bigs really need to always be following the ball (in addition to battling for position) and be ready for quick passes, this team is not shy about sharing it in search of the best shot
UM 5th home game already. 0-2 on road.
their stretch is going to be fun the next 10 days. On the road at OSU, at Purdue, @Arkansas, IU home and @MSU. they might lose all Big ten road games in the next 10 days.
Let's send them off with a nice loss to their rival
Pound it inside all night, men, they can’t stop it once our bigs get it down low, and can’t out-rebound our guys.
I really wish Dawson wasn’t such a liability on D, because in a game like this he could easily get 6-8 o boards & like 8-10 points just off of those
Not worried about them
We have a tough stretch. this is a game we need to come back and win.
After the game, why not check out www.zazzle.com/donnierocky*
we need to start playing D
Nix, payne and Dawsen struggling on D. tough spot for Izzo when only green is playing D
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like Nix gets in whenever Morgan's on the floor.
Can’t afford to have him on the floor if he’s gotta cover a guard-ish type.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Can't make FTs if fouls aren't called
Draymond got hacked pretty badly at one point
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
::shrug:
It’s not like they haven’t been getting the ball inside/shooting layups. They just haven’t gotten fouled (or gotten the calls).
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
Michigan got called for two fouls.
Granted, we didn’t get called for many either, but two in a half is absurd.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Valentine usually errs on the side of calling everything.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Hightower's a weird case.
He calls everything on the perimeter and nothing in the lane.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
How was he not inside the circle on that?
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
So Appling now has more fouls than Michigan's entire team.
This is insane.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
That was pretty.
Dangerous, but pretty.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
god
two stops in a row would be so sexy right now
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
agree
but appling has 3 fouls so going back to him would be a risk
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
Novak is always there to make our great plays look greater.
That kid is “little bitch” personified IMHE.
He does indeed play and I respect him for that.
But he really comes off sometimes like the most ineffectual bitchy kid whose self estimation is way beyond his actual abilities.
Last possession on defense was scary
We can’t afford to tap it around. Grab the ball.
Also, Wood should probably be sitting.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
AT & Payne coming in
Gotta keep feeding Payne down low, as long as M can’t slap it away before he’s able to secure it & hold it high, he can just turn & elevate above everybody
Come on Payne bad goaltend
That was an awful shot, gotta just position for the board. Second goaltend vs. us
If I am being unbiased
Denard Robinson is a pretty charismatic dude. Ahh, nevermind. He’s an asshole
I'm not convinced that was on the way down.
If he got it after it hit the backboard, it’s a goaltend. I wasn’t sure he didn’t hit it into the backboard, though.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Valentine special right there.
crap call
That was legit.
I didn’t think he was outside the circle, but on the replay he was.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
danger time
if it gets to 10, i don’t see us coming back
I don't think he has an agenda.
I think he’s just completely incompetent.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
All Big 10 officials have the same agenda
Make sure the home team wins so more teams have a shot at the tourney. It’s why they all go out in the first weekend.
In Izzo We Trust.
ugh.
could be redwings time soon. talk me off the ledge.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Can we get a 50/50 call at some point
either a charge or an out of bounds or something?
Obviously not.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Big, big 3 for AT there.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
DENNARD ROBINSON CHANGED SHIRTS!
STOP THE PRESSES EVERYBODY, HE’S IN THE STUDENT SECTION WITH THE UNWASHED MASSES!
(Wow, I hate ESPN.)
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
Unwashed masses?
Then his dreads should fit right in
by MSUDersh on Jan 17, 2012 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much
Denard’s thankful he doesn’t have to play the Spartans, because, well, he can’t beat them.
Trice let him get a little too far past him for that ammount of contact
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I don't disagree, IF they had been calling it that tight all game
But for much of it they were allowing all kinds of hand checking and bumping away from the basket
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
If we're not careful...
… We’ll start making a move after the game’s been decided.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Seen that show a few too many times recently
UCLA and Duke come to mind
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
these calls are killing me
the charges and MI not picking up anything on defense
predict msu next shot
forced three of feed the post?
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
honestly
if depaul played at their gym on campus. I would go to a lot of games.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
thats a looooong train ride and then walk.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
to the Pavilion!
And the UIC Flames.
I would suggest becoming a CSU fan, but I could never in good conscience send someone to 95th Street.
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 7:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
could be a good sign
We never lose when he’s around
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Wood got caught in no-man's-land there.
Nice bail-out by Appling on the fast break D.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Uh oh. Somebody's closer.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
IS DENARD STILL DANCING
I NEED UPDATES E$PN
by cwel87 on Jan 17, 2012 7:21 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Yea Baby
Let’s keep the run going this time. We’ve gotten close too many times
hows our d looking?
