BriefCap - Indiana 70, Michigan State 55: Five Steps to Getting Over a Loss
by Pete Rossman on Feb 28, 2012 8:56 PM CST
in Michigan State Spartans Basketball
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Welp, that wasn't good. What are the five steps you ask?
- Keep repeating this mantra: "Michigan State has at least a share of the Big Ten title. Michigan State has at least a share of the Big Ten title. Michigan State has at least a share of the Big Ten title." Just because they might share it doesn't make it any less true.
- Draymond Green played every bit like the player of the year candidate he is. 29 points on 10-17 shooting, 3-6 from three, and 8 rebounds. Yes he had 6 turnovers, but as he was the only effective scorer for MSU tonight, you have to take that when the rest of the offense is sputtering.
- Speaking of the rest of the offense -- 10-34 for field goals, which drops to 7-30 when you take away Austin Thornton's contributions. Call me an optimist, but I don't think Dawson, Payne, Nix, Wood, Appling et al. won't shoot 23.3% on Sunday.
- They'll be a bit more energized and be able to guard OSU. Oladipo drove by MSU defenders at will seemingly, I think the four day rest will restore some zip to those legs.
- Gary Harris did this to win a playoff game:
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Step 6
Avoid all Detroit media until Sunday. Don’t pick up a Detroit News. Don’t pick up a Free Press. Don’t check their online headlines. For God’s sake, don’t turn on Don Shane on Channel 7. Their glee will only make you furious.
Step 7: Get to the Breslin on Sunday ready to contribute to the result the way the Indiana fans did tonight.
Why would the Detroit Media be gleeful
They recognize that MSU grads make up a huge chunk of their reader base. I do notice a UM bias in football, but Basketball’s always pretty straight methinks
Maybe the newspaper guys.
Not the TV or Radio folks. Even WJR, our freaking flagship station,is overrun with Wolverines whose only compliments to Michigan State are backhanded ones.
Apparently you don't listen to Mike Valenti lol
I agree that Sports Radio is filled with homers like Doug Karsch and Matt Shepard, but people like Gator Anderson (who went to LCC and is a State fan), Valenti, Terry Foster, Pat Caputo, etc are certainly NOT Michigan homers.
Way I see it no matter where you go in the state Walmart Wolverines are everywhere. You have to filter your sources, i.e. the reason I love Mike Valenti is that he’s hardest on his own team but he’s also fair to everyone else.
I don't live in MI anymore
But of course, will never forget Valenti, if just for his rant after the ND football game several years ago during the dark years.
I listen occasionally online, but it’s a lot easier for me to check the papers online & on my phone, and there is no question that the papers – specifically, the Freep, News, & MLive, have a heavy U-M bias.
MLive, which claims to be the “State of Michigan” newspaper, only recently added a Lansing section, and the only MSU coverage came from a Grand Rapids beat writer! Also, the Freep & News are littered with M homers, especially Rosenberg & Snyder (and I graduated HS with one of them, trust me, he was as big a db M homer then as he is now).
If nothing else, Valenti does a good job trying to point out the biases. From what I recall, he’s especially critical of things like the February B1G titles (football recruiting), he advocates the position that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that the players who are recruited to places like M, tOSU, Bama, etc., automatically get increases in their ratings, because of the schools interested in them, which leads to artificially inflated class rankings.
the Lansing State Journal
specifically Joe Rexrode, is a good option for MSU sports coverage.
http://noise.typepad.com/hey_joe/
Absolutely
Love both LSJ coverage, and Hey, Joe! (though he gets a lot of really, really douchery trolls in the comments, so I rarely post or even read the comments there).
If you can make it, his Thursday morning chats are great, too.
Valenti is not someone to be proud of
Nor is he ever worth listening to.
"The open threads on game days are like fevered dreams: Everyone is hammered and then shit gets burned." - Truffle Shuffle
by The Ghost of John Hannah on Feb 29, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
Valenti is pure shock jock
he’s a Spartan, but his opinions change with the winds, and many of his “opinions” are purely to help get ratings.
his claim to only follow his teams “if they are interesting” is pretty b.s. in my mind. sure if all you want is to be entertained, but I wouldn’t call yourself a fan at that point.