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
d is holding
they havent beat us in awhile. getting a lot of bailout fouls
Very erratic.
Some great possessions (Appling with a beautiful steal on a 2-on-2 break), some ugly ones.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
better this half
still not exactly “lock down”
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
Bad.
Though, the last ten or so possessions have been a LOT better.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
generally
who are the people behind the visitors bench? parents?
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Exactly what the doctor ordered.
Big layup from Kool Keith sandwiched between two huge threes by AT and BW.
Marcus Rush on twitter
“Too bad denard can’t smile like that on the football field”
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
by Seer on Jan 17, 2012 7:22 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
how come every time we get within a possesion we give them 6 points back?
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
novak
cannot be stopped when playing us.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Reset to 15 if it's less than that.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I assume it got poked away from behind as he went up for the shot.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
i almost threw my drink
at the tv if valentine said that was um ball.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
UM plan to beat MSU
use pick n roll to death
Any hoops uber geeks here?
Who’s good in the SEC? It’s probably the conference I know the least about.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
aside from Kentucky
Florida has been in and out of the rankings.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
push
thats like 7 for morgan. been doing it all night.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Also,
Denard has 3 TDs on 180 yds rushing & 5-14 passing for 210
by MSUDersh on Jan 17, 2012 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kearney in the rotation with under 8 to go
He’s been earning it aside fromt he one bad foul
ooo babay
sexy time.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
by tbone521 on Jan 17, 2012 7:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
KEARNEY BABY
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
No more references to Denard please
We’re playing a different sport, and this just strikes of ressentiment.
well if ESPN is gonna keep cutting to him
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
Then . . .
Waiting for the independent clause to kick in.
Otherwise I’m left wondering where the relevance is.
He's the starting qb for our biggest rival
Despite that nobody mentioned him until ESPN insisted on showing him repeatedly. It’s a game thread. People frequently comment on the things that those producing the game choose to show.
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
TICKETS TO THE GAME: $50
BASIC CABLE MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION: $40
tHE LOOK ON DENARD’S FACE: PRICELESS
by cwel87 on Jan 17, 2012 7:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Damn Burke
Yea he is good. I’ll give him that
AT BACK AT YOU BITCH
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
now it looks like michigan cant make their free throws
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
Just giving Nix an extra minute of rest before the under 4 timeout.
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
agree on that last one on Appling
Couple of the others were more questionable. And when they come late it just adds to the the questionable nature
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
bad movement by MSU..looked rotten without NIX and BK
WOOD, PAyne =garbage tonite
That was a bail out call for M
Green was wide open. Really, ref, a 6’even, 180 lb aAppling is going to knock down 6’10, 260 Morgan?
have to call those...but blame Izzo for removing Nix.
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Nix can’t play the last 6+ minutes with only one TV timeout.
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Appling is strong . . . .
Green missed the shot anyways, but the foul trouble on Appling is the bigger issue.
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
are they mazed and confused? ZING
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
Oh they don't worry about stuff like
Having a clever name, or putting up gramatically correct tweets:
If you can’t get into college go to state
hey man, their GPA was .2 higher than ours when they were sophomores in high school
superior intelligence proven.
He'll be in soon
with 2 mins to go no later
by Chitown Spartan on Jan 17, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
Big rebound.
He was doing whatever he could to get it on frame and Hardaway made a dumb fould.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yea closing lineup if i were coach
Appling, BK, Thornton, Green, Nix
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
he's playing the best basketball of his MSU career right now
And it couldn’t come at a more timely time
or appling
not sure if this game is even close if appling isn’t playing
WAY TO GO AT THAT WAS CLUTCH
"We had a special either chicken or fish". "Yes I remember I had lasanga"
RIP Leslie Nielson
Leave Thornton in!!
Never thought I’d mean that.
by WatersDemos on Jan 17, 2012 7:44 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
whats it gonna take to win?
obviously some good defense. but offensively? I think weve been most effective working it inside.
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
Appling time again?
Even with 4 fouls he has to give us more on defense right?
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
So back in the day,
Izzo & MSU were known for being the best at drawing up & running plays out of a timeout.
Coach, let’s see if you have some of that magic still in you!!
Fucking awful play by Appling & AT there
Cannot inbound it just inside of the half court line like that, for exactly that reason
Wonderful rebounding there, but you have to finish.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
asking for him to get fouled in that situation though
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
So?
He’s shooting them reasonably well this year.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Go fast I think.
Give yourself two shots at it.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
That was discombobulated.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
um no
It’s a huge hit but we are still tied for first in the conference
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
Huge uphill battle now
Now we have to win it on the road, before this week we could have won it at home
by Chitown Spartan on Jan 17, 2012 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
which puts us in the same position as everyone else
I have believed all along OSU is the best team in teh conference. But they have not looked unbeatable. We are contenders along with a few other teams
by trivialstuff16 on Jan 17, 2012 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
Lots of teams are going to lose at Michigan this year.
This is not the time to panic. We’ve got one tough road win already in the books, which is more than most of the other contenders can say.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Hats off to UM
They deserved the W and MSU didn’t.
A fantastic look.
You have to hit that.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't need to be off-balance or leaning though.
He rushed it. Just stop, wait a beat and hit the easy jumper.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
solid look
a Michigan State and Michigan blog: http://onrivalries.blogspot.com/
by tbone521 on Jan 17, 2012 8:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
ugh
We played pretty terrible most of the game, especially down the stretch where we had some really bad possessions. Could have had this, but totally didn’t deserve it. Credit to UM.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 7:55 PM CST reply actions
+1
UM was the better team tonight. Bummer.. as brutal as the rest of the big ten is MSU really needed that one.
all is not lost
we’ve played a ton of road games, and even though the schedule gets tougher, I feel like we’ll be better prepared. This is a young team, and the Northwestern and UM games are tough situations to handle.
Need Wood to get his act together, he really struggled tonight taking a lot of bad shots.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
Turned on the Red Wings
just in time to see Dallas tie up that game. Stupid sports
One again
Ted Valentine changing the course of a game with his foul calls on Appling.
Lousy Michigan team. I don’t care what anyone says. Worst loss of the season to those fucking clowns. Burke’s the only legit player.
In Izzo We Trust.
You have to give them credit...
they abused MSU’s defense (especially Payne) for large stretches.
+1
Burke was really good.
Nobody else did anything.
That game should’ve been won.
Could’ve used Dawson in there at the end instead of Wood who struggled.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Wood =garbage, Payne= bad, dawsen =worse
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Your attitude after every game = moronic.
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
Without Burke, they're nothing.
Played as bad as we could, and still they only won by one.
Northwestern’s better. Period.
In Izzo We Trust.
blame Izzo
why put Payne in when Nix was playing so well.. kept Appling in the bench for so long…no FG’s in last 5 mins
no seriously...we put Wood and Payne in after last time out
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
Respectfully, sir
I like your contributions generally, but mere use of the word “blame” for a close loss on the road to a good B1G team is dumb IMHE.
Especially when talking about Izzo. I’m not a “no criticism” guy at all; but they hung in there and made our school proud, and Izzo put them in a position to do so.
M won – go back to your lives now.
One nugget of truth in there.
Sitting a player who’s in foul trouble, at least as aggressively as most coaches do, seems pretty silly to me. You’re trying to avoid having him get taken out of the game by … taking him out of the game. (And I’m not sure the “you need him for the last few minutes” logic holds up; you might want him out there in the final minutes of a close game, sure, but is the game going to be close if you hold him out for 15 minutes?)
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I'm with you on the Appling thing
You need your best players in there if they’re available in crunch time. Sitting Appling so late is basically like having him foul out, at least for the time he’s gone.
Still, had a chance to win even on the last possession, and that was pretty good D by the Wolverines. Get ’em next time.
Hey! I'm tryin' to eat lunch here!
FOR THE 50TH TIME, he took out Nix because Nix can’t play for more than a few minute at a time.
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
he can't play last 2 mins when the game is on the line?
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe not. Who do you think knows more about Nix’s playing ability: Tom Izzo, his staff, and Nix OR you?
by SpartanBoiler on Jan 17, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure we would have gone to Nix with the game on the line anyway
Not sure what Wood was in there for. He looked intimidated all night.
For the future’s sake, would like to see some of his minutes start to go to Kearney. The kid seems to have earned more PT.
In Izzo We Trust.
For all the talk about terrible defense
UM finished with 60 points. the D in teh first half was not good. But it was much, much better in the second.
It was offensive execution late that really hurt us in my opinion
it's not that
It’s tone. Everyone is either garbage or else everyone is pathetic. Everything is about contempt.
Because coach has scripted so many plays after time outs and he put Wood and Payne in.
after the last media time out. I know Appling has 4 but that is the game right there. we did not score any FG’s after that.
by spartynation on Jan 17, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not even talking about Izzo here.
When you get emotional, you start layering on contempt. No one likes to hear that.
You say it all the time, even when it's obviously wrong and even when we win.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
I guess if I am bothering guys here then it is time for me to resign from posting at TOC.
I am a passionate MSU alum and if people don’t like what I post then it is time for me to stop posting. Thanks for all the great memories over the years. Thanks to KJ for starting the original bball blog.
Cheers,
Go Green.
by spartynation on Jan 18, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I think everyone is welcome here
It’s just that the pessimism can be draining. Stick around! Just look on the bright side once in a while.