Shepard is an insufferable ass
Just saying.
Tonight's going to be a good night.
by Spartalytical on Feb 29, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
respectfully disagree
the Illinois game was far more putrid than this stinker.
why yes, I'm slightly drunk at the moment
by Mark in Chicago on Feb 28, 2012 9:15 PM CST reply actions
Yea, this one doesn't bother me like other losses might or should
Indiana played very well, and while we didn’t seem to try to slow that down with our matador defense. I don’t hate them like Wisconsin or Michigan. To me Illinois is a worse loss because we were both impotent.
Close out the season with a W and this loss doesn’t sting so much. Lose Sunday at home and I think we all feel a little less confident in our March into April. Let’s hope it’s the former.
With Wisconsin's win over Minnesota
we have clinched the #1 seed in the Big Ten tournament. So we’ve got that going for us, which is nice.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Hypothetical
If OSU loses to NW (eliminating their hopes to win a B1G championship), and Michigan beats ILL (keeping their hopes alive), how hard do you think OSU will play against MSU in East Lansing, given the fact that if they’d win, they’d give UM a share of the B1G?
I'm not sure the OSU fans would agree...
If the shoes were reversed (MSU and OSU), I’d personally rather lose and get a lower seed then give UM a chance to win a share of the B1G.
Fans aren't playing.
The guys who will be playing won’t care.
by rook34 on Feb 28, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't.
If I were in that situation, I’d rather be one game behind them (and the co-champions) than two (and three behind the champions). Regular season titles are nice, but not so much that I’d want to lose to deny it to a rival even if we were already eliminated – a win means a higher seed and a better chance at hanging some nicer banners.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Fans have the liberty of thinking rediculous things like this
Not to overstate the obvious but players play to win. They aren’t thinking about whether a win helps their rival or not.
I respect people having opinions about whether they would root for UM in a situation when it would help us. But I would never, ever, root for an MSU loss regardless of how it impacts Michigan. That is taking the Michigan obsession way, way too far.
by trivialstuff16 on Feb 29, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I love MSU (and feel the opposite about U-M athletics), but in no scenario would I ever pull for my team to lose, no matter what the reprecussions are for our rivals.
Exactly, Exactly
It doesn’t matter the scenario, you can’t cheer for your team to lose. It’s disrespectful to the other team and more importantly, it’s disrespectful for all the fans in attendance/watching the game on tv.
Also,
If my team’s rival winning helps my team in the standings, I pull for the rival to win. Never cheer for another team to lose if that loss hurts my team (that distinction is reserved for fans of Chicago pro sports).
Only as a last resort, though.
If there are six ways to win the title and Michigan winning is one of them, I won’t root for them unless the other five ways have failed first.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
True that
Fortunately, in football, this is unlikely come up – M has the protected, end of season rivalry game with tOSU, who obviously is in the other division. So unless them winning that game elevats them into a 3-way tie for first with MSU & someone else, and then the tiebreakers give MSU the division crown, I won’t root for them then.
Worst performance?
Not even close.
Did you see the Illinois “game”?
Disappointing of course but not unexpected.
IU is good. Outstanding at home.
Everybody Loves Draymond
+1
Got outplayed by a very good Top 20-level team in their building, which ohbytheway just happens to be one of the best arenas/crowds/atmospheres in college basketball.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
by Ducking Delvon on Feb 29, 2012 7:54 AM CST up reply actions
Two more positives
8 minutes from Trice, and lots of playing time for Nix. Good to see those two are on the mend.
Yep
And in my opinion, Trice didn’t look a step behind, which was pretty impressive.
he made a nice move to the basket early in the game
He didn’t convert, I can’t remember if he got blocked or just altered the shot because of the trees, but after that, seemed tentative. I really wish he could have converted that, and used it as a confidence buidler.
Keith Appling and Our Outside Shooting is a Problem
needs to regain confidence in his perimeter shot. Too many times he passes up wide open shots from the outside, and other teams are beginning to relax their outside defense on him. WIthout an outside threat, defenses can protect the paint and force turnovers (see tonight).
Every aspect of our game is very good, but for the outside shooting. That needs to change or we can forget another Final Four appearance.