I would have thought
that in a game with so few fouls called we would win, because it likely meant that they were allowed to be physical with Burke and really wear him down.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 8:01 PM CST reply actions
UM played phsyical/fouling defense...
for some reason MSU didn’t on the other end.. who knows. i would have thought it would really favor MSU too.
we really had no answer for Burke
he could get to the rim pretty much whenever he wanted. I would have thought Izzo wanted to come out and bump him on hedges and be physical – he’s just not a big guy and can’t take teh pounding, but I just didn’t see it. Maybe it was due to the foul calls on Appling forcing him to be more tentative, but overall, I really thought there would be a huge emphasis on stopping Burke. Do that and UM becomes very ordinary.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
Michigan man here
Good game, I thought you guys were gonna take it. The high double team on Burke in the 2nd half was killing our offense. See you at Breslin, hope it’s a good game – we got our work cut out for us there.
Respect.
Honestly. Being on the road in the B1G is not a fun place to be.
State had their chances down the stretch to win. UM got their one late chance and took it. Hopefully the Bres is a different story.
by The Birchman on Jan 17, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
Burke's special.
Can’t believe he wasn’t heavily recruited. Beilein has a nose for talent and maximizes guys who couldn’t play elsewhere. Guys like Novak, especially.
Why couldn’t they have hired another Brian Ellerbee?
In Izzo We Trust.
so if I read you right, Beilein has a nose for talent but Burke is the only talented player.
I don’t get it.
Yes. Beilein finds guys who fit his system.
Credit to him. Most of those guys couldn’t play major D-1 ball anywhere else.
In Izzo We Trust.
Hardaway is overrated, IMO
He is talented and athletic, but doesn’t seem to have a great feel for the game, strikes me as one-dimensional, and too often drifts away from the basket, negating his biggest advantage. He was virtually nonexistent tonight.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Saturday coming back home vs Purdue
Now that is a “must win” for conference purposes in my opinion
Yeah, gotta hold serve at home.
It would not surprise me if five losses wins the conference, but there are enough tough games on the road (we still have Illinois, Indiana, OSU, Purdue, and Minnesota on the road) that we can’t afford to lose at home.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Can't afford to lose to two middling big ten teams in a row either
MSU going to have to have a pretty special rest of the season to content I feel. Feel like @Indiana, @Illinois, @purdue, and @osu will all be tougher games than @UM was.
Agreed.
It’s what seperates the great teams from good teams.
Gotta beat teams some of the team you are better than on the road. The last two games were classic examples of that.
In Izzo We Trust.
These types of posts have very little perspective.
They’re college kids. And so far they’ve far outperformed their expectations.
“Can’t afford,” “unacceptable” . . .
What happens if they do something they “can’t afford”? Of if some random fan thinks their efforts are “unacceptable”?
Perspective of what, exactly?
This comment is completely absurd. Are you here to discuss sports or talk philosophy? If its the latter, I think you may have missed this memo that this is a Sports blog.
In the perspective of the B1G Basketball universe, and whether or not this Spartan team can win a B1G Regular Season Championship, saying something like “can’t afford to lose to two middling Big Ten teams in a row” makes sense. They cannot afford to waste those opportunities if they want to reach their goals.
Why do you insist on bringing philosophy into a sports comments section? They are discussing what this team will be able to accomplish this season, goals they have set for themselves. Why can’t we discuss whether or not they’re able to and how they’d be able to achieve them?
Sure they’re college kids, but that doesn’t mean that they’re goals are anymore diminished. Let me answer your questions easily: 1. If they lose more games to crappy teams, they will not win a Big Ten Championship. 2. Their life will go on because they probably don’t read this blog.
I think you read between the lines waaaaaaay too much and try to philosophize these arguments. Sure, their lives will go on after basketball, but for the time being, they’re playing for a championship, and it’s definitely acceptable for us to discuss it.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
I also kind of feel like we'll take two of those
@ILL and @PUR, is my guess, with @IU a possibility as well. Izzo (and Green) will get the kids to focus and learn from mistakes. I like that he thinks there’s a high ceiling for this team.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Jan 17, 2012 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure about Purdue.
They got clobbered at Penn State, lost at home to Wisconsin, and are losing at home to Iowa right now.
In any case, tonight was a coin flip that came up tails. Illinois isn’t much tougher, although Indiana and OSU certainly are.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
great scheduling by Illinois
take a week off and take over 1st place
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
yah
the last 2 games were must wins if MSU wants a title. People don’t like hearing that, but it’s true. MSU won’t win the title now. A 4 or 5 seed is still possible, but we have to split the rest of the hard road games and win out at home.
Really, though,
who would have thought we’d even be worried about a Big 10 title with this team. If someone had told me before the season we’d be 15-4 right now, I would have taken that.
In Izzo We Trust.
i agree,
but we now have to lower our expectations from where they were a week ago.
yep
the team is in a good spot
may or may not win the conference
but losing to the piss and blue will always suck more than anything can suck
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
?
Split the rest of the hard road games and win out at home, and you’re talking a team with 6-7 losses on the season against a reasonably tough non-conference schedule and in the best conference in the nation. That’s 3 seed territory at worst.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Like I said
15-4 right now is pretty good for a team that came in unranked and picked 5th or so. Credit to Green and his leadership. And Izzo, although everyone seems pissed at him for some reason.
In Izzo We Trust.
no way
we’re looking at 3, 4, 5th place maybe in the conference. We’re not going to be a 3 seed in the tourney.
I don't care about seeding
Izzo has them ready when the tourney starts. Except last year, but that’s on Lucas and Summers and their lack of leadership.
In Izzo We Trust.
Big East teams have gotten 3 seeds with much, much worse records.
And the Big Ten this year is at least as good as the Big East has ever been. (Besides that, split the tough road games and win the rest, as you suggested, gets us to 14-4 in conference. That’s not 4th or 5th place. That’s hanging a banner. Nobody is getting through this gauntlet with only two or three losses.)
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Big East has magical powers..
If you can squeek out at least 3 or 4 wins in that conference you’re automatically one of the greatest teams in the history of college sports. If you win their tournament – you’re automatically a lock for the final four and deserve a top3 seed regardless of your regular season record.
I got berated
for saying exactly that against NW and again here tonight, but its true. You need to win the winnable games on the road and defend your home court, because beating the contender teams on the road is so so so difficult.
by Chitown Spartan on Jan 17, 2012 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, so you looked into the crystal ball, eh?
You’re pushing the panic button this early?
We lost to a team we won’t play again on the road, which featured an offense we don’t face on a regular basis (especially the newcomers) and a defense that took us out of our game and a road rivalry game against a pretty decent team (I still hate those nasty rodents though).
We are definitely still in the hunt. And you act like getting to the 4 or 5 is going to be an uphill battle. We’ll be ok.
Step away from the ledge.
Bleeding Green and White since 1989.
Sadly the voice of reason for MSU sports - Joe Rexrode - agrees that is over..
and MSU is now out of the big ten race.
http://noise.typepad.com/hey_joe/2012/01/u-m-60-msu-59.html
First sentence: “You know what this really means? That MSU isn’t going to win the Big Ten this season.”
Schedule strongly favors some teams
Michigan fan here, good game, thought State would win.
Regarding losses to middling teams, I just checked the schedule. Of the current top teams (MSU, OSU, IL, & UofM,) MSU & IL have slightly easier schedules than OSU & UofM. More specifically, every team in the conference has eighteen games, with four “one plays.” MSU has five games vs. other top 3 teams, and five games vs. the bottom 3 teams (Minn., Nebraska, and Penn State.) Looking at your schedule, you should be favored. You have two away games vs. tough competition (OSU & IL.) The balance of your schedule is against weaker competition, and at home.
Not sure I see it that way
We play PSU only once, NW only once, Iowa only once, and Purdue only once. Your one plays are Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, and Minnesota. I’d call it pretty much a wash at best – PSU=Nebraska, Minny=NW, Iowa=Iowa, and Wisconsin=Purdue. Strength of schedule wise, I don’t see that either one of us has a significant advantage over the other. I guess we may have a slight advantage in remaining schedule but that means we’ve played a tougher schedule to date.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 18, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take the opportunity to say
Good game for AT.
He really would’ve been a hero tonight. Gave the team a chance.
And of course BK. My man-crush on him continues to grow.
I wish Dawson would’ve played more.
He had a good defensive possession on Burke, scored on the layin and then was done for the night.
I would think when you decide to go smallball with Green at the 5, Dawson would be on the court. He might’ve rebounded that Appling miss before the lead was lost.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Izzo ripping on Kearney and freshmen...
I thought Kearney outplayed most of his other guards.
you thought right
BK can play.
I think Burke got into Keith’s head as well as Trice.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
I don't understand the calling out of his freshman
It was his senior leader who missed the last shot. Not that I’d want anyone else taking that.
They way the game is nowadays, freshman are going to play a role. For better or worse.
In Izzo We Trust.
I agree.
In fact, I don’t like Izzo “calling out” any individual player.
They’re college kids Mr. Izzo. They have class tomorrow morning. You make millions.
not watching or listening to the postgame
But weird quotes on twitter.
Saying Trice and Kearney aren’t ready for a game like this.