Thoughts?
Guard play is a HUGE problem right now
We’re just not getting any production out of Appling and Wood has struggled with consistency (he airballed a freaking free throw last night!). The timing of Trice’s injury couldn’t have been worse, as it coincided with Appling’s slump. Which means we didn’t even have the option of resting Keith or letting him play off the ball for a while. But all of our points now are coming inside and from DayDay (plus the occasional Thornton jumper). We got away with it a little bit recently, but it’s going to be difficult to keep winning that way.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
by Ducking Delvon on Feb 29, 2012 8:06 AM CST up reply actions
Totally agreed
If this team is going to do anything in March, the guards must step their play back up.
I haven’t looked at the numbers yet, but I know that Appling was putting up close to 14 ppg, Wood was over 9 ppg, and even Trice was over 6 ppg, through the non-con & early B1G season.
Couple things.
1. I respect the hell out of MSU. I like Izzo. Seemingly every year that the B1G is having a ‘down’ year and the national media is spending all it’s time giving HJs to the ACC you guys step up and go to the final four and represent the B1G well. I appreciate that. MSU wins and wins the right way.
2. IU got the benefit of the calls tonight (albeit not anything ridiculous IMO. I’d call it standard for a B1G home game). I read through your game thread and didn’t see anyone flipping out about how you would’ve won if not for the refs. Major props. You gave credit where credit was due. Fans of most schools (Purdue and OSU come to mind) see a few calls go against them and blame everything on the refs and never admit that their team was outplayed. You didn’t do that. Again, major props.
3. Green is a beast. You knew that already. Moving on…
4. I wish IU had a shot at the B1G title, but since we don’t I’m glad you’re getting it. Just don’t let O$U have a share of it. That’d piss me off. Seriously, screw O$U.
5. I get the sense that you’re all pretty level-headed and that you aren’t freaking out about this loss but if you are, don’t. The VAST majority of the time visitors just don’t win in Assembly Hall. Except for Minnesota. But we played like crap that game and they played pretty well. But I digress. You’ll win your last one and will get your 2 seed (MAYBE a 1?). I just mean to say that this win helped us a lot more than it hurt you.
6. Good luck going forward. Maybe we’ll see you again in the B1G tournament or the Dance, but if not, rep the Big Ten well and we’ll see you next year.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Feb 28, 2012 10:39 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Luck to you as well.
The only teams I really hate in the Big Ten are Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin (basketball only). Everyone else, I want to see do well (just not against us).
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Hatred for Wisconsin is reaching new heights for me.
It wont ever be at Michigan levels of hate, but that kind of hate is different. I definitely have begun actively rooting for Wisconsin to lose everything possible (and in as painful a manner as possible for revenge for what we felt after the Big Ten CCG) but it stops there. The hate for Michigan is… different.
"The open threads on game days are like fevered dreams: Everyone is hammered and then shit gets burned." - Truffle Shuffle
by The Ghost of John Hannah on Feb 29, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
I know exactly what you mean
Michigan hate is deep, it’s primal, it’s coded into our DNA. The Wisconsin hate is something new, more of a reaction to the games/outcomes/coaches of the last 10+ years.
"It was worth it. Every needle, every dose of medicine that I've taken. That's why you play the game. A chance to be on a Final Four team, a chance to win championships." Delvon Roe
by Ducking Delvon on Mar 1, 2012 7:55 AM CST up reply actions
OSU, Purdue, and Illinois.
It’s funny that if you asked every fan of a B1G team which 3 teams they dislike the most pretty much every one of them outside of the OSU fans will include OSU in their 3. Togetherness!
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Feb 29, 2012 7:57 AM CST up reply actions
Right on
Although I actually don’t dislike OSU for some reason. I don’t know why because I do think they are dirty at times, and their fans are almost as bad as Wolverines at times but I just enjoy seeing them rep the B1G I guess. But I want to see UM and Wisc fall on their ass every game.
I actually cheer for IU when they don’t face us, as well as Minnesota, because I like the coaches and I think they are honest programs. Props to the above hoosier for being respectful and awesome.
by Loneytunes on Feb 29, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you there
Well, on cheering for Minny & Indiana, I have a strong dislike for tOSU.