Then later quoted saying young guys played well.
Apparently Nix asked to be taken out late inthe game.
Says they didn’t get Green the ball enough
I thought BK looked good
Dawson was the one that looked out of it
and is Nix gaining weight?
he’s looking rounder than he did at the beginning of the year
Needs to End
The public chastising of players by Izzo needs to be ended. There needs to be a higher standard of conduct expected and Hollis or Simon should make it clear that these public tongue-lashings are not acceptable. Izzo is a heck of a coach, but he has a tendency to publicly place the blame for disppointing outcomes on the freshman, the scout team, the fans. Who among us would want his boss telling the world we had a bad day at work and we are to blame for something that didn’t work out the way we hoped it would? It’s not the way you treat those you respect.
After the game, why not check out www.zazzle.com/donnierocky*
Indeed, sir.
Well said, and I agree.
Goddammit I really like TOC because it attracts the most civil and objective of us. Good job TOC guys for bringing us together without the crazies. This is as close as we’ll get to an MSU community of the virtuous.
In Izzo's defense RE: calling out players in the media
I’ts often done in response to questions from the media, for example, he was asked how he felt his freshman played, and replied honestly. After the NW game, he was asked why he felt his team looked so unprepared to defend the backdoor plays that everybody knew NW would be running all game, and he replied that the scout team didn’t do it’s job. Just like how he praised the scout team during the 15 game streak for getting the first stringers ready every week.
The media & everybody else knows that Izzo doesn’t speak in cliches, and is honest to a fault. So it should surprise nobody when he lists names of players who he felt did poorly.
maybe so
but in the postgame show with Double G he serves up names unsolicited.
It’s uncalled for, unnecessary and pretty disgusting.
Gus always asks positive softball questions but Coach Izzo can’t help himself.
It looks in the press conference he did take some blame himself.
In the heat of the moment after the game he calls out the players.
I’m thinking the media types hear this and then ask the questions at the presser to get blame on the record.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Oh ok wasn't aware of that
I’m in Chicago so as far as I know, local media doesn’t carry GG’s show. I was only thinking about questions asked by the media post game (the post game presser that Rexrode, Solari, Charbenau, etc report from). And that’s the presser that involves not just MSU media, but opponent & national as well, who I would expect to ask more controversial stuff than the people who see TI all the time.
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 10:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I listen on spartan sports network
Get pre and postgame as well as the game itself.
Visuals only from the TV
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Oh like listen to the ipad msu radio app?
I put that on ours but never even thought of using it for Gus. Thanks for the suggestion!
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 11:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I can't get the app on Ipad
the app store says it’s only on Iphone so I listen on the computer at spartansportsnetwork.com
when away from the computer I listen to Super Talk 1570am on the TuneIn Radio app.
I prefer partisan MSU bball game coverage.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Oh you can run iPhone apps on the ipad
They just look small, but hit the 2x button in lower right to make them full screen. But the rotation to landscape mode doesn’t work.
The SBNation app is a phone app, but works (though just use Safari to visit TOC).
I agree, and I don't understand why he blamed the freshmen
It’s not like they played any worse than Green or Appling, both of whom had Offensive ratings well below 100 last night. Maybe the screwups were on D, but we play a complicated defensive scheme and it’s reasonable to expect the freshmen to take some time getting it down pat. No one who played significant minutes save Austin Thornton and Nix had very good games. Payne only played about 14 minutes, Dawson 12, and Kearney 12, so they were conspicuous only by their lack of playing time.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 18, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Poor 1st Half D is to blame
Let’s give UM credit. It’s not a fluke, they are a well-coached, scrappy good team. Burke is a great frosh and I think an upgrade over Morris so I predict they finish higher this year because of it. As much as I cannot stand Novak, he is money against us. Can’t wait to play them again in the Breslin, we’ll only have to wait 19 days.
I think our main issue is good old fashion man to man defense. Beilein had a great strategy to isolate our weak defenders off the dribble 1 on 1, especially in the 1st half. At the end of the game, Hardaway blew by Wood to get a layup. When Evan S was in the game, he also blew by his defenders. Burke got what he wanted too for much of the 1st half. I really thought the game changed when Kearney game in to play D vs. Burke. BK, AT, and Nix nearly won this game for us. Our bench outscored our starters (30 to 29).
I know people are harping on how poorly Wood and Payne played, but Appling played terribly in the last 2 minutes forcing shots up and Draymond only scored 7 points and had 5 TOs. I love, love, love Draymond, but honestly, he did not play that well.
When your 2 best players do not step up in the final 5 minutes, you can’t expect the bench to save you. All that and we still almost won away against a Top 20 team. Not all is lost.
If we get some growth and improvement from Dawson, Payne, and Trice, we will be fine.
by greensincebirth on Jan 17, 2012 11:29 PM CST reply actions
Another huge mistake by Appling late
Was when AT was inbounding the ball to him out of a timeout with around 2 minutes to go.
In college hoops, you can receive the ball anywhere from out of bounds, including in the backcourt (in the NBA that’s an over & back out of the throw in).
With AT inbounding just on the offensive side of the mid-court stripe, and Appling’s man all over him when he went to get essentially a handoff from AT, Appling immediately put himself in a spot where he was trapped by the sideline & midcourt line, and the M defender closing the open space.
Appling needs to be aware of where he is on the court, and move into the backcourt, to allow AT to lob a high pass over the defender to Appling, who can then bring it up. Instead, Appling put himself in a terrible spot, and when the defender knocked loose the ball, ended up turning it over on an over& back when he touched it. Bad, bad play, especially coming out of a timeout.
that was par for the course
they were mostly bad on set plays coming out of timeouts
UM scored on at least 2 plays coming out of timeouts down the stretch.
It was a bad timeout IMO, it left 9 sec on the shot clock against a pretty good halfcourt D.
I know TT was having a rough night but it might’ve been better to let that play out.
Actually, I’m not sure why they didn’t bring Green up top and let him initiate the offense.
Both PG’s struggled and Green was being doubled hard in the paint.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
A few takeaways after some sleep
1. The trend would be that we now win our next 15 before losing 2 more! Sadly I think that means a 1st round tourney exit and starting next season with a loss.
2. We’re still a better team than most anyone expected this season.
3. We only scored 59 points, so the fact that we had a chance to win in the final seconds is a positive.
Also
It seems like this team executes better in the half court offense and gets better shots than recent previous years.
However, they don’t seem to execute set plays out of time-outs as well as previous teams. In previous years, I would have expected us to win coming out of the last time out last night. Last night I didn’t really expect it. In fact the play probably turned out better than I was actually expecting…..
Execution out of a timeout
That used to be one of Izzo’s & MSU’s staples, drawing up & executing to perfection plays out of a time out. Not just this season, but the past few, it seems like that advantage has completely gone away. I don’t know the reason why, I just know that’s how it’s happened.
29 and 0
29 points out of 5 starters and as far as I can remember 0 points in transition. Rebound all you want, but if those boards don’t turn into easy buckets, they don’t mean much.
One transition bucket would have made this game completely different.
Appling pretty much got every one of his 1st half buckets in transition.
Am I missing something?
by The Birchman on Jan 18, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
not transition
To me, Appling beating three guys off the dribble out in front of four of his teammates isn’t transition. This wasn’t even the secondary break. I think you have to have at least even numbers if not be a mismatch 3 on 2 or something for it to count as transition.
Neither Appling nor Green had good games
and that pretty much is the ballgame. Burke pretty much schooled Appling – his final line was 20 points on 8 of 11 shooting and 3 assists (vs 3 turnovers) with an overall offensive rating of 135. Appling was primarily responsible for checking him – maybe help wasn’t coming when it was supposed to but Burke had a great game. Appling’s final line was less impressive – 4 turnovers and 10 points on 5 of 12 shooting. U of M has some kind of anti-Green mojo. He grabbed his share of boards but he turned it over 5 times vs 3 assists and shot 3 of 8 for 7 points. He didn’t once get to the line.
I’m really surprised looking at the stat line that we were even in this game. Offensive rebounding saved us. We shot OK too, especially from distance – we were 46% from three but it wasn’t enough to get us the win. They had a slightly higher effective FG rate than us though, so as good as we shot we let them shoot better. Overall our defense wasn’t up to snuff for stretches of the game, though it did improve after half time.
We turned it over too much and didn’t get to the line at all. FT rate has been a net positive for us in most games, but it’s the least important of the four factors (IMO) because it’s reliant on how the game is called, and how the other team plays D. I thought some of the charging calls on us could have been no-calls or gone the other way, but I don’t recall thinking that U of M was getting away with stuff on the defensive end – they just played solid D. Overall I don’t think the officials had a major impact on the game. We were only called for 12 PFs ourselves so it wasn’t like we were sending them to the line all the time – the refs let them play – either that or it was a very cleanly played game. They were just a little better last night.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 18, 2012 10:24 AM CST reply actions
I think this was a 50/50,
toss-up type of game, and it went to the team that executed a little better. Home court helps, too, if this same game was played at the Breslin, I think it goes the other way.
Burke owned us. Nix owned them in the paint, they couldn’t do anything to stop him all night. He’s too big & strong for them, the only player that can stop him would seem to be Jordan Morgan, who had a terrible game. I’m concerned that they’ll stick Jon Horford all over Nix in the next game (JH should be back in another week or so).