I try to like Purdue, I really do, but seems like their fanbase (both those I personally know, as well as ones I’ve interacted with online) seems very douchey.
For some reason, I like Iowa hoops, too, really wish they could have beaten the Illini on Sunday, that loss puts them in a spot where the only way they’re dancing now is by winning the BTT.
Props to Indiana
They played a great game with a ton of energy and made shots. We just went 4-1 during a tough 13 day stretch and were able to clinch at least a share of the Big Ten title. I’ll take that.
A 5 day break is exactly what we need right now. Our guys will definitely be ready to play Sunday against Indiana.
Sunday
I feel good about our prospects. I expect the crowd to be alive, Draymond (and Thornton) to be pumped and to perform at a high level. Players should be rested and injuries healed, and the importance of the game for the outright title and NCAA seeding should ensure complete focus. Hopefully Payne will bring the performance he saves for Ohio State.
The next time this team steps on the floor at Breslin, it will be with new leaders. That will be a significant change. For better or worse, Appling is going to have to emerge as one of those leaders. (Will Nix be the other?) Sunday would be a great time to emerge from his shooting funk and show that he is ready to take over the reins next year.
Leadership
Good point on next year’s leaders. I just don’t see Appling emerging as a leader. Just does not seem to have that personality. Nix, maybe, I’d certainly like to see that leap. Does Trice have an outside chance at stepping up? Seems like he has confidence and could be a good leader. It would be hard for a sophomore to take that spot. Overall, could be a team with more talent, but less leadership. Hope that does not turn out like it did in 2010-2011.
Trice as a possibility
I thought about him as a leader, but I think it might be more subtle next year – as a part-time playing sophomore, it may be a stretch to be a primary leader. I think one of the difficulties the team had last year was in the seniors accepting Draymond as a leader, even though they didn’t have leader-like personalities. Perhaps it will be different on next year’s team as the players appear to be a tighter-knit bunch.
Nix
I still believe that Nix will emerge as a more vocal leader, it seems like his dedication to the program this season shows signs of maturity, and hopefully he’ll be willing to carry the leadership flag for the team next season.
I also agree that Trice down the road, and maybe even Denzel after him – both are considered to be high IQ players, they’re the sons of coaches, and both have games that are centered more around playmaking and setting up others, rather than creating for themselves.
I've heard that Kearney is apparently quite vocal...
wouldn’t surprise me to see him being a bit of a team leader next year.
That would be sweet
Even though Izzo always compares him to Steve Smith (and if he’s Smith the Second, that will be amazingly awesome), but I could see him emerging as a taller but less muscular Travis Walton – a shut down defender and leader who rarely makes mistakes on offense, and doesn’t score a ton but shoots a good percentage because he’s very selective with his shot.
+1
I wouldn’t discount Keith though.
It’s easy for him to fall into the role of follower because leadership is so strong this year. Next year he may open up in Green’s absence and will hopefully talk to him as much as Green’s schedule allows. Maybe the much rumored Canada trip will help he and all other leader candidates get a early jump on navigating the ship.
What I really hope Keith does is go to a Chris Paul or Steve Nash camp or something and learn how to get where he wants on the floor more efficiently. That kid loves to dribble.
And oh yeah, work on that jumpa.
Everybody Loves Draymond
From linking laconically above
it looks like Appling is just worn out because he has to be the go-to guy on the perimeter on both ends of the floor. We do need to start getting more from our backcourt somehow. Green was fantastic last night but didn’t get much help from anyone else. It would have been nice to get the W, but it was the least bad loss of the 3 teams still in title contention. Better to lose on the road to Indiana when you already have a share of the title sewn up than:
A) lose to Wisconsin on your home floor with a shot at the outright title on the line, or
B) lose on the road at Purdue to lose any chance at an outright title.
by TheCrestedHelm on Feb 29, 2012 12:03 PM CST reply actions
Actually...
…B) should read “get blown out at home on Senior Day to lose any chance at an outright title.”
Technically, both OSU and UM were still playing for a share of the title at the time
But yeah, still embarrassing for both parties involved.
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