I don’t understand why Izzo didn’t put Green down low more, Novack was bodying him up hard when he did go down low to deny the ball, but Green is taller, longer, stronger, and more athletic than Novack, and should have been able to get the ball over the top. Had he been getting it on the block, he is talented enough to turn & score, and adept enough a passer to kick it to the open shooter on the perimeter if he’s being doubled/tripled.
Payne needs to learn to be able to catch the ball high, turn & put it up. He often looks like he has cement blocks as hands, and has a lot of trouble when he can’t put the ball on the ground and then grab it with both hands. U-M knew this, and was harassing him all night when he got it down low. Remember how good Andre Hutson used to be with getting it low and putting up a shot, without having to put the ball on the ground? If Payne could learn that skill, he can be a monster.
I think they must have been doing a good job of helping Novak by
denying the post entry pass to Green. There is something about their scheme that forces Green out of his comfort zone. I’m sure they were trying to exploit that mismatch, so the only explanation is U of M was doing something to keep it from happening.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 18, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Novak was using leverage to keep Green from getting position
as I recall, though I’m sure they were helping with other players, too. But was able to get low & keep his hips under Draymonds, which made it really difficult fro him to establish himself.
Off the ball screens may have helped to free up Green, but with M packing the lane so much on D, it would have really started to make it crowded down there.
in the last 2 games
the opponent has been the better defensive team
you might buy that if the opponents were Wiscy and OSU not NW and UM
that has to change but won’t be easy with PU coming to town
they still play “in your shirt D” and have owned Breslin the last 2 trips
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
It's hard to say that NW was a better defensive team
When you look at the stats – they still gave up 74 points at home, in a 64 possession game – an oRating of 115.6 is not good D at home. I guess what I’m saying is, MSU was the WORSE defensive team that night (if that makes sense).
true
but MSU had more bad possessions on offense even though they scored 74 which should win most conference road games
NW seemingly had no trouble scoring so they were better on both ends basically
By the same token, UM only scored 60 or whatever the final tally was and 4 of those should’ve never happened but MSU seemed to struggle more on offense.
"Long range from the baseline, Swish!"
Yeah you're right that
Scoring 74 at NW, and holding M to 60 at their place, should be enough to win both.
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 11:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Post game comments
In his postgame comments Izzo said that Nix and Payne’s conditioning were a problem. I can understand Nix with the extra weight he is carrying, but why wouldn’t Payne be properly conditioned at this point in the season?
After the game, why not check out www.zazzle.com/donnierocky*
Maybe it's just a genetic thing with Payne.
Maybe the lung capacity just isn’t there and never will be. Who knows if he’s ever been in crazy good shape where he can go hard for long periods of time. My guess is that in high school he never has to really go all out for prolonged periods of time simply because he was so much taller/more athletic than everyone he played again. I don’t think we’ve ever seen any evidence during his time at MSU that suggest he is capable of going hard for long stretches.
I often hear about how Payne is a freak athlete
As a matter of fact, Dakich & Tirico brought up that point more than once in last night’s broadcast. I had no idea that conditioning is an issue with him, I always thought it was just a hoops skills issue.
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 11:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That Payne needed a breather last night
has me a little worried about our conditioning program. He only played 14 minutes. I can understand someone getting gassed if the pace is high and they’re playing major minutes, but not being in condition to play more than 14 minutes in a slow-paced game is pretty unacceptable. Nix played 20+ – still not a ton of minutes but significantly more than Payne and he’s carrying around a lot of weight.
by TheCrestedHelm on Jan 18, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
A little less than 24 hours later
And while I’m still unhappy about the outcome, its time to look forward. This team: 1) has exceeded nearly all reasonable preseason expectations to date, and 2) still controls its own destiny in the B1G race.
At this point, I wonder if a shake up in the starting lineup makes sense? Dawson is 8th on the team in minutes, and continues to look more passive on both ends of the floor. Does it make sense to start AT? He’s playing the best hoops of his college career right now, and if nothing else, starting games with BD on the bench may take some pressure off of him.
I think Payne could benefit from the same treatment, but unfortunately, with Roe & Sherm both off the team, that’s not an option. He & Nix are the only two real bigs on this team with any experience, and I don’t think Green can play more than a few minutes/game as a true 4, except against really small teams. Gauna hasn’t shown much in his limited minutes so far. Nix seems to be excelling in his role off he bench, and with the momentum he has, I say don’t mess with it.
I do think BK has shown a lot, and frankly expect him to continue taking Trice’s minutes. TT looked fantastic in the non-con season, but has simply disappeared in B1G play.
by MSUDersh on Jan 18, 2012 5:15 PM CST via mobile reply actions
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